Why and how people insist it requires minmaxing?

[Trialist]

Sorry for possible mistakes, not my language. Discussion of new patch with nerfs made me feel some very heretical emotions. It's okay for anyone to dislike challenge, don't read boring stuff in their own instrument of joy and prefer relaxation. But instead of addmitting their preferences people left and right accuse others of hardcore fanatical minmaxing by guides! Surprisingly many insist that you have to minmax in Rogue Trader and employ some specific techniques that you wouldn't guess without a guide to succesfully play...

You don't have to minmax in this game to become OP. You have to try really hard to avoid becoming OP. When every single one possible build and combination of characters guarantee that you'll have someone one-shotting bosses on first turn - it is not minmaxing. Most random abilities you click would get you to this result. And because you have so much level-ups that you even have to pick up leftover skills you never wanted - you inevitably would train all the right ones and fall into one unstoppable tactic or the other.
Every single member of the crew inevitably becomes an imbalanced monster.

At some point I even restricted myself, like some people suggest right now, even though it doesn't feel natural or right to do in game. I left my officer, Cassia and Idira with their aoe-spread-telepathy in cover and send Argenta to fight. And Argenta also destroyed enemies with one bullet spray. I tried to look at Pasqal at fight - and Pasqal became machine of death. Even without damn ancient plasma rifle that multiplies all damage by Int (Int itself, not modifier, by hundreds of times). With that rifle he also one-shotted bosses. Heinrix? Destroyed whole regiment of elite late-game enemies with single wide swing of his sword. All on daring difficulty - and I am no hardcore player or great tactician, and I never read any guides on this.

I read only descriptions of skills and items. If you don't read descriptions of skills and items - well, that's your choice and right. Unless you start to insult all others as exploiters, cheaters, egotistical hardcore minmaxers and dishonest guide-lovers, while you cry and scream at objectively easy Rogue Trader. How? Why? It's completely normal to not be professional with something meant for casual fun. But when you agressively insist that you in fact are professional, all good and impressively competent, and we are the ones who are strange and prone to workarounds... Now, that makes it really tempting to insult you back and say what I think about people who call THIS game too hard for nerfs. How can you have such mentality, that when you can't beat non-functional boss with your visibly overpowered team - you don't doubt yourself, but suspect others in some tricks?

And yes, to answer peculiar question: "Why nerf single player game? Bots complained for being killed?" Because even if single playing shooter it breaks all immersion and destroys all pleasure when enemies literally blow up around you even when you try to miss! That's the damn level of local combat difficulty, you guys. Balance isn't only important in competition, it's also important when you can't have a single bossfight and never saw half of the skills because there were no chance or reason to use them even with hardest settings! One thing - when everyone can play with their preferred challenge, and unneeded nerfs unreasonably take fun from someone. The other thing entirely - when game is actually broken, challenge is absent, everything works in God Mode you can't turn off, and nerfs needed for this to function.

[Tobi89]

Personally I just find it fun to make strong and whacky builds. So while it might be stupid min-maxing is something enjoyable because then I've been able to push the most out of the character creation system and made something powerful. I am also quite competetive which might be another reason but I also often install mods that makes the game harder because of this.

Like for instance in their other game WOTR the enemies for the most part aren't really that powerful in mid to late game instead they just have a ton of buffs on them so if you just dispel the buffs a lot of them becomes weak, which again makes the fight easier which I don't enjoy, but I also enjoy finding the way to make them weaker and me crushing them because that is me figuring out that making the buffs dissapear makes them pushovers so it's a bit of a contradiction :D

In this game I don't mind what their doing but I think a lot of people are sad that the builds they've worked on to be OP are now getting nerfed into the ground because the devs didn't really play test enough and honestly often times the people play testing the games don't really build "optimal" builds with what is available or think about what would happen with certain skills or effects, if you pushed them as far as possible.

[stax]

Originally posted by Tobi89:

Personally I just find it fun to make strong and whacky builds. So while it might be stupid min-maxing is something enjoyable because then I've been able to push the most out of the character creation system and made something powerful.

Absolutely. But what is the point of making a strong and whacky build that does 1000 damage instead of 100, when the enemies have 10 hitpoints at best?

There needs to be a base challenge to overcome, otherwise i might as well go read a 40K book instead. Fun is not rolling over a boss encounter, fun is running into the encounter, getting the floor wiped by said boss, thinking on a whacky build, testing it, and THEN rolling over the boss encounter.

The game as it currently is just does not present any challenge to test your whacky builds against unless you shoot yourself in the foot in some way (limiting yourself to 4 characters, leaving Cassia home, banning killing edge from your game etc. etc. - done it all).

[CornBreadtm]

I like seeing big numbers. And 1 tapping bosses that just got done giving really over the top monologues.

I don't think you need to min-max. But I don't think its very fun to be ignorant. And if you aren't ignorant you are likely min-maxing cause you are constantly trying to learn, which leads to optimization.

Cause you can go through the game with the starting gear. Or you can look at each new piece of gear and try to figure out how it would best be used and on what classes. That second option? It leads to min-maxing. And it's a lot of fun.

[xShapelessx]

I hate following guides and maybe thats why i suck at videogames but I never min max. I choose abilities that I think would be cool. I like custom characters

[xShapelessx]

Originally posted by stax:

Originally posted by Tobi89:

Personally I just find it fun to make strong and whacky builds. So while it might be stupid min-maxing is something enjoyable because then I've been able to push the most out of the character creation system and made something powerful.

Absolutely. But what is the point of making a strong and whacky build that does 1000 damage instead of 100, when the enemies have 10 hitpoints at best?

There needs to be a base challenge to overcome, otherwise i might as well go read a 40K book instead. Fun is not rolling over a boss encounter, fun is running into the encounter, getting the floor wiped by said boss, thinking on a whacky build, testing it, and THEN rolling over the boss encounter.

The game as it currently is just does not present any challenge to test your whacky builds against unless you shoot yourself in the foot in some way (limiting yourself to 4 characters, leaving Cassia home, banning killing edge from your game etc. etc. - done it all).

Im getting destroyed by this electro priest arorua thing so idk about that.....

[stax]

Originally posted by xShapelessx:

Originally posted by stax:

Absolutely. But what is the point of making a strong and whacky build that does 1000 damage instead of 100, when the enemies have 10 hitpoints at best?

There needs to be a base challenge to overcome, otherwise i might as well go read a 40K book instead. Fun is not rolling over a boss encounter, fun is running into the encounter, getting the floor wiped by said boss, thinking on a whacky build, testing it, and THEN rolling over the boss encounter.

The game as it currently is just does not present any challenge to test your whacky builds against unless you shoot yourself in the foot in some way (limiting yourself to 4 characters, leaving Cassia home, banning killing edge from your game etc. etc. - done it all).

Im getting destroyed by this electro priest arorua thing so idk about that.....

Wait till you encounter the final chapter 1 boss. That one had me scratching my head for quite a while ;)

But the real OP broken stuff the player can do does not come into play until later in the game. Chapter 1 is still relatively tame.

[Tobi89]

Originally posted by stax:

Absolutely. But what is the point of making a strong and whacky build that does 1000 damage instead of 100, when the enemies have 10 hitpoints at best?

There needs to be a base challenge to overcome, otherwise i might as well go read a 40K book instead. Fun is not rolling over a boss encounter, fun is running into the encounter, getting the floor wiped by said boss, thinking on a whacky build, testing it, and THEN rolling over the boss encounter.

The game as it currently is just does not present any challenge to test your whacky builds against unless you shoot yourself in the foot in some way (limiting yourself to 4 characters, leaving Cassia home, banning killing edge from your game etc. etc. - done it all).

True I mean doing 2 500 000 dmg against the last boss with a single attack on hardest difficulty who only has like 20 000 hp is kinda overkill. Still it's fun to see :D

To be fair the only times I got "crushed" in the game was against the boss in act 1, he litterly killed 2 or 3 of my characters before I could even do anything or the jungle ambush and well the one time I got ambushed in my living quarter alone by like 5 demons + 20 cultists. My sanctioned psyker focused on buffs/debuffs was not built to survive that encounter. Outside of that I could pretty much steamroll most encounters