Dogmatic response here makes zero damn sense (minor spoiler)

[Capt. Slappy]

How is 3 not the dogmatic response, especially after what happens to these servitors.

Im trying to be as dogmatic as can be and the only thing I could see being a serious devotee in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ universe is to trash the bots due to possible heresy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3178850243

[Moffin Bovin]

I think its because seeing servitorization as penance for a crime means seeing it as justified.

Lobotomizing someone and turning them into a mindless slave is one of the most inhumane and horrific things that the Imperium does. Being like, "this is too spoopy. maybe it's daemons? idk? maybe we should get rid of them just to be safe" doesn't have the same level of dedication to the Imperium as, "It doesn't matter if these people might still have remnants of their consciousness. What the Imperium has done to these people is RIGHT and they must continue to serve."

The Imperium is more than just "Chaos bad. Daemons bad."

[jonoliveira12]

To be fair, both 2 and 3 would both be Dogmatic choices. Destroying tools of potential heresy, or keeping the servitors working to pay for their previous crimes, would both fit imperial dogma.

[Ash]

^this
There are several situations in the game where "to deliver an Emperor's Mercy" means to kill someone as quick and painless as possible. While in most of the cases it can be seen as justified (like finishing off someone who is suffering and cannot be saved quickly enough, like those tech-priests in the Cenobium reactor room), the opposite could be seen as the epitome of imperial cruelty - someone is servitorized for a crime, those servitors' parts were tried by the tech-priests and they weren't found wanting, so... no mercy for them.

[Moffin Bovin]

actually, the concern over servers acting up being heresy probably isn't even a concern about daemons at all. But rather the realisation that servitors are human. That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.

Destroying the servitors so that word doesn't get out, to cover up the evidence, is a tacit admission that people have a valid reason to have these doubts.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

actually, the concern over servers acting up being heresy probably isn't even a concern about daemons at all. But rather the realisation that servitors are human. That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.

Destroying the servitors so that word doesn't get out, to cover up the evidence, is a tacit admission that people have a valid reason to have these doubts.

Not all heresy is related to Chaos. The servitors picking up alien tech signatures, for example, wouyld label them tools of xeno-heresy.

There are tons of types of heresy, it is just that daemonic one is the most dangerous and prevalent, by far.

[Ash]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

... That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.
...

I have a feeling that for some of the more zealous adherents of the Imperial Creed that wouldn't be a problem. "What, they still have consciousness after servitorisation? Serves them right. And the rest of you - fear and repent, or this will be your fate as well".

I mean, Arco-Flagellants are a thing.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Ash:

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

... That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.
...

I have a feeling that for some of the more zealous adherents of the Imperial Creed that wouldn't be a problem. "What, they still have consciousness after servitorisation? Serves them right. And the rest of you - fear and repent, or this will be your fate as well".

I mean, Arco-Flagellants are a thing.

that's what i'm saying. that's why it does make sense for "It doesn't matter if they are still human. put them back to work" is the dogmatic option.

Whilst destroying them so to cover up that its possible servitors are still aware on some level is kind of admitting "maybe what we do here is wrong, but we can't let people get that idea." can just as easily be seen as not that dogmatic at all.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

Originally posted by Ash:

I have a feeling that for some of the more zealous adherents of the Imperial Creed that wouldn't be a problem. "What, they still have consciousness after servitorisation? Serves them right. And the rest of you - fear and repent, or this will be your fate as well".

I mean, Arco-Flagellants are a thing.

that's what i'm saying. that's why it does make sense for "It doesn't matter if they are still human. put them back to work" is the dogmatic option.

Whilst destroying them so to cover up that its possible servitors are still aware on some level is kind of admitting "maybe what we do here is wrong, but we can't let people get that idea." can just as easily be seen as not that dogmatic at all.

Destroying them because they are compromised by heresy, like the text indicates, would also be in line with dogma.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

that's what i'm saying. that's why it does make sense for "It doesn't matter if they are still human. put them back to work" is the dogmatic option.

Whilst destroying them so to cover up that its possible servitors are still aware on some level is kind of admitting "maybe what we do here is wrong, but we can't let people get that idea." can just as easily be seen as not that dogmatic at all.

Destroying them because they are compromised by heresy, like the text indicates, would also be in line with dogma.

It doesn't say they are compromised by heresy. it says it could "spell heresy". Meaning heresy (as in people turning their back on the Ecclesiarchy OR just the Imperium itself since the God Emperor is the head of state, and therefore the will of the state is the will of god.) could spread from this event.

Its been a while since i played but if i recall correctly this part mostly just focuses on that the servitors seem to retain some of their humanity. And the xeno tech part comes up at a later point in the story.

edit: also, i just want to point out that i didn't give you that jester and i feel like that was uncalled for.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Destroying them because they are compromised by heresy, like the text indicates, would also be in line with dogma.

It doesn't say they are compromised by heresy. it says it could "spell heresy". Meaning heresy (as in people turning their back on the Ecclesiarchy OR just the Imperium itself since the God Emperor is the head of state, and therefore the will of the state is the will of god.) could spread from this event.

Its been a while since i played but if i recall correctly this part mostly just focuses on that the servitors seem to retain some of their humanity. And the xeno tech part comes up at a later point in the story.

edit: also, i just want to point out that i didn't give you that jester and i feel like that was uncalled for.

I do not care about the jesters.
Negative rewards is a stupid concept.

[Capt. Slappy]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Destroying them because they are compromised by heresy, like the text indicates, would also be in line with dogma.

It doesn't say they are compromised by heresy. it says it could "spell heresy". Meaning heresy (as in people turning their back on the Ecclesiarchy OR just the Imperium itself since the God Emperor is the head of state, and therefore the will of the state is the will of god.) could spread from this event.

Its been a while since i played but if i recall correctly this part mostly just focuses on that the servitors seem to retain some of their humanity. And the xeno tech part comes up at a later point in the story.

edit: also, i just want to point out that i didn't give you that jester and i feel like that was uncalled for.

You're stretching with the cover up thing. In the scene the servitors were acting with human like characteristics but they were also acting in a mocking manner too. All of them were mimicking the exact movements of the lord captain for a little bit. That sent demonic heresy signals off like no tomorrow for me, especially so since this scene happens very soon after the opening of the game. Demonic possession is beyond a reasonable suspicion considering what happened.

I feel like it would have been heresy to try and sweep their actions under the rug and put them back to work. The purge/cleansing option feels like it fits the dogmatic route so much better here.

[Aristocratic Cthulhu]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

actually, the concern over servers acting up being heresy probably isn't even a concern about daemons at all. But rather the realisation that servitors are human. That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.

Destroying the servitors so that word doesn't get out, to cover up the evidence, is a tacit admission that people have a valid reason to have these doubts.

This is actually widely known knowledge, there's no covering up anything here.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Aristocratic Cthulhu:

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

actually, the concern over servers acting up being heresy probably isn't even a concern about daemons at all. But rather the realisation that servitors are human. That the idea that a servitor might still retain some of its humanity, trapped in its own mind and unable to speak out could instil doubt in the practices of the imperium and as such instil doubt in the will of the Emperor.

Destroying the servitors so that word doesn't get out, to cover up the evidence, is a tacit admission that people have a valid reason to have these doubts.

This is actually widely known knowledge, there's no covering up anything here.

except its not.

There's even a part of a quest in this game where an old man wants to sacrifice himself to save his daughter that has been turned into a servitor some time ago. The servitor is damaged and is due to be decommissioned and he wants to offer himself up as spare parts. You have the option to explain to him that his daughter is gone and his sacrifice will mean nothing to a servitor. His response is something along the lines of "i know. but i don't care. shes still my daughter."

Jae even refers to the daughter as a "soulless tin can."

Servitors are supposed to be removed of their humanity and be just humans turned into robots. They are not supposed to be "aware".

[Aristocratic Cthulhu]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

Originally posted by Aristocratic Cthulhu:

This is actually widely known knowledge, there's no covering up anything here.

except its not.

There's even a part of a quest in this game where an old man wants to sacrifice himself to save his daughter that has been turned into a servitor some time ago. The servitor is damaged and is due to be decommissioned and he wants to offer himself up as spare parts. You have the option to explain to him that his daughter is gone and his sacrifice will mean nothing to a servitor. His response is something along the lines of "i know. but i don't care. shes still my daughter."

Jae even refers to the daughter as a "soulless tin can."

Servitors are supposed to be removed of their humanity and be just humans turned into robots. They are not supposed to be "aware".

Correct, they are not SUPPOSED to be aware, provided the lobotomy process wasn't messed up/no warp ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is abound. Also, using the desires of a dying, desperate old man to save his daughter no matter how pointless of an action it may be to support your claim is hardly the best course of action.

The Imperium at large makes no attempts to hide that servitors can have their conciousness reemerge if something goes wrong.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by Aristocratic Cthulhu:

Also, using the desires of a dying, desperate old man to save his daughter no matter how pointless of an action it may be to support your claim is hardly the best course of action.

Even a poor old man willing to sacrifice himself over a servitor understands that there is no chance that his daughter is still in there. Its an example of the kind of person that you would expect to have some hope that some of their daughter remains and even he has no hope of that, and completely understands that she is gone.



turning someone into a servitor is monstrous enough. But its a kind of execution. The person is gone and their husk is repurposed. Enough of their brain remains that a computer can interface with their motor functions and operate like a robot.

If the person is still in there and still aware then that completely changes things. To be sentenced to spend decades trapped as a passenger in your own body while a machine works you like a puppet makes the most sacrifice happy daemon worshipping look like child's play.