Is Heinrix supposed to resurrect party members?

[Milliman4|]

My Heinrix has a biomancy stuff, which lets him heal the team member with the lowest HP if he himself is at full HP. This actually brings back party members who are already downed with 0 HP, up to around 10 HP. Is this intended? I couldn't see anything that indicates this?

[tempest.of.emptiness]

I haven't come across that staff. It seems very powerful, so I wonder if it might be doing something it isn't supposed to do. Does the description indicate that it can bring a downed character back up? If not, it might not be intended, because that's the kind of thing you would want to put in an item description of an item that would do it.

[Milliman4|]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

I haven't come across that staff. It seems very powerful, so I wonder if it might be doing something it isn't supposed to do. Does the description indicate that it can bring a downed character back up? If not, it might not be intended, because that's the kind of thing you would want to put in an item description of an item that would do it.

It's any biomancy staff I equip on him. I mean it does kind of work as it says, but I am unsure if it is supposed to revive fallen mates too.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3157584518
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3157583464

The way I read those two, the interaction should be that allies at zero wounds are no longer considered "wounded allies" and are instead considered "unconscious allies", and thus should not be considered by Syphon Life when choosing where to redirect the healing effect. My guess is that the game is not making the necessary checks to enforce that situation, which is why you are bringing back characters that should be out of the fight.

So, I'm fairly certain that this is a bug.

[Taifun_Vash]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3157584518
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3157583464

The way I read those two, the interaction should be that allies at zero wounds are no longer considered "wounded allies" and are instead considered "unconscious allies", and thus should not be considered by Syphon Life when choosing where to redirect the healing effect. My guess is that the game is not making the necessary checks to enforce that situation, which is why you are bringing back characters that should be out of the fight.

So, I'm fairly certain that this is a bug.

The divination tree has an ability that can void a ko shot/slash, it would give your psyker an extra turn in which he can use it if something happens to one of the characters. But that should be the only ability that works like that,

[=DeadShot=]

With the biomancy powers should be able to resurect people. Like in BG3 you can heal from 0 hp companions.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Taifun_Vash:

The divination tree has an ability that can void a ko shot/slash, it would give your psyker an extra turn in which he can use it if something happens to one of the characters. But that should be the only ability that works like that,

That's a very special situation, in which your Diviner is effectively intervening in the moment just before the character drops. The intent is not that they are bringing the character back, but that they are preventing them from falling to begin with. So I don't consider this an example of resuscitating someone at zero health, even though limitations in the developer's implementation of the ability might make it look like that is what is happening.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by =DeadShot=:

With the biomancy powers should be able to resurect people. Like in BG3 you can heal from 0 hp companions.

The developers could have designed the game that way if they wanted, but according to their own description of unconsciousness they deliberately chose not to do so. Different games have different rules, and being able to do something in a different game by a different developer using a different game system and different rules doesn't really say a lot about how this game should work.

[=DeadShot=]

And I think some biomancy powers allow to resurrect people. Not everything needs to be spelled out.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by =DeadShot=:

And I think some biomancy powers allow to resurrect people. Not everything needs to be spelled out.

We aren't dealing with a case of something not being spelled out, and we aren't dealing with a case of a biomancy power that resurrects people.

We are dealing with a case where something is spelled out (unconscious characters cannot be resuscitated, see screenshot above) and an item that is supposed to just heal wounded characters (per its description, see screenshot above) is violating what is written.

As I said, the developers could have made it possible for an item (or biomancy powers) to resuscitate unconscious characters. Perhaps they even intended for this item to be an exception to that general rule. However, if that was their intent, they would need to change the description of either unconscious (to show that resuscitation is possible), or the item (to explicitly state that it is an exception to the general rule about being unable to resuscitate unconscious characters), or both.

The point is that - regardless of whether you agree with me that this item should not be able to bring back characters who fall unconscious - there is a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers.

[Taifun_Vash]

There is also 1 or 2 trinkets which allow that and Ulfar can't get taken out, but all others should stay unconscious

[Edu Furiano (bora coop games)]

Well, there is that Cassia's "rewind time" spell that could theoretically bring back anyone befallen. I havent tested it yet. Sometimes I miss the possibility to bring up befallen companions, so a RNG reload wouldnt be mandatory.

[Edu Furiano (bora coop games)]

Originally posted by Taifun_Vash:

There is also 1 or 2 trinkets which allow that and Ulfar can't get taken out, but all others should stay unconscious

Well (spoiler) that "defensive stance" in Ulfar seems to make him close to unbeatable. Shall test those stances with other characters, that is something that I havent given much attention, I do admit. I was playing more focused on bust sinergies.

[SuperBritishQuokka]

Originally posted by =DeadShot=:

With the biomancy powers should be able to resurect people. Like in BG3 you can heal from 0 hp companions.

I do not get why you bring up bg3 since it has a totally different ruleset

[Taifun_Vash]

Originally posted by Edu Furiano (twitch:furiano_tv):

Originally posted by Taifun_Vash:

There is also 1 or 2 trinkets which allow that and Ulfar can't get taken out, but all others should stay unconscious

Well (spoiler) that "defensive stance" in Ulfar seems to make him close to unbeatable. Shall test those stances with other characters, that is something that I havent given much attention, I do admit. I was playing more focused on bust sinergies.

Defensive stance is just that good, it's the one thing I always take with Abelard. But Ulfar or Argenta is also untouchable with Cautious Approach in the Arch Militant tree.

[LArc7thHeaven]

The day you get ulfar is the day that abelard retired as party tank, aside from his main con that he's treated as "Big" on grid (cost 4 grid) and limit his mobility, you give him heavy bolter and switch to melee + bolt pistol before end you turn