Is this game according to 1st ed lore or modern 40k lore?

[Darzai]

I can't tell from the store page.

[a2008]

neither its based on the rt ttrpg which is set lore wise in the 2010-2015 which is neither 1st or 10th ed its a mix of lore from 6th ed till 2015. ie the golden age of warhammer lore . newer stuff by matt ward and others since is much lower quality , less grimdark.

[Darzai]

Originally posted by Mako Kilo:

Originally posted by meatmaaan:

where does this "it was never satire" narrative even come from... its been confirmed multiple times by GW it was always satire
edit: i'd also say a lot of the Grim Dark goes full circle and becomes dark comedy too

Satire suppose to be funny by mocking atcual RL situations.

While i dont have of a better word for it, i can tell its no satire.

I mean you could call these bad puns, but puns they are nevertheless : Ghaz'gul Mag'Uruk Thraka , Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, Kruellagh the Vile, Sly Marbo etc.

I agree that the setting is probably not created as a satire. But there are definitely satirical elements in og. Rogue Trader. Kind of like with Discworld from Terry Pratchett. Story first, but with some satirical elements.

As a whole I see 1st ed. more like a campy exaggerated scifi in the 70s and 80s style. Using all the existing fantasy/scifi tropes and crank them up to max. But it also makes fun of 80s hooligans, autocracy, bureaucracy in a typical British satirical style. Cultural and political topics from the 80s. That is why I prefer to say tongue-in-cheek instead of satire. It doesn't take itself that seriously.

This is also why I prefer early 40k, because modern grimdark 40k has been made so serious , that it is unintentionally funny to me for all the wrong reasons. (And somehow that pisses of fans if that is pointed out :p).

If anyone watches Tom and Ben's Warhammer streams ( Yogscast ). They love Warhammer (40K), but look at it in the same way as I do. They can enjoy good Warhammer lore, but at the same time are relentless about the unintentionally funny parts. Like Ferrus Manus.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally posted by Darzai:

I agree that the setting is probably not created as a satire. But there are definitely satirical elements in og. Rogue Trader.

40k has always been satire. It was created as black comedy and satire from the get-go.

Terry Gilliam's film 'Brazil' is another example. It is a satirical black comedy, but not a film you're likely to laugh out loud at.

[Ajax Durango]

Look into Fantasy Flight Rogue Trader.

[Darzai]

Originally posted by Kid Gloves:

Originally posted by Darzai:

I agree that the setting is probably not created as a satire. But there are definitely satirical elements in og. Rogue Trader.

40k has always been satire. It was created as black comedy and satire from the get-go.

Terry Gilliam's film 'Brazil' is another example. It is a satirical black comedy, but not a film you're likely to laugh out loud at.

I don't think that Rick Priestley and Andy Chambers set out to create a satire. The original Rogue Trader is too incoherent for that. It is just some background for races in a game made with some typical british humour. That is why I said satirical elements.

Maybe you meant to respond to someone else, but I never claimed that satire always has to be laugh out loud funny. But satire is made on purpose. Like your example Brazil.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Mako Kilo:

Originally posted by Eight-Six:

Define and characterize satire. Don't google it, tell me how you define it.

Someone making fun about something. Or sarcasm if you like that better.

That's not satire.

Satire is taking a concept and running with it to its logical conclusion to demonstrate what is wrong with the concept.

Classic satire example: A Modest Proposal.

It was a book mocking the British attitude towards the Irish potato famine.

The text of the book, however, proposed butchering Irish children and selling them as food to British landlords.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Ajax Durango:

Look into Fantasy Flight Rogue Trader.

Isn't it kind of difficult and expensive to find books for that these days?

[Corridian]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by Ajax Durango:

Look into Fantasy Flight Rogue Trader.

Isn't it kind of difficult and expensive to find books for that these days?

Cubicle 7 has the distribution rights for the FF material and you can purchase the hard cover books or PDFs from them. They would rather you buy Wrath and Glory, which is junk by comparison, but is their own attempt at the IP.

Drive-Thru RPG also has the PDFs for sale. Often at a discount.
I have complete copies of all the FF Warhammer 40k materials they published for each game. It is quite a lot of cash I spent back when I got them all. I think the prices are somewhat lower now.
(this includes all of the titles from Dark Heresy (Inquisition) to the Imperial Guard, Chaos, and Death Watch Space Marines.... and of course Rogue Trader)
I also have the hardcover materials I meant to say.

Wrath and Glory is an attempt to turn the 40K wargame into a ttrpg. Conceptually no problem, but they re-invented the wheel and should have just used the FF materials that were hand delivered to them. The setting of Wrath and Glory is garbage however.
Peace!

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Corridian:

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Isn't it kind of difficult and expensive to find books for that these days?

Cubicle 7 has the distribution rights for the FF material and you can purchase the hard cover books or PDFs from them. They would rather you buy Wrath and Glory, which is junk by comparison, but is their own attempt at the IP.

I was about to ask if Wrath & Glory was a reband of Rogue Trader, because I can't find RT books on Cubicle 7's website at all.
PDFs from Drive-Thru is all well and good, but I much prefer the real thing in my hands. I've only been able to find the physical books on Ebay for tall dollars. : \

[=DeadShot=]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by Corridian:

Cubicle 7 has the distribution rights for the FF material and you can purchase the hard cover books or PDFs from them. They would rather you buy Wrath and Glory, which is junk by comparison, but is their own attempt at the IP.

I was about to ask if Wrath & Glory was a reband of Rogue Trader, because I can't find RT books on Cubicle 7's website at all.
PDFs from Drive-Thru is all well and good, but I much prefer the real thing in my hands. I've only been able to find the physical books on Ebay for tall dollars. : \

No Wrath and Glory is 4th iteration of a 40k RPG. Rogue Trader RPG is the 2th iteration of a 40k RPG.

[REhorror]

This whole satire thing is funny because it reminds me of the situation of Alan Moore and Rorschach.
Alan Moore: Rorschach is a right wing lunatic doo doo head, you aren't supposed to LIKE him!!! Like my gay aryan superman Ozzy instead, he so smart.
Watchmen fans: Yo, how about no?

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by REhorror:

This whole satire thing is funny because it reminds me of the situation of Alan Moore and Rorschach.
Alan Moore: Rorschach is a right wing lunatic doo doo head, you aren't supposed to LIKE him!!! Like my gay aryan superman Ozzy instead, he so smart.
Watchmen fans: Yo, how about no?

... You know you aren't supposed to like Ozymandias, either, right?

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by REhorror:

This whole satire thing is funny because it reminds me of the situation of Alan Moore and Rorschach.
Alan Moore: Rorschach is a right wing lunatic doo doo head, you aren't supposed to LIKE him!!! Like my gay aryan superman Ozzy instead, he so smart.
Watchmen fans: Yo, how about no?

... You know you aren't supposed to like Ozymandias, either, right?

Yep, and nearly nobody likes him.

But people LIKE Rorschach, and that's a problem for Alan Moore.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by REhorror:

This whole satire thing is funny because it reminds me of the situation of Alan Moore and Rorschach.
Alan Moore: Rorschach is a right wing lunatic doo doo head, you aren't supposed to LIKE him!!! Like my gay aryan superman Ozzy instead, he so smart.
Watchmen fans: Yo, how about no?

... You know you aren't supposed to like Ozymandias, either, right?

It's difficult to like a guy whose plan to save the world is dropping giant alien squids on it. : p

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

... You know you aren't supposed to like Ozymandias, either, right?

Yep, and nearly nobody likes him.

But people LIKE Rorschach, and that's a problem for Alan Moore.

You should probably rethink how you frame that, then?

But yeah, all you've done is highlight that every story is capable of having... Shall we say, misaimed fandom.