*Spoilers/Possible Bug(s)* Saving Player led Resistance in Chapter 3, possibly gated by improper Redeemed condition. FIXED

[Balekai]

*BIG UPDATE: As of the June 26, 2024 this appears to have been corrected. I loaded a save without Toy Box, one kill away from Nocturne dialogue in Act 3 after last arena fight. ComissarRedeemed flag was not artificially activated with Toy Box in this save (checked today with new version of Toy Box). The dialogue option "Bring my comrades who previously served the Commissar from the Chasm." now appears without the erroneous ComissarRedeemed flag. If it was the Dogmatic Commissar option would have appeared along with it. It didn't.

Further more when I checked the dialogue previews with Toy Box, that dialogue now checks that the ComissarRedeemed flag is NOT playing. Rather than the opposite.

So enjoy rescuing Sergeant Vigastes and the honourable rebels as Iconoclast, and having Vigastes on your Bridge in Chapter 4. JUST MAKE SURE you pick the neutral "They like me -- Simply Actors" option thereafter to actually save them. Very important :p :P

Thanks Owlcat.* :)

*Edit: I was able to get the Resistance led by Vigastes ro show up in a cargo ship in Chapter 4, by bypassing the now confirmed faulty ComissarRedeemed condition on one of the dialogues. See posts below. /edit*

I have been wondering why we don't have an option to save our Commorragh resistance fighters as non Votary Dogmatic, and also without redeeming the Commissar. It doesn't make sense that we go through all the trouble of saving Sergeant Vigastes as say Iconoclast, promising to save them all, and turning them into a proper fighting force, only to forget about them completely and leave them behind with no ability to ask Nocturnal about them (unlike redeeming the Commissar path).

There's also some buggyness around the arena fights this way too, as the resistance fighters never show up. Not to mention the bugs around sending Commissar and Malice to the Pit at the same time (a definite bug too). This made me suspicious that something more was missing here and more importantly so.

So I looked into it more to see if it was possible other than via the dogmatic Votary Commissar redeeming path. After hours of research it basically came down to no: Only the Dogmatic option to redeem Commissar gives you the chance to save anyone. Or Malice's Shriekers if you killed the resistance. Again, that doesn't seem right.

Some flags, etudes, and conditions to define first before I get truly started. This is all based on research online and my own research in-game personally with Toy Box:

Malice = Anger

Comissar = Roaring (I think) and Comissar flags/etudes

Nocturne of Oblivious (Harlequin) = Zanni

Resistance Fighters/Commissar's People = Resistance/Resistants

Chasm base of operations owner = PitOwner. Who owns it is Malice (by Default with no special flag here it seems), Commissar (PitOwnerRoaring) or you/resistance (PitOwnerResistance).

Saving Commissar with Nocturne/Harlequin dialogue after 3rd Arena Battle + fight right after = etude RoaringSaved, which is attached to the two dialogues that allow you to ask Nocturne to save the Resistance. "Bring the Commissar and his people from the Chasm" and "Bring my comrades who previously served the Commissar from the Chasm."

Saving the Resistance with Harlequin = This etude activates right after those two above options when you to pick the Neutral option ("They still have their part to play or whatever like me"), which under Nocturne's poetic dialogue thereafter you will see Unlock Flag (ResistanceSaved to 1) and an etude started called (ResistantsSaved) with Toy Box. Conviction responses lead to Prisoners/Resistance/whatever being turned into Weapons (Dogmatic) or killed (Iconoclast) with their own flags/conditions that don't matter for this topic.

Now I don't know if this happens when you have a legit redeemed Commissar playthrough, but in order to do some quick testing I activated the (ComissarRedeemed) flag right before I got to the dialogue options with Nocturne to "Thank him" for his help etc. after 3rd Arena battle + battle right after. In an Iconoclast or non Commissar redeemed run you only get the default options to continue with the plot. When I activated this redeemed flag the two options to save the resistance showed up for me.

What is very suspicious is that if there's only one way to save the resistance, then why are their two dialogue options? They also seem quite different:

- "Bring the Commissar and his people from the Chasm"
Show Condition(Etude ComissarRedeemed status is: Playing; , Etude ArenaFaithEnding status is: Notstarted; , Not Etude EmptyPit status is: Playing;

- "Bring my comrades who previously served the Commissar from the Chasm."
Show Conditions(Not Etude EmptyPit status is: Playing; , Objective (OBJ1B_KillAnger [EscapeChasm_quest] is Completed), Etude ComissarRedeemed status is: Playing;

Also and more importantly BOTH can be chosen one after the other (bug). Even picking different responses/etudes. You can end up with two of the three save people options (like picking the Dogmatic option that turns them into weapons and/or Iconoclast to kill them and/or neutral to save them) . Very suspiciously buggy on the faulty conditions front and not preventing dualing choices.

What I think has happened here, is that the option to save the Resistance when the RT is the leader of the Resistance base (with Malice/Commissar imprisoned, executed, freed or sent to the arena), has been improperly locked behind a faulty (ComissarRedeemed) condition/flag.

"Bring my comrades" should have instead of the ComissarRedeemed flag, had another check for another quest objective like the attached OBJ1B_KillAnger [EscapeChasm_quest] check, but for the Commissar. That way it would only show up for someone who took out both Malice and Commissar one way or the other and the rebels were in control of Chasm.

Right now it just mimics the first and badly. It also shows the RoaringSaved pop up (although just because something pops up in Toy Box dialogue previews, doesn't mean it actually activated that flag/etude. For example if Achillies is dead you will see a whole bunch of stuff on him being alive etc. which is just not the case. That only happens if you got rid of Yrliet in chapter 2).

What I did for my game, was temporarily activate CommissarRedeemed flag then deactivated it after getting the save choices to show up. Then I picked "Bring my comrades" and the neutral option thereafter. Tomorrow I will maybe see what happens after I complete the Chapter. Maybe see if there's any content going forward that doesn't include Commissar but saves resistance fighters. Or if the Commissar magically shows up anyways. The former would suggest that other paths were supposed to have a save resistance option with Nocturne. If the latter happens, it suggests that the option to save people outside of the Commissar redeem option was not implemented on release. Intentionally or unintentionally.

That was a very long read, but this is one of those possible oversights that's complicated and needs to be set out completely, or else a whole portion of game content might be missing from a few dialogue issues that are really hard to spot. Impossible for anyone playing without Toy Box and experience with etude previews etc.

[angelraid]

Damn thanks for this, Was part way through CH4 before I realized I didn't know what happened to these guys then it really started to bug me. Thanks for figuring all this out. Guess I am replaying several hours :P

[Balekai]

Originally posted by angelraid:

Damn thanks for this, Was part way through CH4 before I realized I didn't know what happened to these guys then it really started to bug me. Thanks for figuring all this out. Guess I am replaying several hours :P

Like I mentioned earlier I just had to (not really) redo all Chapter 3, because I forgot to go back and scan/explore Santiels Pride in Chapter 2. I had it in my mind there was a bug there in Beta or something so I left it and kept exploring post release lol.

It literally has 0 impact on the game whether you scan/explore it before Chapter 3 I think, but i'm an OCD completionist and was afraid I lost one planet scan too lol. Much less of an impact than say the Resistance+Vigastes showing up or not showing up, which if I read things correctly on other topics, Malice and/or Commissar get ending slides. So Vigastes who also has an ImportantNPC flag may actually have one too if true.

Edit: Also as a side note, I updated the OP to mention right off the bat, that it seems confirmed that the condition on the second option is an error, and i was able to get Resistance+Vigastes to show up in Chapter 4 by bypassing the ComissarRedeemed flag temporarily.

[Golden_Duke]

Do you get anything for saving them? People as resource, items, points in iconoclast?

[=DeadShot=]

If i knew and wasn't bugged, I would have tried to save them.

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

Do you get anything for saving them? People as resource, items, points in iconoclast?

You get a NPC on the bridge I think, like the navigator quest that if you take them onboard gives you a navigator NPC. And satisfaction to save your own people.

[Kekuy]

How dafuq do you save Vigastis?
All I had was seeing him on board of some DE Raider being basically dead and Argenta has an option to relieve of him of his misery(mercykill), and that's it.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

Do you get anything for saving them? People as resource, items, points in iconoclast?

You get Vigastes and it says you get a cargo resource in dialogue preview. I'm guessing another stack of People cargo.

Originally posted by =DeadShot=:

If i knew and wasn't bugged, I would have tried to save them.

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

Do you get anything for saving them? People as resource, items, points in iconoclast?

You get a NPC on the bridge I think, like the navigator quest that if you take them onboard gives you a navigator NPC. And satisfaction to save your own people.

Yep and like I said earlier, Vigastes hangs around said Navigator if you saved him too by Idira. He's about 5 feet from them.

Originally posted by Kekuy:

How dafuq do you save Vigastis?
All I had was seeing him on board of some DE Raider being basically dead and Argenta has an option to relieve of him of his misery(mercykill), and that's it.

To save Vigastes in the Arena you need to choose the Iconoclast Votary option and perform some gunfu on the Engine of the platform, and Vigastes miraculously survives the crash (Conviction warp luck stuff going on here like Orks/Sisters of Battle lol). If you don't have enough Iconoclast rep points you can't save him. If you're Dogmatic Votary than redeeming the Commissar is the way to go. In that case Vigastes is a dead man.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

Do you get anything for saving them? People as resource, items, points in iconoclast?

You get Vigastes and it says you get a cargo resource in dialogue preview. I'm guessing another stack of People cargo.

Originally posted by =DeadShot=:

If i knew and wasn't bugged, I would have tried to save them.



You get a NPC on the bridge I think, like the navigator quest that if you take them onboard gives you a navigator NPC. And satisfaction to save your own people.

Yep and like I said earlier, Vigastes hangs around said Navigator if you saved him too by Idira. He's about 5 feet from them.

Originally posted by Kekuy:

How dafuq do you save Vigastis?
All I had was seeing him on board of some DE Raider being basically dead and Argenta has an option to relieve of him of his misery(mercykill), and that's it.

To save Vigastes in the Arena you need to choose the Iconoclast Votary option and perform some gunfu on the Engine of the platform, and Vigastes miraculously survives the crash (Conviction warp luck stuff going on here like Orks/Sisters of Battle lol). If you don't have enough Iconoclast rep points you can't save him. If you're Dogmatic Votary than redeeming the Commissar is the way to go. In that case Vigastes is a dead man.

Now that IS ridiculous, I can see why they bug out that part.

[Kekuy]

Originally posted by Balekai:

To save Vigastes in the Arena you need to choose the Iconoclast Votary option and perform some gunfu on the Engine of the platform, and Vigastes miraculously survives the crash (Conviction warp luck stuff going on here like Orks/Sisters of Battle lol). If you don't have enough Iconoclast rep points you can't save him. If you're Dogmatic Votary than redeeming the Commissar is the way to go. In that case Vigastes is a dead man.

Never had the option, only had options to just leave or tell Argenta to mercykill him, even tho I was rank 3 Icono.
But at least now I know why all this weird stuff happened when my MC was like Neo "Nope, you can't kill me" all those times.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Balekai:

/snip

Now that IS ridiculous, I can see why they bug out that part.

Well I "kind of" overstated it. It's just one shot, but a very lucky shot and everyone else but Vigastes including the Drukhari on top die pretty easily.

Originally posted by Kekuy:

Originally posted by Balekai:

To save Vigastes in the Arena you need to choose the Iconoclast Votary option and perform some gunfu on the Engine of the platform, and Vigastes miraculously survives the crash (Conviction warp luck stuff going on here like Orks/Sisters of Battle lol). If you don't have enough Iconoclast rep points you can't save him. If you're Dogmatic Votary than redeeming the Commissar is the way to go. In that case Vigastes is a dead man.

Never had the option, only had options to just leave or tell Argenta to mercykill him, even tho I was rank 3 Icono.
But at least now I know why all this weird stuff happened when my MC was like Neo "Nope, you can't kill me" all those times.

Hmm weird it should have popped up, maybe they recently patched it in? Anyways I though I would show some pics:

Initial Dialogue:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198010398692/screenshot/2265940681620762351/
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198010398692/screenshot/2265940681620770685/

Vigastes on ship:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198010398692/screenshot/2265940681620660003/ *Ignore the glorious T-posed dead Servitor, another bug.* :D

[Golden_Duke]

I did not have Argenta in my party (only Yrliet, Heinrix, Abelard, Pasqal, Cassia) and never saw any Vigastes. When are you supposed to see him, is it during your first arena fight when Malice/Comissar tricks you?

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

I did not have Argenta in my party (only Yrliet, Heinrix, Abelard, Pasqal, Cassia) and never saw any Vigastes. When are you supposed to see him, is it during your first arena fight when Malice/Comissar tricks you?

Ah there in lies the problem I think. Argenta is the one who spots Vigastes hanging from the floating platform (first arena fight). It's also Argenta whp helped Vigastes and others find the Commissar in the first place if you bring Argenta to the Dark City.

No Argenta = Vigastes probably never joined up with the Commissar until later or died even before that. In short: You need to bring Argenta to Chapter 3 to get Vigastes to show up and be Iconoclast to save him, and lastly until an update is done, mess around with Toy Box to get him in Chapter 4.

[Golden_Duke]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

I did not have Argenta in my party (only Yrliet, Heinrix, Abelard, Pasqal, Cassia) and never saw any Vigastes. When are you supposed to see him, is it during your first arena fight when Malice/Comissar tricks you?

Ah there in lies the problem I think. Argenta is the one who spots Vigastes hanging from the floating platform. It's also Argenta whp helped Vigastes and others find the Commissar in the first place if you bring Argenta to the Dark City.

No Argenta = Vigastes probably never joined up with the Commissar until later or died even before that.

Well, it's sad to miss something simply because you did not have one companion at one time. I guess I'll just skip all this resistance saviour part then since I'm not even dogmatic and don't really want to tinker with toybox. Thanks for the info.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Golden_Duke:

Originally posted by Balekai:

Ah there in lies the problem I think. Argenta is the one who spots Vigastes hanging from the floating platform. It's also Argenta whp helped Vigastes and others find the Commissar in the first place if you bring Argenta to the Dark City.

No Argenta = Vigastes probably never joined up with the Commissar until later or died even before that.

Well, it's sad to miss something simply because you did not have one companion at one time. I guess I'll just skip all this resistance saviour part then since I'm not even dogmatic and don't really want to tinker with toybox. Thanks for the info.

No problem. :)

[Balekai]

BIG UPDATE: As of the June 26, 2024 this appears to have been corrected. I loaded a save without Toy Box, one kill away from Nocturne dialogue in Act 3 after last arena fight. ComissarRedeemed flag was not artificially activated with Toy Box in this save (checked today with new version of Toy Box). The dialogue option "Bring my comrades who previously served the Commissar from the Chasm." now appears without the erroneous ComissarRedeemed flag. If it was the Dogmatic Commissar option would have appeared along with it. It didn't.

Further more when I checked the dialogue previews with Toy Box, that dialogue now checks that the ComissarRedeemed flag is NOT playing. Rather than the opposite.

So enjoy rescuing Sergeant Vigastes and the honourable rebels as Iconoclast, and having Vigastes on your Bridge in Chapter 4. JUST MAKE SURE you pick the neutral "They like me -- Simply Actors" option thereafter to actually save them. Very important :p :P

Thanks Owlcat. :)

[Fallsnowday]

I thank you for your work