Cassia Overpowered? ;)

[Z405]

Hello fellow 40k enthusiasts,

I'd like to open a discussion on a topic that appears quite evident from the title of my post. Nevertheless, I'm genuinely intrigued to explore whether my assumption resonates universally or if there might be diverse perspectives among us. It's plausible that certain characters could be perceived as under powered by some while others might argue that their supposedly overpowered status is essential, especially when navigating more challenging scenarios, particularly on the Unfair difficulty setting.

Speaking more personally, I've noticed that utilizing Cassia has somewhat lessened the challenge level, particularly when leveraging her Navigator power "Held in my Gaze" alongside an Officer's "Finest Hour," a Stim that grants +4 AP, and the Master Tactician ability "Press the Advantage." While one could suggest to possibly forego certain abilities or enhancements, I believe a more measured approach might involve re-balancing Cassia's abilities overall.

On a similar note, employing a well-constructed Heavy Bolter build with Argenta as an Arch-Militant led to swiftly dismantling a Forgefiend within a single turn on Unfair Difficulty. This experience made me ponder the presence of potential balancing issues, and I suspect there might be even more potent, yet undiscovered, overpowered builds.

Looking forward to your replies.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Tozobi:

First Owlcat game? Just kidding.
They have a history of requiring very specific builds for you to murderhobo enemies in one or two turns, lest they wipe you in their first turn(s). This is less pronounced here, as it is easier to build something that kills everyone in the first turn than in previous games, but as ever, you either build something that makes encounters trivial, or build something different and gimp your run.

Despite purchasing Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, I found myself not dedicating a substantial amount of time to it due to the release of BG3, which I've been engrossed in for an extended period. Consequently, this marks my first foray into an Owlcat game. I've come across information suggesting that their games often encounter numerous bugs upon launch, but typically, these issues are resolved over time, which I hope holds true for this title.

My primary intention was to immerse myself in a genuinely challenging experience, given that BG3 lacked that aspect. I had hoped that the finely adjustable difficulty settings would provide this, and to some degree, they do; encounters either become overwhelming or remarkably easy based on specific character builds. However, even with less optimal builds, I've observed that most battles tend to lean towards the relatively easy side, except for sporadic spikes in difficulty.

[Z405]

Originally posted by rorek55:

Cassia is an excellent buffer/debuffer, not the best "carry"

Could you provide more details? From my observations, Cassia tends to deal the most damage in my gameplay. Her "Held in my Gaze" ability always hits and boasts a reasonable critical hit chance based on the talents chosen. Moreover, her considerable Willpower growth enables her to inflict substantial damage. I'm curious to know which companions you believe surpass her to such an extent that you've relegated Cassia solely to the role of a buffer/debuffer.

[badger vortex]

leave here alone, she's perfect how she is :(

[Leeroy]

The problem is not Cassia being OP, you can do the same with Arch-militant heavy bolter character and have him 1-turn every boss encounter.
The problem is officers stacking extra turns on a single character. If extra turns could only be used once per round on any given character, it would make this stacking less OP.
But then I doubt some encounters will be beatable at all with their current design philosophy (Uralon and his steroid brothers who get 6 turns worth of actions before you even have a chance to do anything, almost always resulting in your party being wiped out before your turn)

[Z405]

Originally posted by badger vortex:

leave here alone, she's perfect how she is :(

That situation ends up highlighting imperfections in other characters by comparison. Her damage output potential stands unrivaled compared to others, and her hits are guaranteed, leaving no room for failure. While I don't mind her formidable strength, this necessitates enemies having larger health pools, further accentuating the inherent weaknesses of most other companions.

Originally posted by Leeroy:

The problem is not Cassia being OP, you can do the same with Arch-militant heavy bolter character and have him 1-turn every boss encounter.
The problem is officers stacking extra turns on a single character. If extra turns could only be used once per round on any given character, it would make this stacking less OP.
But then I doubt some encounters will be beatable at all with their current design philosophy (Uralon and his steroid brothers who get 6 turns worth of actions before you even have a chance to do anything, almost always resulting in your party being wiped out before your turn)

Your points don't really dispute the idea of Cassia's overpowering abilities. Instead, they shed light on another problematic aspect that might not be widespread among most players. Typically, the average player forms a party with the provided companions, usually limited to three Officers at most, including the main character. Consequently, the scenario of assembling a party primarily composed of Officers to amplify Cassia's or any Heavy Bolter-wielding Arch-Militant's abilities might not resonate with the majority. This significantly reduces the additional turns a companion can gain, diminishing the perceived overpowered status compared to what was initially portrayed.

While granting the Heavy Bolter-equipped companion 4 AP through the twice-cast "Bring it Down" ability indeed boosts their offensive capabilities, Cassia's "Held in my Gaze" ability, coupled with her inherent Navigator buffs and guaranteed hits, elevates her utility beyond others, highlighting the core issue—especially when combined with the mentioned boons in the initial post. In comparison, a Heavy Weapon burst tends to cost 2 AP and still carries a hit chance. Cassia might require 3 turns to eliminate that same target, but she can subsequently use the remaining AP to effortlessly deal with other adversaries without any risk of missing.

It appears evident that Owlcat might have overlooked crucial aspects of their combat system, leading to various flaws in combat dynamics. The intermittent spikes of unnecessary difficulty seem to justify these overpowered character builds, inadvertently trivializing most other encounters. Personally, I tend to favor a consistent level of challenge throughout battles rather than encountering these sporadic difficulty spikes. This approach would ensure a more balanced and engaging gameplay experience overall.

[Neoz]

Originally posted by Tozobi:

First Owlcat game? Just kidding.
They have a history of requiring very specific builds for you to murderhobo enemies in one or two turns, lest they wipe you in their first turn(s). This is less pronounced here, as it is easier to build something that kills everyone in the first turn than in previous games, but as ever, you either build something that makes encounters trivial, or build something different and gimp your run.

I'll have you know, my 6 warrior/arch militant "tank" characters laugh at enemies trying to harm them :P

[revan1229]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by rorek55:

Cassia is an excellent buffer/debuffer, not the best "carry"

Could you provide more details? From my observations, Cassia tends to deal the most damage in my gameplay. Her "Held in my Gaze" ability always hits and boasts a reasonable critical hit chance based on the talents chosen. Moreover, her considerable Willpower growth enables her to inflict substantial damage. I'm curious to know which companions you believe surpass her to such an extent that you've relegated Cassia solely to the role of a buffer/debuffer.

Idira and MC Psyker. I still bring Cassia because her damage is still good, and her utility is insane (Owlcat clearly wants you to use her). But the Pyro and Sanctic staves are nuts, and Psykers also get top tier damage passives like Backdraft, Aftershock, and Pain Channeling.

[Neoz]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by rorek55:

Cassia is an excellent buffer/debuffer, not the best "carry"

Could you provide more details? From my observations, Cassia tends to deal the most damage in my gameplay. Her "Held in my Gaze" ability always hits and boasts a reasonable critical hit chance based on the talents chosen. Moreover, her considerable Willpower growth enables her to inflict substantial damage. I'm curious to know which companions you believe surpass her to such an extent that you've relegated Cassia solely to the role of a buffer/debuffer.

the RT and/or Argenta/Idira(potentially)/Psyker MC/companion. I'm not saying Cassia isn't strong, and early on in act 1/early-mid act 2 she IS really good as a carry, but in act+ enemies hp starts to go exponential. Usually, with my Arch mil RT I'm ending combats before round 1 finishes, So far before Cassia really gets rolling for damage. Same with my assassin Sniper RT.

[Al3x!el]

There are a lot of unbalanced things in the game on the other hand it could be just me not understanding all the skills available because the explanations are overcomplicated for me. There was a eldary trap in the Jungle were all of my team got about 1-2 shot in the first round exept the tank build (wich is just unkillable) and the spacemarine (who is unkillable too somehow) .. all other players couldnt even start tourn 2 and still those 2 survivers killed all the eldary lol

[Z405]

Originally posted by revan1229:

Originally posted by Z405:

Could you provide more details? From my observations, Cassia tends to deal the most damage in my gameplay. Her "Held in my Gaze" ability always hits and boasts a reasonable critical hit chance based on the talents chosen. Moreover, her considerable Willpower growth enables her to inflict substantial damage. I'm curious to know which companions you believe surpass her to such an extent that you've relegated Cassia solely to the role of a buffer/debuffer.

Idira and MC Psyker. I still bring Cassia because her damage is still good, and her utility is insane (Owlcat clearly wants you to use her). But the Pyro and Sanctic staves are nuts, and Psykers also get top tier damage passives like Backdraft, Aftershock, and Pain Channeling.

Originally posted by revan1229:

Idira and MC Psyker. I still bring Cassia because her damage is still good, and her utility is insane (Owlcat clearly wants you to use her). But the Pyro and Sanctic staves are nuts, and Psykers also get top tier damage passives like Backdraft, Aftershock, and Pain Channeling.

I haven't had the chance to experiment much with a Pyro Psyker. My focus has largely revolved around a Noble Officer as Rogue Trader, leveraging their buffs to maximize my overall strategy. One observation I've made regarding psykers versus Cassia is the inherent risk they carry due to Perils of the Warp (sporadically killing them instantly on Unfair), a threat that Cassia seems immune to, providing her with a certain level of consistency and reliability. Additionally, I've encountered instances where psykers can inadvertently trigger hostile daemonettes, leading to immediate close-combat death, a scenario I haven't experienced with Cassia. These occurrences have somewhat deterred me from fully embracing psykers in my compositions. Yet, Idira is still a mainstay of my retinue.

Idira does boast impressive damage potential, but interestingly, even through Act 3 on Unfair difficulty, Cassia has consistently outperformed Idira in my setups. It's intriguing to witness Cassia's consistent efficacy compared to other characters, further solidifying her value within my strategies.

[BlazingScribe]

I use her, and she's good. But nobody breaks combat like Pasqal does.

Long live the Plasma-bearing disciple. Praise his name or face his judgement of blue fire!

[noobie123]

cassia is fine :P, wait till you see the enemies in act 4/5 with overbuffed stats.

[revan1229]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by revan1229:

Idira and MC Psyker. I still bring Cassia because her damage is still good, and her utility is insane (Owlcat clearly wants you to use her). But the Pyro and Sanctic staves are nuts, and Psykers also get top tier damage passives like Backdraft, Aftershock, and Pain Channeling.

Originally posted by revan1229:

Idira and MC Psyker. I still bring Cassia because her damage is still good, and her utility is insane (Owlcat clearly wants you to use her). But the Pyro and Sanctic staves are nuts, and Psykers also get top tier damage passives like Backdraft, Aftershock, and Pain Channeling.

I haven't had the chance to experiment much with a Pyro Psyker. My focus has largely revolved around a Noble Officer as Rogue Trader, leveraging their buffs to maximize my overall strategy. One observation I've made regarding psykers versus Cassia is the inherent risk they carry due to Perils of the Warp (sporadically killing them instantly on Unfair), a threat that Cassia seems immune to, providing her with a certain level of consistency and reliability. Additionally, I've encountered instances where psykers can inadvertently trigger hostile daemonettes, leading to immediate close-combat death, a scenario I haven't experienced with Cassia. These occurrences have somewhat deterred me from fully embracing psykers in my compositions. Yet, Idira is still a mainstay of my retinue.

Idira does boast impressive damage potential, but interestingly, even through Act 3 on Unfair difficulty, Cassia has consistently outperformed Idira in my setups. It's intriguing to witness Cassia's consistent efficacy compared to other characters, further solidifying her value within my strategies.

Well, that's probably due to how you built them, since you say you focus on them buffing. By Act 3, Idira and MC should have what they need to put out more damage in a short amount of time if you're going DPS with them.

Perils on MC Psyker aren't an issue. Idira with Officers can spam powers and actually benefit from perils (MC can, too, with a certain armor).

[Princess_Daystar]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by badger vortex:

leave here alone, she's perfect how she is :(

That situation ends up highlighting imperfections in other characters by comparison. Her damage output potential stands unrivaled compared to others, and her hits are guaranteed, leaving no room for failure. While I don't mind her formidable strength, this necessitates enemies having larger health pools, further accentuating the inherent weaknesses of most other companions.

Originally posted by Leeroy:

The problem is not Cassia being OP, you can do the same with Arch-militant heavy bolter character and have him 1-turn every boss encounter.
The problem is officers stacking extra turns on a single character. If extra turns could only be used once per round on any given character, it would make this stacking less OP.
But then I doubt some encounters will be beatable at all with their current design philosophy (Uralon and his steroid brothers who get 6 turns worth of actions before you even have a chance to do anything, almost always resulting in your party being wiped out before your turn)

Your points don't really dispute the idea of Cassia's overpowering abilities. Instead, they shed light on another problematic aspect that might not be widespread among most players. Typically, the average player forms a party with the provided companions, usually limited to three Officers at most, including the main character. Consequently, the scenario of assembling a party primarily composed of Officers to amplify Cassia's or any Heavy Bolter-wielding Arch-Militant's abilities might not resonate with the majority. This significantly reduces the additional turns a companion can gain, diminishing the perceived overpowered status compared to what was initially portrayed.

While granting the Heavy Bolter-equipped companion 4 AP through the twice-cast "Bring it Down" ability indeed boosts their offensive capabilities, Cassia's "Held in my Gaze" ability, coupled with her inherent Navigator buffs and guaranteed hits, elevates her utility beyond others, highlighting the core issue—especially when combined with the mentioned boons in the initial post. In comparison, a Heavy Weapon burst tends to cost 2 AP and still carries a hit chance. Cassia might require 3 turns to eliminate that same target, but she can subsequently use the remaining AP to effortlessly deal with other adversaries without any risk of missing.

It appears evident that Owlcat might have overlooked crucial aspects of their combat system, leading to various flaws in combat dynamics. The intermittent spikes of unnecessary difficulty seem to justify these overpowered character builds, inadvertently trivializing most other encounters. Personally, I tend to favor a consistent level of challenge throughout battles rather than encountering these sporadic difficulty spikes. This approach would ensure a more balanced and engaging gameplay experience overall.

I mean outside of my "i wonder if this works" run with Cassia, i tend to form parties of the companions i like. I imagine alot of players do just that too. I cant stand Argenta so i dont use her for example

[Z405]

Originally posted by BlazingScribe:

I use her, and she's good. But nobody breaks combat like Pasqal does.

Long live the Plasma-bearing disciple. Praise his name or face his judgement of blue fire!

I understand your point about the potent combination of the 1 AP return after firing Plasma combined with Finest Hour significantly impacting the battlefield. Nevertheless, it's important to note that despite these advantages, characters like Pasqal still rely on their to-hit chance, whereas Cassia maintains a consistent guaranteed hit rate.

Originally posted by noobie123:

cassia is fine :P, wait till you see the enemies in act 4/5 with overbuffed stats.

Honestly, I've reached the outset of Act 4, yet for some inexplicable reason, I found myself inclined to initiate a fresh start. It might sound peculiar, but that's one of the contributing factors behind why I've invested over 300 hours into this game. I suppose you could say I'm a bit neurotic in that regard, haha. However, circling back to the main point, I would contend that endorsing her excessive power given the overwhelming adversaries in the later acts suggests that the initial acts and the other companions suffer from a lack of balance.