so the space wolves refering to themselves as a chapter

[Rax Savvage]

is just plain weird, they are a legion that never adopted the tenets of the codex astartes. describing themselves as a chapter is wrong from a lore standpoint.
this annoy anyone else?

[Harukage]

They split themselves once. So they are no longer a legion. Regadless of the fact that Wolf Brothers chapter suffered a terrible fate because of the machinations of Magnus.
They also have a new successor chapter Wolf Spear now.
So yes, Space Wolves are a chapter, and they aknowledge it, because logic.

[Normandy117]

Through the founding, they are no longer legion.

[Zsrai]

Of course they call themselves a Chapter now. It doesn't mean they ARE one, just that they say it to keep people off their back. It ain't rocket science.

[REhorror]

I kind of wish we have gotten a Black Templar guy instead.

Yeah I know the Space Wolf beef with the Inquisition and that's probably why they are here, but this Space Wolf dude seems kind of a dummy.

[Harukage]

It must be also said that assets given to Wolf Brothers by their parent chapter: many relic weapons, vechicles and a huge fleet were literally stolen from them after Wolf Brothers were disbanded, and given to other chapters without prior aproval. Only a portion was returned to Space Wolves.

Originally posted by REhorror:

but this Space Wolf dude seems kind of a dummy.

He is literally the smartest and wisest person in our party, aside from Pasqal, if you brush of his barbaric spendor.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by REhorror:

I kind of wish we have gotten a Black Templar guy instead.

Yeah I know the Space Wolf beef with the Inquisition and that's probably why they are here, but this Space Wolf dude seems kind of a dummy.

Black Templar guy would probably just instantly kill you for being tainted by existing in the Dark City or whatever. Space Wolves are fine since they can show the "deep respect but not worship" relationship of the Astartes with the Emperor that a lot of other chapters won't. It's a nice counter point to Argenta's burning zealotry and Heinrix's cold fanaticism.

[G Willikers]

Functionally they are a chapter. They no longer have an (active) primarch, they're roughly chapter sized and nowhere near legion sized, they have successor chapters. Yeah they can call on those chapters in times of needs but so can any of the originals, as the blood angels demonstrated.

The Black Templars are really the only force that could be described as a legion on any level and they would be a tiny one compared to pre-heresy numbers.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by G Willikers:

Functionally they are a chapter. They no longer have an (active) primarch, they're roughly chapter sized and nowhere near legion sized, they have successor chapters. Yeah they can call on those chapters in times of needs but so can any of the originals, as the blood angels demonstrated.

The Black Templars are really the only force that could be described as a legion on any level and they would be a tiny one compared to pre-heresy numbers.

I'm pretty sure the Space Wolves still have a few thousand Marines in the chapter, so definitely more than a codex Chapter. Certainly far less than a Legion though, yes.

[zenebatos1]

They are a Chapter.

Just Not a Codex Astartes compliant one.

Wich is usually called a Non-Codex Chapter.

Like the Black Templars or the Dark Angels or the White Scars.

Its a "Non-Codex" CHapter, when they don't follow the Codex Astartes to a T, like Ultramarines would do.

Cause their methods are different enough from whats in the Book, that it is obviously appearant.

Space Wolves have 13 Grand Companies as the basis of their organisation, instead of 10 Companies.

Black Templars doesn't have Scouts units and thus no Scout company, they have Neophytes that accompany the Battle Brothers and they make EXTENSIVE use of Drop vehicles.

WHite Scars, has WAY more Scouting and rapid response vehicles than any other chapter, There is more Marines riding something, than going on foot.

Dark Angels 1st and 2nd company are organised as the Deathwing and the Ravenwing (and not forgetting the whole Fallen deal)

[Harukage]

First of all they have roughly 1600 marines overall spread between 12 companies. Not counting the returned 13th company that is full of wulfen. Well, they had. But we will return to that later.
Also they only have single successor chapter - Wolf Spear. The Chapter made up from Unnumbered Sons of Russ genome during the Indomitus Crusade.
If you talk about NOW situation, GW still can't get their ♥♥♥♥ together and name us a proper number of marines in a codex compliant chapters. Even talking about Ultrasmurfs their modern companies does not come at 100 if you count all the new squads added to base structure in a new edition of Codex Astrtes by Guilliman. And the chapter go way above 1000 with 10 companies. Do not forget that 10th company now contains both scouts and scout sergeants as well as effective vanguard marines force.
Space Wolves also got reinforced. So i can't for the love of the emperor tell you their aproximate strength.

[zenebatos1]

Originally posted by Harukage:

First of all they have roughly 1600 marines overall spread between 12 companies. Not counting the returned 13th company that is full of wulfen. Well, they had. But we will return to that later.
Also they only have single successor chapter - Wolf Spear. The Chapter made up from Unnumbered Sons of Russ genome during the Indomitus Crusade.
If you talk about NOW situation, GW still can't get their ♥♥♥♥ together and name us a proper number of marines in a codex compliant chapters. Even talking about Ultrasmurfs their modern companies does not come at 100 if you count all the new squads added to base structure in a new edition of Codex Astrtes by Guilliman. And the chapter go way above 1000 with 10 companies. Do not forget that 10th company now contains both scouts and scout sergeants as well as effective vanguard marines force.
Space Wolves also got reinforced. So i can't for the love of the emperor tell you their aproximate strength.

Thats why a Codex compliant Chapter "is approximatively" 1000 BATTLE BROTHERS strong.

The numbers can vary, some chapters are well over that estimate (Black Templars) and others are Under it, due to their frequent casualties and difficulties to resplenish their numbers.

And those numbers doesn't take into account the Serfs and other personel that is used around a chapter( vehicle/ships pilots and crews, servitors, auxiliaries etc etc)

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Originally posted by REhorror:

I kind of wish we have gotten a Black Templar guy instead.

Yeah I know the Space Wolf beef with the Inquisition and that's probably why they are here, but this Space Wolf dude seems kind of a dummy.

Black Templar guy would probably just instantly kill you for being tainted by existing in the Dark City or whatever. Space Wolves are fine since they can show the "deep respect but not worship" relationship of the Astartes with the Emperor that a lot of other chapters won't. It's a nice counter point to Argenta's burning zealotry and Heinrix's cold fanaticism.

Owlcat allows a Sister of Battle talking to me while I do all kinds of stupid ♥♥♥♥, yeah, I think I can deal with the Black Templar.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Harukage:

It must be also said that assets given to Wolf Brothers by their parent chapter: many relic weapons, vechicles and a huge fleet were literally stolen from them after Wolf Brothers were disbanded, and given to other chapters without prior aproval. Only a portion was returned to Space Wolves.

Originally posted by REhorror:

but this Space Wolf dude seems kind of a dummy.

He is literally the smartest and wisest person in our party, aside from Pasqal, if you brush of his barbaric spendor.

Honestly I'm not sure of the whole story yet, but he already lets 2 battle-brothers down and allows himself to be captured.

He is kinda destroying my images of Space Wolves being supreme hunter.

[G Willikers]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Harukage:

It must be also said that assets given to Wolf Brothers by their parent chapter: many relic weapons, vechicles and a huge fleet were literally stolen from them after Wolf Brothers were disbanded, and given to other chapters without prior aproval. Only a portion was returned to Space Wolves.


He is literally the smartest and wisest person in our party, aside from Pasqal, if you brush of his barbaric spendor.

Honestly I'm not sure of the whole story yet, but he already lets 2 battle-brothers down and allows himself to be captured.

He is kinda destroying my images of Space Wolves being supreme hunter.

Were you the one in a different discussion who said they trained him wrong as a joke? It's really the only explanation that makes sense

[REhorror]

Originally posted by G Willikers:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Honestly I'm not sure of the whole story yet, but he already lets 2 battle-brothers down and allows himself to be captured.

He is kinda destroying my images of Space Wolves being supreme hunter.

Were you the one in a different discussion who said they trained him wrong as a joke? It's really the only explanation that makes sense

I think so.

Or he's not who he seems to be.