Respec Companions to Level 1

[DexGames]

I was just thinking :

MAYBE, us not being able to respec companions to Level 1 is...
A BUG FROM THE BEGINING ! xD

The only reason you can respec Abelard is because you get him at level 1.
But you CAN respec him to level 1, like... it's doable ! It's in the Game !

AND IF, it's not a bug :
- Why would you even DECIDE to FORBID RESPECING other companions to level 1 ?
- How Braindead would you have to be to consciously make such a decision ?

Like, literally PROGRAMMING ACTUAL CODE to prevent people from Respecing !
LMAO, I'm dying from laughter how absurd it is ^^

Imagine for a sec :
- You get Marazhai.
- Level 29.
- Respec costs f*cking Profit Factor.
- And you pay that Profit Factor for what ? 1 Ability, 1 Talent and 2 Skills ? xD

MAYBE the bug is that "respecing is currently stuck" at the level you pick someone up, and that's the actual bug ?!

IF it's intentional, then this is a case, where ANY dev would literally deserve to be insulted.
Like... Legitimately LMAO

[Bomoo]

absurb

Sounds like a bug.

[/|l13n]

dunno but, isn,t it related to :

"EVERYBODY CAN KILL EVERYBODY.."...... Theory ?
"just better manners ?"

[jedi72]

If you really need a very specific build you can just roll another character.

I wanted another Bolter warrior for some specific missions and I simply created one......

[ADDB]

It's a design decision on Owlcat's part.
Internally every unit has a so-called "default level" which, for your companions, is basically the level you recruit them at. Respec only brings a unit down to its default level, not any lower.

It's fully intentional, and devs have repeatedly confirmed that they don't plan on changing this behavior.

[Marcos_DS]

Its pretty supid but unfortunately intentional. Either you take the given presets (pretty horrible for Jae) or simply get only early game party mambers that are built the way you want (or mercs).
Or you can install toybox and respec them anyway. I prefer this third option so i get companion comments and interactions without missing/bad talent or ability choices.

[Silvi the Bun]

Honestly wish we could just do it from lvl 1; had to do it using toybox coz they're a bit scuffed

[DexGames]

Originally posted by jedi72:

If you really need a very specific build you can just roll another character.

I wanted another Bolter warrior for some specific missions and I simply created one......

I guess what most people want is to be able to build specific builds, yeah... AND have their Companions along the way. Not uninteractive mercenaries.

Originally posted by ADDB:

It's a design decision on Owlcat's part.
Internally every unit has a so-called "default level" which, for your companions, is basically the level you recruit them at. Respec only brings a unit down to its default level, not any lower.

It's fully intentional, and devs have repeatedly confirmed that they don't plan on changing this behavior.

Can you link these "repeated" confirmation sources ?
I tend to not believe the "trust me bro" sources.

If you can't, can you tell us... WHY they did so then ?

And by the way, "unit has a so-called default level", and "respec only brings a unit down to its default level"...

Well, that's just what everyone already knows lol
You don't bring anything to the table with that statement, you're just explaining how it works xD

[Pixie1001]

This is pretty standard for Owlcat - in their previous titles there were even secret ways to get companions earlier on in the story, which would then give you more control over their build.

If it's annoying, just download the ToyBox mod and tick the respec to 0 box (assuming you're playing on PC anyway).

[Schlumpsha]

This request is something Owlcat got for all of their games and involved companions. Even back in Kingmaker. If I remember correctly the given reasoning was they wanted for the companions to retain their backgrounds, origins and mechanical class identities. Say, respeccing Argenta into a Crime Lord, or Yrliet a Ministorum Priest is something Owlcat isn't a fan of.

[Helios2216]

Not a bug really. I looked at somethings allowed by Toy Box, pregen_chars: companion are given features that give them levels that have the class/archetype values selected. That is if you give your own character such feature for example Jae's you will have the same levels and perks that are already selected for Jae.

It is intentional. Yes you can remove said feature and then respec a character.

Edit: I did not see ADDB's post while making my own, refer to their post for more accurate information.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

If companions could be respeced to level 1 then you would *have* to respec them in order to get full value from them... and then that would spawn debates about how being forced to respec all of your companions is a burden on your profit factor.

You get the companion as-is when they join you, and you have to take the good and the bad as it comes. You can use respec to change any decisions you made while leveling them up, but not any decisions they made before they met you. As compensation for the "bad" choices you might be stuck with, they all come with free perks that your MC or a merc wouldn't have.

If you do find a companion whose perks don't outweigh the choices you are stuck with, you have the option to not use that companion. You can either use a different companion or you can create a merc to fill their shoes.

[Toadally Awesome]

It would be a lot more bearable if the options they did not choose for these companions were occasionally downright stupid.

Owlcat are vets in the genre, I refuse to believe they would look at Ulfar and think, yeah this guy needs a talent for Medium Armor. Like I am pretty sure there are no Medium Armor Astartes gear in the game. What is it meant to be there for, a remnant from his scout years?

Marazhai also can find armors throughout the game that hint towards a more tanky Toughness-oriented build, except he is already geared towards Agility, which is not horrible but still makes it pointless to try anything else.

It would have been fine if they at least provided optimised builds.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Toadally Awesome:

It would be a lot more bearable if the options they did not choose for these companions were occasionally downright stupid.

Owlcat are vets in the genre, I refuse to believe they would look at Ulfar and think, yeah this guy needs a talent for Medium Armor. Like I am pretty sure there are no Medium Armor Astartes gear in the game. What is it meant to be there for, a remnant from his scout years?

You are right that Second Skin is worthless to Ulfar, and costs him a talent slot. However, keep in mind that he gets these talents for free:
Plasma Weapon Proficiency
Melta Weapon Proficiency
Flame Weapon Proficiency
Bolter Weapon Proficiency
Power Armor Proficiency
Black Carapace
Eternal Warrior

Clearly the trade-off is in Ulfar's favor.

[Toadally Awesome]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

You are right that Second Skin is worthless to Ulfar, and costs him a talent slot. However, keep in mind that he gets these talents for free:
Plasma Weapon Proficiency
Melta Weapon Proficiency
Flame Weapon Proficiency
Bolter Weapon Proficiency
Power Armor Proficiency
Black Carapace
Eternal Warrior

Clearly the trade-off is in Ulfar's favor.

That is not the point, the point is presentation. Black Carapace, Eternal Warrior and Swift Hunter are bonus talents he gets from his Origin. That's fine. He also gets a unique version of the charge ability. However:

-The Adeptus Astartes Equipment tag is horrible. All these weapon proficiencies basically boil down to "Heavy Weapons & Astartes Gear". It also severely limits his options for everything except trinkets and the neck item.

-His unique ability is geared to always attack with his right handed weapon, which when you get him, has to be a Bolter Pistol since his knife can only be equipped in the left hand. This makes him run into melee and do nothing which gives off a bad impression. During that stage he will also do attacks of opportunity with the bolter pistol.

-His knife's ability that is meant to give him a free stab with it when he kills someone straight up doesn't work.

-They gave him Combat Medicae, when he cannot use Medikits as he comes. The two advancements they gave him in Awareness could have gone in Athletics, or Carouse or Medicae to make the talent useable. I get that he is a wolf and likes smelling things, but he is also at the pinnacle of human physique and can hold his drink.

-Swift Hunter allows him to use his movement points regardless of his actions. One of the upgrades they picked for his Soldier Heroic Act, gives him +4 MP and the same effect of using movement points regardless of his actions for the turn he uses the Heroic Act. Needless to say, this is also stupid.

My main issue with all of the above is that they convey really silly choices or were made intentionally to make the character worse. In that case, why not just replace the Second Skin talent with any of the Proficiency talents mentioned he should "already have"?

It is not Owlcat's first time making these characters and I am willing to forgive a lot of design decisions but I am expecting them to treat the late game characters they hand to me with the same attention that they treat (most of) their NPC enemies.

[DexGames]

I mean... the main debate I brought here is still :
WHY the hell did they do this ? When you can respec Abelard Level 1 ?

It doesn't make any sense to intentionaly forbid players to toy with builds, in a "build focus" game.

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Also, the reason we / I want to respec Companions and not have Mercenaries, is unique talent some companions have.

If I want a Dual Pistol weilder, I wanna respec Jae because of her unique Gunslinger Talent that none other than her can get. Same goes for Pasqal, him being an Adeptus Mechanicus he has access to custom talents no one can get through mercenaries.

Can't build a custom Navigator Merc.
Can't build a custom Astartes Space Wolf.
Can't build a custom Aeldari.
Can't build a custom Drukkhari.
etc

Whatever the "reason", the reason is dumb in all regards.
There's no other way around it.

I can respec Abelard... and I can't respec Marazhai ?!
Totaly and Utterly Absurd.