Level-up system is too complicated

[SuicidalCivie]

Why can’t it simply unlock a number of talents, and then say how many must be general. Instead if I “waste” a non-general talent slot by putting a general one in, I’m sorry later. Also there is no way to leave something unassigned and decide later what I’m going for.
I think it would be much easier, if the “archetype clock” would only be there to show us what is unlocked and what get’s unlocked next and we can have a more user friendly interface to allocate these unlocks.
Yes, I’m aware that that would slightly alter the balance since talents can unlock skills and characteristics, but I think it would be worth it.

[Maestro Rugosa]

It's the first game I've encountered where I hate leveling up.

[REhorror]

Is it?
It's basically just more active skills or more passive skills?

This is nothing compared to Pathfinders for example.
And you get stronger and stronger.

[CGI_Lantern]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Is it?
It's basically just more active skills or more passive skills?

This is nothing compared to Pathfinders for example.
And you get stronger and stronger.

Lack of color coding between talent and common-talent is pain in the ass because you can fill talent slot with common one, and this is completely screw your build...

[Moffin Bovin]

there are filters that you can use to only show the class talents.

but yeah i agree.

The interface sucks. The system itself is a mess.

[Jalmari H.]

It's not too complicated, interface just could be better to see if you can have only common talents or whatsoever.

Too manys time you need to be very careful what talents to pick. This is especially so for navigator, officer or psyker.

And I stil do not know what stratagems are and I am on second playthrough on hard difficulty.

[Who trains thy hands for war?]

I open a note taking program to list the options I'm interested in, think about my plan, then pick and choose

Once we have an idea of how to build our characters we'll have a template to work from. Otherwise, yes, leveling takes forever at first

[SuicidalCivie]

Also, after you put in something, there is no easy way to see what is a Talent, a Characteristic or a Skill. All are circles and most are letters in those circles. How about making Characteristics squares and Skills triangles or something.
But the best thing imho would be to have Characteristic and Skill increases simply become marked as obtained by turning from grey to green and let us allocate them independently on the character sheet on the right side.

Edit: Having free level-up resets as a difficulty option would take the edge off the compicatedness. But I now there are mods.

[BoogerPickler]

Originally posted by Maestro Rugosa:

It's the first game I've encountered where I hate leveling up.

truly a unique experience

[Ronin Gamer]

If you've played their Pathfinder games, these systems while not exactly the same aren't entirely new either. I'm not always the biggest fan of 3.5 feat picking over and over, but it's completely doable as well. Just need to try and keep how you are building your character in mind as you get those levels and what you are working towards.
I don't really have that big of a problem with it personally.

[Draken]

Yeah, the presentation of the system could definitely use some work.

I earmark talents I want with the favorite function. That helps quite a bit. Strange that you can't use that for the common talents though.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

It's not too complicated, interface just could be better to see if you can have only common talents or whatsoever.

Too manys time you need to be very careful what talents to pick. This is especially so for navigator, officer or psyker.

And I stil do not know what stratagems are and I am on second playthrough on hard difficulty.

I think stratagems, something I use rarely on my difficulty and probably because only one of my characters can even use them, are when you place the three spaces down on the ground with that one class that gives bonuses to your members standing in them. After that, that class can gain "stratagems" that give further bonuses I assume on top of what the spaces normally give you.
I think. I haven't used the class all that much myself.

[Ammellisan]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

It's not too complicated, interface just could be better to see if you can have only common talents or whatsoever.

Too manys time you need to be very careful what talents to pick. This is especially so for navigator, officer or psyker.

And I stil do not know what stratagems are and I am on second playthrough on hard difficulty.

I think stratagems, something I use rarely on my difficulty and probably because only one of my characters can even use them, are when you place the three spaces down on the ground with that one class that gives bonuses to your members standing in them. After that, that class can gain "stratagems" that give further bonuses I assume on top of what the spaces normally give you.
I think. I haven't used the class all that much myself.

^this is 100% correct, you unlock them every 'x' levels on your grand strategist, but if you're like me and like putting grand strategist on Cassia, then they coincide with her navigator powers and you'll rarely pick strategems xD

[Draken]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

It's not too complicated, interface just could be better to see if you can have only common talents or whatsoever.

Too manys time you need to be very careful what talents to pick. This is especially so for navigator, officer or psyker.

And I stil do not know what stratagems are and I am on second playthrough on hard difficulty.

I think stratagems, something I use rarely on my difficulty and probably because only one of my characters can even use them, are when you place the three spaces down on the ground with that one class that gives bonuses to your members standing in them. After that, that class can gain "stratagems" that give further bonuses I assume on top of what the spaces normally give you.
I think. I haven't used the class all that much myself.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.
You have three 0 AP zones you can place down with various base effects scaling with both FEL and INT. The zones are shared among all Grand Strategists and the highest attribute bonus is used. So if you have a high FEL MC and Pasqal both as GS you would use the FEL of your MC and the INT from Pasqal.

Frontline zone gives armor to allies and increased damage taken to enemies.
Backline gives dodge and cover efficiency as well as dodge reduction.
Rear gives ranged damage and critical hit chance as well as overpenetration.

All of these scale with either INT or FEL or both.

You can then use other 1 AP abilities called Strategems on those areas, giving them additional bonus or effects. There are a ton of different effects:
Forcing enemies to reroll dodge or parries, killing any damaged enemy below a hp threshold, give -WS -BS and rate of Fire debuffs, more armor, immunity to prone, no injuries on damage taken, free movement to the zone, cover effectiveness, reroll on fail for characteristics and damage immunity for cover.

You then have various talents that either cause a zone to get additional base effects or additional effects if they are targeted by a Strategem.

It's a very versatile system with a ton of options, the only real problem is that putting the zones down is a bit fiddly. They rotate based on your characters position, so you might have to move a bit to put the zone down in the orientation you want.

[talemore]

Originally posted by Maestro Rugosa:

It's the first game I've encountered where I hate leveling up.

Oh yes hate the one and ultimate I don't give a damn expression where everyone are meant to make a brain surgery to find out what you want.

Thank you captain hindsight

[pascal.difolco]

Imo it's more badly explained and with a bad UI than outright a bad system
Took me 5 minutes to even manage to use the levelup Wheel of Fate ^^

Game should give more info beforehand on how leveling works and where you're heading (WotR did that very nicely), sort more clearly the talents you got from archetype and origins, and maybe railroad you towards builds type (eg melee fighter, sniper, burst soldier, pyro psyker...) that could be like soft "subclasses"