Soldier is a better warrior

[talemore]

Soldier has high agility

It goes into arch militant

Has charge as part of run and gun

Dodge is superior to deflection

Cover give extra dodge, as warrior you are just standing in an open field no matter if you use cover.

[corisai]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You will get more attacks with R&G than with Charge, on any Melee build.

You don't.

As lack melee heroic and access to assassin class. What would be your future progression, another Arch-Militant with heavy bolter, lol?

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You will get more attacks with R&G than with Charge, on any Melee build.

You don't.

As lack melee heroic and access to assassin class. What would be your future progression, another Arch-Militant with heavy bolter, lol?

Arch-militant is also good for Melee, you even get a perk that adds all Ballistic Skill to Weapon Skill, and vice-versa, depending on what weapon you are using.

Arch-mil is precisely the natural progression of Soldier or Warrior, Vanguard is just for tanking.

[Neoz]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You will get more attacks with R&G than with Charge, on any Melee build.

You don't.

As lack melee heroic and access to assassin class. What would be your future progression, another Arch-Militant with heavy bolter, lol?

Arch militant is a better progression for a melee warrior than assassin IMO outside very specific circumstances.
Reckless rush- Movement reset, for warrior, thats great
Extra attack(2x), two great heroic actions
stacking WS=more damage, and insane parry.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Is Solder better than Warrior? Yes.

Does that mean I'm not going to take Abelard or Heinrix everywhere I go? No.

It's beter to have a Warrior Tank, especially if you use GS diversion zone, to keep enemies off your rear lines completely. That way the enemy only pummels your warrior that gets all the healing/damage love, while your Soldier kills everything with dmg buffs and no threat to it. You can CC and group enemies around the Warrior for even better effect.

Abelard and Heinrix are both Warriors, I believe only Argenta is a Soldier.

[talemore]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Balekai:

Is Solder better than Warrior? Yes.

Does that mean I'm not going to take Abelard or Heinrix everywhere I go? No.

It's beter to have a Warrior Tank, especially if you use GS diversion zone, to keep enemies off your rear lines completely. That way the enemy only pummels your warrior that gets all the healing/damage love, while your Soldier kills everything with dmg buffs and no threat to it. You can CC and group enemies around the Warrior for even better effect.

Abelard and Heinrix are both Warriors, I believe only Argenta is a Soldier.

We're a little in deep waters and outside the narrative.
They're stereotypes. The idea is warriors uses sword. Jake sully of the warrior clan used guns.
Beside Heinrix gains damage from psi.
Ebelard designed to be a tank.

This is why pasqal is a better example. They pretty much made him into a soldier by giving him a mobility talent.
I think pasqal would been better as a soldier. He can use both weapons.

We could as well give warrior guns since they are not going to be the backbone. They're there to be a moving brick and this game promote damage.

Without testing we may over-value warrior class.

I think about the cassia battle where she lay on the floor blocking edelard from using charge.

[Seswatha]

Warriors already have the best mobility talent - their heroic with the right upgrades. Plus charge itself is also a mobility talent, especially with +3 range upgrade.

Melee AM deals no damage in my experience. You can probably tackle on a psyker and try to salvage the damage this way or... use guns. WS bonus/2 damage scaling is pretty bad outside of burst weapons. +3% crit damage per versatility stack is better but not enough.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by talemore:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Abelard and Heinrix are both Warriors, I believe only Argenta is a Soldier.

We're a little in deep waters and outside the narrative.
They're stereotypes. The idea is warriors uses sword. Jake sully of the warrior clan used guns.
Beside Heinrix gains damage from psi.
Ebelard designed to be a tank.

This is why pasqal is a better example. They pretty much made him into a soldier by giving him a mobility talent.
I think pasqal would been better as a soldier. He can use both weapons.

We could as well give warrior guns since they are not going to be the backbone. They're there to be a moving brick and this game promote damage.

Without testing we may over-value warrior class.

I think about the cassia battle where she lay on the floor blocking edelard from using charge.

No. In this game Warrior means damage sponge fronliner, while Sodier is damage dealer frontliner.
No other definition of Warrior is necessary, as it is a game term.
Abelard and Heinrix both start as the Warrior archetype. Only Argenta starts as the Soldier archetype. Starting archetypes cannot be changed.

[corisai]

Originally posted by rorek55:

Arch militant is a better progression for a melee warrior than assassin IMO outside very specific circumstances.

a) And big fat issues with keep going with stacks as 2AP aoe is quite expensive (and limit your choice of weapons).
b) Where are yours 2 extra attacks? Wildfire is 2-3AP usually (and shouldn't work with melee attack by it's naming). You're not going to dump tons of extra turn on melee character, it's killing it's purpose.

While Assassin in comparision is entirely self-sufficient (especially psyker one).

[corisai]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No. In this game Warrior means damage sponge fronliner, while Sodier is damage dealer frontliner.

Show to me any tools that Soldier have for dealing melee damage?

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No. In this game Warrior means damage sponge fronliner, while Sodier is damage dealer frontliner.

Show to me any tools that Soldier have for dealing melee damage?

Run & Gun, Revel in Slaughter, Firearms Mastery, Rapid Fire, Controlled Shot (excellent for bursts into enemies blocked by your party)...
All teh Soldier tools are literally "do more damage", "attack more times", "avoid doing friendly fire", and so on.

It is very clear that the Soldier is the Damage Dealer archetype. Even it's specific talents are about increasing abiity or weapon damage, more often than not.

Just go for R&G into a free AoE strike with your Power Hammer in the middle of a crowd, and then you get another AoE Strike, and a Dash to the target if you need (because the first few enemies got killed, followed by Firearms Mastery.
Soldier can literally mass AoE and entire battlefield, if you play it right, in Range AND Melee.

[dim128128]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by rorek55:

Arch militant is a better progression for a melee warrior than assassin IMO outside very specific circumstances.

a) And big fat issues with keep going with stacks as 2AP aoe is quite expensive (and limit your choice of weapons).
b) Where are yours 2 extra attacks? Wildfire is 2-3AP usually (and shouldn't work with melee attack by it's naming). You're not going to dump tons of extra turn on melee character, it's killing it's purpose.

While Assassin in comparision is entirely self-sufficient (especially psyker one).

1 more clown with zero understanding. Literally in the prologue it is said that most skills are used a) in relation to all types of attacks, including psionic powers. With the exception of a couple of skills for the entire game, this is how it works - so why shouldn't wildfire work on melee. Both the arch-militant and the murderer are not even close - the first is S class, the second is at best B (if you compare them with each other)

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by corisai:

Show to me any tools that Soldier have for dealing melee damage?

Run & Gun, Revel in Slaughter, Firearms Mastery, Rapid Fire, Controlled Shot (excellent for bursts into enemies blocked by your party)...
All teh Soldier tools are literally "do more damage", "attack more times", "avoid doing friendly fire", and so on.

It is very clear that the Soldier is the Damage Dealer archetype. Even it's specific talents are about increasing abiity or weapon damage, more often than not.

Just go for R&G into a free AoE strike with your Power Hammer in the middle of a crowd, and then you get another AoE Strike, and a Dash to the target if you need (because the first few enemies got killed, followed by Firearms Mastery.
Soldier can literally mass AoE and entire battlefield, if you play it right, in Range AND Melee.

Warrior can do up to 11 melee attacks under daring breach, after doing god knows how many on their turn (slash is free of attack cap and is bascially 1.5 attacks with stalking boots)

[dim128128]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by corisai:

Show to me any tools that Soldier have for dealing melee damage?

Run & Gun, Revel in Slaughter, Firearms Mastery, Rapid Fire, Controlled Shot (excellent for bursts into enemies blocked by your party)...
All teh Soldier tools are literally "do more damage", "attack more times", "avoid doing friendly fire", and so on.

It is very clear that the Soldier is the Damage Dealer archetype. Even it's specific talents are about increasing abiity or weapon damage, more often than not.

Just go for R&G into a free AoE strike with your Power Hammer in the middle of a crowd, and then you get another AoE Strike, and a Dash to the target if you need (because the first few enemies got killed, followed by Firearms Mastery.
Soldier can literally mass AoE and entire battlefield, if you play it right, in Range AND Melee.

obviously you didn't play as a warrior. He does this in close combat much better than a soldier

[corisai]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Run & Gun, Revel in Slaughter, Firearms Mastery, Rapid Fire, Controlled Shot (excellent for bursts into enemies blocked by your party)...

Bug, mostly garbage (only crit chance is used for melee), garbage, garbage/bug as should't work with melee weapons.

And ... that's all?

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

followed by Firearms Mastery.

And what I will do with FM? It doesn't provide extra moverment so garbage for melee.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Run & Gun, Revel in Slaughter, Firearms Mastery, Rapid Fire, Controlled Shot (excellent for bursts into enemies blocked by your party)...
All teh Soldier tools are literally "do more damage", "attack more times", "avoid doing friendly fire", and so on.

It is very clear that the Soldier is the Damage Dealer archetype. Even it's specific talents are about increasing abiity or weapon damage, more often than not.

Just go for R&G into a free AoE strike with your Power Hammer in the middle of a crowd, and then you get another AoE Strike, and a Dash to the target if you need (because the first few enemies got killed, followed by Firearms Mastery.
Soldier can literally mass AoE and entire battlefield, if you play it right, in Range AND Melee.

Warrior can do up to 11 melee attacks under daring breach, after doing god knows how many on their turn (slash is free of attack cap and is bascially 1.5 attacks with stalking boots)

11 Melee Attacks, but they are all the basic one. Soldier can do 3-5 AoE ones, and just clear the map.
If you want a boss killer (11 single target attacks per round), you just do the Cassia + Pasqal combo.

Soldiers can stack up the bodies of tons of enemies per tirn, while Warriors cannot. In this game, where heroics really shine, getting more kills faster, is better than 11 attacks on a single opponent, or small group of people (because there is no way you will reach 11 targets, even if you could kill each with a single swing, but you can easily do it with the AoE from Power Weapons, and Soldier uses that more often).