For those in the know; which conviction is most fleshed out?

[Rain]

I was considering Heretical or Dogmatic for my first playthrough and I really can't decide.

What could I really expect from either of them?

[Flynn]

Iconoclast, if you want to have a more 'human empathy' type of character; that baffles the ever loving hell out of the other characters because you're actually a sane human being. It's actually kinda really funny in some cases where it causes the 'high and mighty' to spit and sputter.

[Schlumpsha]

Heretical has more flesh. And blood. And skulls.

[REhorror]

Iconoclaust is basically a trap.
You sound reasonable until you are reduced to kind of whimpering wimp, and it takes you to the ending.

I would say Dogmatic with some Iconoclaust is the most fleshed out, and I have to say some Dogmatic dialogs are simply awesome and inspirational.

[phantommail]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Iconoclaust is basically a trap.
You sound reasonable until you are reduced to kind of whimpering wimp, and it takes you to the ending.

I would say Dogmatic with some Iconoclaust is the most fleshed out, and I have to say some Dogmatic dialogs are simply awesome and inspirational.

I finished only 3 acts so dunno about ending.
Some dogmatic dialogs are cool , yes. But mostly it's just "Die , heretic/xenos/etc" boring crap

[REhorror]

Originally posted by phantommail:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Iconoclaust is basically a trap.
You sound reasonable until you are reduced to kind of whimpering wimp, and it takes you to the ending.

I would say Dogmatic with some Iconoclaust is the most fleshed out, and I have to say some Dogmatic dialogs are simply awesome and inspirational.

I finished only 3 acts so dunno about ending.
Some dogmatic dialogs are cool , yes. But mostly it's just "Die , heretic/xenos/etc" boring crap

No, they aren't tho.
There are some BAD Dogmatic options (like durr I'm a noble know your place, which isn't Dogmatic even in-universe), but there are plenty of good ones (like particular the part where you tell the Eldar in Janus that they can live BUT under humanity rule, the choices of persuading Pascal out of heretek and the Dogmatic choices in Act 3).

While the Iconoclaust options go from the "For the people!" to gradually "I'm gonna forgive and accept everything thrown at me, no matter how stupid it is".

[phantommail]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by phantommail:

I finished only 3 acts so dunno about ending.
Some dogmatic dialogs are cool , yes. But mostly it's just "Die , heretic/xenos/etc" boring crap

No, they aren't tho.
There are some BAD Dogmatic options (like durr I'm a noble know your place, which isn't Dogmatic even in-universe), but there are plenty of good ones (like particular the part where you tell the Eldar in Janus that they can live BUT under humanity rule, the choices of persuading Pascal out of heretek and the Dogmatic choices in Act 3).

While the Iconoclaust options go from the "For the people!" to gradually "I'm gonna forgive and accept everything thrown at me, no matter how stupid it is".

Well , that's my perception of it. Dogmatic is mostly about murdering stuff. I mean one of the options I remember is literally to mudered people and make servitors out of them.

Iconoclaust can be cringe too , yes. That's why I have mixture of both.

Hope I will not get locked into some ending based on highest scale and always will be able to choose.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by phantommail:

Originally posted by REhorror:

No, they aren't tho.
There are some BAD Dogmatic options (like durr I'm a noble know your place, which isn't Dogmatic even in-universe), but there are plenty of good ones (like particular the part where you tell the Eldar in Janus that they can live BUT under humanity rule, the choices of persuading Pascal out of heretek and the Dogmatic choices in Act 3).

While the Iconoclaust options go from the "For the people!" to gradually "I'm gonna forgive and accept everything thrown at me, no matter how stupid it is".

Well , that's my perception of it. Dogmatic is mostly about murdering stuff. I mean one of the options I remember is literally to mudered people and make servitors out of them.

Iconoclaust can be cringe too , yes. That's why I have mixture of both.

Hope I will not get locked into some ending based on highest scale and always will be able to choose.

No, Dogmatic is mostly about enforcing the laws and making sure your Expanse is Imperium-friendly and follows Imperium laws, it is not simply "murdering stuff". The people you make out to be servitors are criminals or people who want to harm or hurt you.

The only thing "unfair" Dogmatic choices are the ones about being haughty noble, which feels un-Dogmatic.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by REhorror:

The only thing "unfair" Dogmatic choices are the ones about being haughty noble, which feels un-Dogmatic.

No, the imperium has feudal elements and as such submission to betters is part of imperial law and so dogmatic.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by REhorror:

The only thing "unfair" Dogmatic choices are the ones about being haughty noble, which feels un-Dogmatic.

it isnt for someone as powerful as a rogue trader i guess, you are well within your rights to be a haughty noble who demands utmost reverence from those under you in order to keep the imperial hierarchy in check

multiple characters even act baffled or annoyed at us not adhering to this hierarchy when addressing people considerably beneath us

[Morgian]

I like the dogmatic decisions where you can solve something by believe in the emperor.

The noble decisions are full in character, but nowadays we are so far away from a feudal society that we don't realize how it was back then. The french had good reasons to shorten their nobility by a head, because those guys were like that.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by REhorror:

The only thing "unfair" Dogmatic choices are the ones about being haughty noble, which feels un-Dogmatic.

No, the imperium has feudal elements and as such submission to betters is part of imperial law and so dogmatic.

Nope, while the Imperium has feudal element and class system, being a haughty noble has nothing to do with being Dogmatic or loyal to the Emperor.

The official Imperial creed and religion encourages humbleness and even modesty.

[Chrisme]

Iconoclast has some pretty stupid dialogue options. Take for example what happens at the end of chapter 1. The reasonable longterm choice is obviously dogmatic no matter how harsh it may seem but if you're going for the Iconoclast route (even if only for the alignment bonus) you know that have to make a pretty retarded decision and even then you have to make another choice where you know that you will cause further harm by picking the humanist option. Pretty disappointing. Wish it wouldn't be so much about bleeding-heart idiocy.

Likewise heresy is the evil bad guy cringe stereotype. As if you're some kind of James Bond villain. Dogmatic sort of forces you to be pious and pompous.

Well... pick your poison I guess.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Chrisme:

Iconoclast has some pretty stupid dialogue options. Take for example what happens at the end of chapter 1. The reasonable longterm choice is obviously dogmatic no matter how harsh it may seem but if you're going for the Iconoclast route (even if only for the alignment bonus) you know that have to make a pretty retarded decision and even then you have to make another choice where you know that you will cause further harm by picking the humanist option. Pretty disappointing. Wish it wouldn't be so much about bleeding-heart idiocy.

Likewise heresy is the evil bad guy cringe stereotype. As if you're some kind of James Bond villain. Dogmatic sort of forces you to be pious and pompous.

Well... pick your poison I guess.

Some Iconoclaust options being bleeding-heart idiocy makes sense, it's kind of a trap option if you actually follow the lore.

But oh well, the sequel will likely follow the Dogmatic route so you will never see how bad the Iconoclaust choices can be.

I do think they should make daemon warp more frequent and dangerous and route practically being unsafe at best if you decide to be good-two-shoes in Act 1 tho.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

No, the imperium has feudal elements and as such submission to betters is part of imperial law and so dogmatic.

Nope, while the Imperium has feudal element and class system, being a haughty noble has nothing to do with being Dogmatic or loyal to the Emperor.

It absolutely does. They're the HIGH LORDS OF TERRA not the elected officials of terra. The entire leadership class of the imperium is based on nobility. The imperial creed does not emphasise humility or modesty. That's quite literally the opposite of the imperial creed. The imperial creed is that humanity is the greatest species to ever exist, that the god emperor created the universe, that humanity should eradicate anything that is not perfect and unmutated humanity, and that all humans should obey the emperor and the emperor's representitives (which is the ecclesiarchy, the nobility, and other groups invested with imperial authority).

1)The Emperor once walked among men, but He is, and always has been, a god.
2)The Emperor is the one true god, regardless of what past faiths any human may have worshipped.
3)To purge the heretic, beware the psyker and mutant, and abhor the alien.
4)Every human being has a place within the Emperor's divine order.
5)To unquestionably obey the authority of the Imperial government and one's superiors.

Specifically the whole "haughty noble" thing is tenet 5.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Nope, while the Imperium has feudal element and class system, being a haughty noble has nothing to do with being Dogmatic or loyal to the Emperor.

The official Imperial creed and religion encourages humbleness and even modesty.

thats just silly idealism

the creed 'encourages modesty' yet basically every noble house across the galaxy is the farthest thing from modest or humble, they are a charaticature of european aristocracy, they are haughty, they think themselves superior to the common folk, and a RT is far above a common noble, we rule over billions of lives accross multiple planets across multiple systems

the imperium deliberately encourages and enforces this hierarchichal society in order to keep workers subjugated and in check, and faith is one of the main tools of doing so