Combat playstyle on unfair that isn't Argenta shooting everyone?

[ec928]

Finished the game. Enjoyed it quite a bit, especially customising my party with different equipment and and skills and trying them out. But once I hit mid to late game, the battles were always the same: Argenta shoots everyone while everyone else either does nothing or buffs her and gives her turns.

I tried different approaches but while combat with Argenta shooting everyone felt too easy, using other approaches took much longer, and were more difficult and frustrating. For example, Abelard and melee was really useful early game, but mid-game why would you use him to run up to an enemy and hit them (or tank), when Argenta, using only ONE attack, can shoot the same enemy 12+ times at range and shred them? And why bother using complicated strats to debuff enemies when each of Argenta's 12+ shots (using one attack) not only cripple them, but remove armour and dodge? And her attack power increases the more she hits enemies. Even Cassia, who was so strong early game, was just buffing Argenta and giving her turns in the late game.

Thinking of another run on unfair but would like to try a different combat play style, one that's still efficient but not built around Argenta shooting everything. Any suggestions?

[DDkiki]

Автор сообщения: Moffin Bovin

Автор сообщения: DDkiki

11 plasma shots were probably bounty hunter item bug abuse that got fixed recently, item placed bounty literally on every enemy in combat and your ult shooted as many times as bounties you had.

no its using the officer heroic which doesn't give you an attack limit and getting 1 AP refunded every time you shoot a plasma gun for 1 ap. Theres a cap to the number of attacks it lets you do.

Ah this, well I just speculated from my 10+ shots plasma experience, mb.

[Neoz]

Автор сообщения: VladK02

there is nothing that comes close to argenta.

you can buff cassia into stratosphere and have her spell everything to death, but cassia's range is lacking.

melee is complicated and underpowered

sniper just killes one target per turn, and against bosses, underpowered

plasma gunner pascal - a dude was trying to make pascal into a plasma gunner here on the forums a day or so ago - he was bullshitting everyone how pascal can get 11 plasma shots off per turn, 0 AP cost attacks, bla bla bla - predictaby, it turned out to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, i tried. you can get a few shots off, at best. not 11. And underpowered ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, at that, plasma doest cut it.

check your spelling mate, okay.

first, MC arch mil is better than Argenta, you can get war hymn if you want, and go for fortress or hive world for better synergy.

Melee isn't underpowered, its just average compared to a burst weapon abusing arch mil. Melee is quite strong. I've had Heinrix built as a melee assassin, he can clear a fight in a single turn now thanks to the amulet that gives +psy rating attacks on the first turn. Dual wields and abuses the break through ability. Pair of boots gives him off hand attack on the dash ability and proccing 2 openings for free is great. He isn't bad for tanking either, since his dodge is around... 180 or so.

Melee arch militant is great as well, especially once you stack the WS some. You can just face tank melee enemies, even bosses due to hitting like, 250-300 WS. Not to mention getting 4 attacks a round.

Snipers are OP vs bosses. Just one shot them. Almost finished with Act 4, Haven't encountered a single thing I can't one shot on hard. And I'm still over killing most. They also make great efficient use of officers extra turn, since 1 ap= 1 kill=1 AP back.

Pasqal sucks, I mean hes great, but you can't run him as an assassin unless you want to do melee, and even with 11 attacks a turn of plasma, plasma is just sad. Flamers/melta is better.

[DarkFenix]

The only thing that can beat Argenta shooting everyone is your MC shooting everyone, doing the build better. The power armour you can use gives heavy weapons a -1 AP cost, meaning you can shoot the calibrated heavy stubber for free. Your MC can also be a psyker to use the accessory that gives you as many extra attacks as you have psy rating. That's 4 free attacks in turn 1 before you even factor in arch-militant, heroics, or items that increase psy rating further.

Now that I think of it, those extra attacks can go anywhere. A sniper psyker could get 4 extra attacks with a sniper rifle in turn 1.

[Neoz]

Автор сообщения: DarkFenix

The only thing that can beat Argenta shooting everyone is your MC shooting everyone, doing the build better. The power armour you can use gives heavy weapons a -1 AP cost, meaning you can shoot the calibrated heavy stubber for free. Your MC can also be a psyker to use the accessory that gives you as many extra attacks as you have psy rating. That's 4 free attacks in turn 1 before you even factor in arch-militant, heroics, or items that increase psy rating further.

Now that I think of it, those extra attacks can go anywhere. A sniper psyker could get 4 extra attacks with a sniper rifle in turn 1.

sadly, not a lot of use picking up psyker for a sniper.

[Charles]

I kinda have a similar experience with combat. Most encounters are over before the enemy even acts. I think what causes it is that we have fewer enemies with over bloated health/stats. On the rare occasion that they do act they tend to do massive damage, so a prolonged fight is just a bad idea.

The solution, in my opinion, would be to tone down stats of some enemies and sprinkle in some more low level enemies. It really wont matter how much damage a heavy bolter burst does if it will never be able to clear out all of the available enemies. Also with reduced stats you would have a reason to have support characters use their attacks more often. It also makes for more interesting combat as stuff dies quickly, but still poses some danger.

Currently I have no reason to have Jae attack, even tho she gets two attacks for the price of one. The reason is that the enemies are so over bloated that its going to be an ineffective attack unless I build her in a way that diminishes her officer abilities. It is better for her to give a buff and a turn to a damage dealer and let their over optimized stats nuke the enemies over bloated stats.

The other option would be to nerf current builds/buff enemies. However that would just double down on the current problem. Not to mention over inflated health pools makes combat feel ineffective.

[Moffin Bovin]

Автор сообщения: DarkFenix

The only thing that can beat Argenta shooting everyone is your MC shooting everyone, doing the build better. The power armour you can use gives heavy weapons a -1 AP cost, meaning you can shoot the calibrated heavy stubber for free. Your MC can also be a psyker to use the accessory that gives you as many extra attacks as you have psy rating. That's 4 free attacks in turn 1 before you even factor in arch-militant, heroics, or items that increase psy rating further.

Now that I think of it, those extra attacks can go anywhere. A sniper psyker could get 4 extra attacks with a sniper rifle in turn 1.

what makes it so strong is the extra turns. Which you get by making an MC that is a Naval officer Officer Grand Strategist to make sure you always get the first turn with 4 free turns at the start of every combat. Once you have voice of command on her you Don't even need LoS to buff her so she can just run around and kill everything in 1 turn.

[olsongc]

Not playing on unfair, so my two cents might be worthless, but I've quite enjoyed my Pyromancer Psyker on Heretic run, which made me lose Argenta.

My Ranged combat buddy is Pasqal with the extra AP for Plasma and getting anywhere between 8 to 10 shots off on a weakened enemy via assassin abilities.

Pump on any melee people's ability to Parry, don't depend on Armor, and get any counter attack stuff you can get. Abelard has tanked multiple enemies in both Act 3 and Act 4, and even some in Act 5.

[FinementCiselé]

Автор сообщения: DarkFenix

The only thing that can beat Argenta shooting everyone is your MC shooting everyone, doing the build better. The power armour you can use gives heavy weapons a -1 AP cost, meaning you can shoot the calibrated heavy stubber for free. Your MC can also be a psyker to use the accessory that gives you as many extra attacks as you have psy rating. That's 4 free attacks in turn 1 before you even factor in arch-militant, heroics, or items that increase psy rating further.

Now that I think of it, those extra attacks can go anywhere. A sniper psyker could get 4 extra attacks with a sniper rifle in turn 1.

Heinrix in bio/fire zooming at everyone beats Argenta builds. Anyday. Hands down. It is just more teddious to build, more tricky and a pain to gather the required stuff in order to make it run for 2 acts (4 to 5)
At this point Heinrix just fire himself and goes zoom zoom with so much move points he can go back to the imperium by himself after each combat. He also have so much dodge he can do the Neo in the matrix (and he knows kung fu as well <_<)

[Silveressa]

In mid to end game I had great luck with Cassia's point of interest/notch of interest combined with the enemy taking damage everytime she makes them move. It basically melted most baddies under 100 hp in a single turn. or clustered them all up nicely where Pasquel could eliminate them all with a 800-1200+ dmg aoe from his plasma rifle.

Once you hit chapter 4/5 the team is generally complex enough, and well geared that you can clear most non boss combats within the first round easily. (and even most boss fights don't last longer than 2-4 rounds tops with most bosses dead somewhere in the last part of Round 1?)

[gurugeorge]

Yeah the complaint only applies to Unfair really, where you have to try and do things as quickly and safely as possible, because it's so easy to be killed. Even on Hard you have a bit more leeway, and Daring and below you can do pretty much whatever you fancy and it's fine.

I should think the devs balance around Daring (since that's where your and mobs' abilities are even) so they probably don't care as much about Unfair, which is after all supposed to be very difficult and require min-maxing to the gills. But I do think they could do something to make Unfair less funnelled in terms of builds and strats.

[Neoz]

Автор сообщения: Silveressa

In mid to end game I had great luck with Cassia's point of interest/notch of interest combined with the enemy taking damage everytime she makes them move. It basically melted most baddies under 100 hp in a single turn. or clustered them all up nicely where Pasquel could eliminate them all with a 800-1200+ dmg aoe from his plasma rifle.

Once you hit chapter 4/5 the team is generally complex enough, and well geared that you can clear most non boss combats within the first round easily. (and even most boss fights don't last longer than 2-4 rounds tops with most bosses dead somewhere in the last part of Round 1?)

thje ♥♥♥♥ are you getting 800 damage plasma shots

[Silveressa]

Автор сообщения: rorek55

thje ♥♥♥♥ are you getting 800 damage plasma shots

I'd spec'd Pasquel into Bounty hunter and was using the ancient plasma rifle that adds +2 X intelligence to damage (*not* intelligence bonus the actual intelligence ability rating, so 100 intelligence = 39-45x100 dmg for the base non over charge shot) this along with every ability and piece of gear I could find that boosted plasma damage or the intelligence score.

It's ridiculously easy to get insane damage with that plasma rifle's over charge when using it against a bounty hunters chosen prey, alongside all the various buffs to damage the bounty hunter class comes with.

You can of course buff this up further with an officers voice of command to increase his INT stat along with any other supporting char bonuses or exploits you can add to your chosen enemy.

Seriously, that gun in the hands of anyone with a high int score will do 390-450 a basic shot without *any* bonuses just from the X int buff alone.

[OrangeGills]

I don't think unfair is a playable difficulty without breaking the game with some wacky combo like argenta versatility + officers. Some of the boss fights even in just hard difficulty absolutely ruin a party that can't blitz half the encounter on turn 1.

[Nickname0329]

Автор сообщения: rorek55

Pasqal sucks, I mean hes great, but you can't run him as an assassin unless you want to do melee, and even with 11 attacks a turn of plasma, plasma is just sad. Flamers/melta is better.

Literally the Ancient Plasma Gun does 2x Int damage. Not 2x Int Modifier. 2 times your entire Intelligence stat. With buffs its effectively a 200-300 base damage gun lmao.

[Silveressa]

Автор сообщения: Nickname0329

Literally the Ancient Plasma Gun does 2x Int damage. Not 2x Int Modifier. 2 times your entire Intelligence stat. With buffs its effectively a 200-300 base damage gun lmao.

Indeed, with a good bounty hunter build against an enemy other characters have stacked exploits onto you can unleash 1500 or more dmg with an over charge shot crit. In chap 4&5 that weapon can reliably 2 shot just about anything under 2k hps. (Using that gun, if you built the main char into a Arch Militant with plasma rifle skills and focused on int gains during the level ups they could probably take out the final boss inside of 2 rounds with a couple officers around giving them extra turns and the heroic act letting them do a second attack.)