Uralon...

[j.pliskowski]

If I had it may way this entire post would be riddled with profanity..... Looking back though, at this 120 hour journey, it was a buggy mess but it was fun, I really enjoyed it... Things seem to get harder slowly and were an adequate challenge for the entire game. Skills and abilities expanded at a good pace, every character was fun and different and progressed well. I never needed to spam reloads... Most fights I killed my first time through...and then I get to this fight...

He just murders by whole party before I get to even go. He kills 3 people round one MINIMUM, sometimes 4 or even 5. My whole game is bricked.

I got over the fact that I got ambushed by Aeldari snipers when their backs were turned to me. I got over the fact that Calligos Winterscale was also nigh invincible too because characters get too many free turns and have what seems to be, unlimited movement. But you didn't have to face him directly. So, I got over it.

I'm amazed that the purpose of my team being here was to find this guy and kill him, yet for some reason when we get to him, he gets to go first. This happens many times in this game. Initiative rolls are done and they shouldn't be. The player should always go first when the player's goal is to attack.

Anyway, if I didn't have 30 years of gaming experience behind me I would be smashing my keyboard right now. If I had slightly higher testosterone levels I'd probably have punched my monitor. But honestly, I am laughing. I watched the fight start and what unfolded was so profoundly hilarious - I couldn't help myself. This game is so bad, it's funny.

Honestly, I want a refund for this game. It's not finished and I feel like I've been taken advantage of.

[Sprühwürstl]

Seems like most people can´t beat this fight. I can´t beat it either and I never struggled in a fight. The fact that most CSM start before you can have a go and some times even one shot your characters is just rediculous. I hope they will patch it soon or I simply can´t progress any further.

[Morti]

Find a side door so most of CSM will only run/long range shoot 1st turn, so they won't kill many of your characters before you kill 1 or 2 of them.

[j.pliskowski]

The ultimate irony of all this... is I've spent all this time cheating, giving myself free levels until I was capable of beating it... and I needed to give everyone in my party 3 extra levels so they can survive the first round. It doesn't help that there's no really good cover and the CSM's can run so far they can flank you no matter what.

I just beat it, barely, and then the encounter bugs out and I'm stuck on this platform. I have to do it again... This is crazy.

[Mhorge]

As someone who just recently made a post ranting about this very fight... I feel your pain. This fight is honestly ridiculous. I've tried the lift entrance, I've tried the side door, same thing. Death.
On one hand it's actually very fluffy, as I imagine a Dark Apostle and two of his brothers *should* actually tear apart some humans, no matter how psychically gifted they are. As a game though, it's just an exercise in frustration.

It's kinda funny to look at say the Purifier and his 700 odd health (at least in my game) and then look at Ulfar with his...125. His health should be tripled at least, and some might say: 'but that would make the game too easy', but forget that people would a) still take Agentia over him anyway and b), he can't actually move around that much in combat anyway for the most part since combat encounters work on that grid and he gets stuck so much.

[REhorror]

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

[Gastberend]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhXwcylMYIo

This dude managed to defeat Uralon despite making several mistakes, for example leaving Yliret unprotected, going into battle with injuries, not having the proper skills for argenta, not buffing Ulfar and Argenta.
I am surprised my Pasqal is actually as good as the one of that video...

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Gastberend:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhXwcylMYIo

This dude managed to defeat Uralon despite making several mistakes, for example leaving Yliret unprotected, going into battle with injuries, not having the proper skills for argenta, not buffing Ulfar and Argenta.
I am surprised my Pasqal is actually as good as the one of that video...

Basically if I have a coin each time someone complains about a boss being too hard on Steam...

[ChadwickSneedstein]

Your party is simply underwhelming and not properly built, probably your team members are force dividers rather than force multipliers, WOTR has the same thing by the end of the last chapter.


To be entirely fair, Pathfinder has more options for getting out of jail free, including, worst case, summoning a bunch of skeletons to literally body block enemies. But, yes this game can be really easy or really hard if you have the wrong build.

I will say, the second fight is legit annoying. It's by no means hard, but damn is it annoying.

[Khloros]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

No, there are difficult boss fights then there are borken mechanics.

At no point should a crpg game or table top, have your characters surviving thruohg out the game, maybe struggling on some fights, be getting total party killed before turn 1 is over, or on the very first move of the boss.

That is a balance issue, no party should be getting TPK'ed on turn one, That is a bad fight, in no RPG system should you be getting TPKed before turn one is over unless everyone of the player characters rolls a freaking 1, and the enemy rolls max rolls on everything.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Khloros:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

No, there are difficult boss fights then there are borken mechanics.

At no point should a crpg game or table top, have your characters surviving thruohg out the game, maybe struggling on some fights, be getting total party killed before turn 1 is over, or on the very first move of the boss.

That is a balance issue, no party should be getting TPK'ed on turn one, That is a bad fight, in no RPG system should you be getting TPKed before turn one is over unless everyone of the player characters rolls a freaking 1, and the enemy rolls max rolls on everything.

Um, there are plenty of RPG (West or East) where you can destroy/be destroyed in one turn.
In fact, I think some SMT fights are precisely building a strategy to prevent enemy's going first or tank enough to survive the first turn.

[Khloros]

And just because you can do that, does not mean its good.

No DM should be putting in a boss fight, that is so vastly scaled differently where it goes from
"Ok my party is able to handle this fight and it was difficult to the point of they almost lost 2 people"
tp
"Ok and the boss moves, and usues one ability and the party is TPK'ed"

Thats not balanced or the mark of a good DM in the table top world. Thats a piss poor balanced fight. Not even in Kingmaker and pathfinder did they ahve fights, that i encountered at least that would TPK me in one go, i had fights that would take a guy out from full to zero sure, but not the entire freaking party.

Like for example, teh defiler fight? That one was a bit of a pain that was a fair difficult fight, super annoying he went every turn and i did not think that was good but it was managable to rush someone into melee with him. I lost i think 1 person and half wounds on another, but it was fine.

Then it went, my party is killed in one go, and im using the grand strat cassia build, assassin yirlet and pasqal, the space wolf, argenta arch militant, you know those whol builds, dead before they can even go.

[Gastberend]

Originally posted by Khloros:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

No, there are difficult boss fights then there are borken mechanics.

At no point should a crpg game or table top, have your characters surviving thruohg out the game, maybe struggling on some fights, be getting total party killed before turn 1 is over, or on the very first move of the boss.

That is a balance issue, no party should be getting TPK'ed on turn one, That is a bad fight, in no RPG system should you be getting TPKed before turn one is over unless everyone of the player characters rolls a freaking 1, and the enemy rolls max rolls on everything.

The problem is that this is not a D&D RPG, its an entirely new franchise with novel RPG mechanics, people dont know how to make proper builds and the game is new, there is not much information thrown around, the game has issues that were not properly playtested or design, but certainly this is not the case.

The case of the video I posted early is evidence, that russian dude obviously knows how to play the game, but all the characters have flaws except for Cassia, Its a new game and people make mistakes, but if you can tank the entire fight with a single mutant psiker then its obvious that there is room for improvement in builds.

[REhorror]

Well, this is not a tabletop RPG, this is a video game.
One of the good things about Owlcat is that they are obviously making a video game, and not a TT RPG experience.

[ChadwickSneedstein]

Originally posted by Khloros:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Hard boss creates whine thread.
It's a pattern for Steam threads.

Cue the "it's not hard it's challenging/annoying/boring/tedious" chorus.

No, there are difficult boss fights then there are borken mechanics.

At no point should a crpg game or table top, have your characters surviving thruohg out the game, maybe struggling on some fights, be getting total party killed before turn 1 is over, or on the very first move of the boss.

That is a balance issue, no party should be getting TPK'ed on turn one, That is a bad fight, in no RPG system should you be getting TPKed before turn one is over unless everyone of the player characters rolls a freaking 1, and the enemy rolls max rolls on everything.

I'm genuinely curious, what's your party comp?

[Khloros]

Originally posted by Gastberend:

Originally posted by Khloros:

No, there are difficult boss fights then there are borken mechanics.

At no point should a crpg game or table top, have your characters surviving thruohg out the game, maybe struggling on some fights, be getting total party killed before turn 1 is over, or on the very first move of the boss.

That is a balance issue, no party should be getting TPK'ed on turn one, That is a bad fight, in no RPG system should you be getting TPKed before turn one is over unless everyone of the player characters rolls a freaking 1, and the enemy rolls max rolls on everything.

The problem is that this is not a D&D RPG, its an entirely new franchise with novel RPG mechanics, people dont know how to make proper builds and the game is new, there is not much information thrown around, the game has issues that were not properly playtested or design, but certainly this is not the case.

The case of the video I posted early is evidence, that russian dude obviously knows how to play the game, but all the characters have flaws except for Cassia, Its a new game and people make mistakes, but if you can tank the entire fight with a single mutant psiker then its obvious that there is room for improvement in builds.

Yes and no, yes there is making bad builds, but owlcat is notorious for making horribly busted encounters, see the house at the edge of time.