Stat/Characteristic Benchmarks & Sweet Spots

[Problem Dog]

Hey guys,

Struggling through character creation right now, and I’m having a hard time spreading stat points around too thinly. I’ve got an RP build in mind idea that may be too stat intensive. Basically a BS/WS dependent Arch-Mil that serves as a face character.

Q1: Was curious if there is a good sense of how much “investment” each characteristic requires to make it viable for use on a normal playthrough? A sweetspot, more or less.

(Ex. How much WS/BS should one aim for as a benchmark prior to relying on gear to round them out. Or how much TGH/STR/PER/AGI is needed as a baseline to remain viable in combat late game?)

Q2: Do we know if there are any hard stat benchmarks or cutoffs for equipment?

(Ex. STR 35 for heavy weapons / STR 45 for heavy armor with perks.)

Any insight appreciated, thanks for your help!

[Zsrai]

TGH is HP. Don't sweat it. STR is just more melee damage (and not much at that); don't sweat it after whatever breakpoints you need for gear. What type of armor are you wearing? If something heavy, AGi is bad since most of the benefit is Dodge. PER is good for reducing enemy dodge, but you can also just crank your hit % with BS or reduce enemy dodge with WS. Don't sweat either of those either, honestly. You really don't need to min-max unless you're on Unfair, and if you don't know the game or ruleset yet, you probably shouldn't play on Unfair.

Also, skills work party wide so you don't need to be the face, especially as a DPS Archetype. If you want all of the Fellowship skills, you should probably just roll an Officer and use skills that benefit from that stat.

[Problem Dog]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

TGH is HP. Don't sweat it. STR is just more melee damage (and not much at that); don't sweat it after whatever breakpoints you need for gear. What type of armor are you wearing? If something heavy, AGi is bad since most of the benefit is Dodge. PER is good for reducing enemy dodge, but you can also just crank your hit % with BS or reduce enemy dodge with WS. Don't sweat either of those either, honestly. You really don't need to min-max unless you're on Unfair, and if you don't know the game or ruleset yet, you probably shouldn't play on Unfair.

Also, skills work party wide so you don't need to be the face, especially as a DPS Archetype. If you want all of the Fellowship skills, you should probably just roll an Officer and use skills that benefit from that stat.

Great feedback, thanks!

From what you’re describing, it sounds like for a DPS archetype I can gloss over most of the major non-weapon characteristics except AGI (if I’m not using heavy armor), with PER as secondary. How much do you think would be “enough” point spread to target those skills?

I haven’t made any choices about armor yet, but will probably keep it medium unless heavy is really “that” much better. Also I don’t have any plans to play on Unfair yet - this will be my first playthrough.

I do understand that stats are shared and that Officer would be a better choice for FEL, just didn’t want to have a subordinate be the face for RP reasons.

[White sun]

So in regards to Arch Militant build specifically, I wouldn't sweat getting WS or BS any higher than 50 which is enough for the first turns. You will get +5 BS and WS from every versatility stack, so they will shoot through the roof anyway.

Toughness is usually buffed by Cassia so much that you also don't need to go beyond 40-50-ish.

Wil, Int and Fel are largely irrelevant in this build. Perception can help with hit chance, but your WS and BS are gonna be so high so it also doesn't matter.

So this leaves us with 2 stats, which don't get infinitely buffed and provide tangible bonuses: Agi and Str.

Strength gives you damage, Agility gives you dodge and initiative. You will be critting a lot, so + base damage is very good. However initiative also matters and dodge is sweet.

I would go up to like 60-ish Str if you go with two-handed melee build and put the rest into Agi just for initiative.

Edit for ranged: Get enough Str to carry weapons that you want and armor that you want and pour the rest into Agi.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Problem Dog:

Basically a BS/WS dependent Arch-Mil that serves as a face character.

If you are going Warror/AM then focus WS. If you are going Soldier/AM then focus BS. AM offers a talent that gives +BS bonus to WS and +WB bonus to BS, which means that whichever is lower will get some love later, and that's probably all you will need, honestly. Stacks of Vigilance each raise WS and BS by five, so if you alternate your attacks to build it quickly, then your lower stat will quickly be good enough to get the job done, even without putting any characteristic increases into it.

That frees you up to raise Fel (or Int, if your origin is Forge World and you take the talent to use Int instead for social skills) to push your social skills high enough to be useful.

Your third characteristic to focus is up to you, based on other details of your build. I wouldn't focus Str for the damage bonus; it is negligible. Soldier/AM can focus Agility and get full dodge w/medium armor from a talent. Warrior/AM might want Tgh for that front-line durability. Per might be good if you want the character in front to also be good at spotting traps. There's no wrong answer, as long as you have a plan, stick to it, and don't just spread the points around without need.

I wouldn't try to focus more than three characteristics on one character.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by Problem Dog:

Hey guys,

Struggling through character creation right now, and I’m having a hard time spreading stat points around too thinly. I’ve got an RP build in mind idea that may be too stat intensive. Basically a BS/WS dependent Arch-Mil that serves as a face character.

Q1: Was curious if there is a good sense of how much “investment” each characteristic requires to make it viable for use on a normal playthrough? A sweetspot, more or less.

(Ex. How much WS/BS should one aim for as a benchmark prior to relying on gear to round them out. Or how much TGH/STR/PER/AGI is needed as a baseline to remain viable in combat late game?)

Q2: Do we know if there are any hard stat benchmarks or cutoffs for equipment?

(Ex. STR 35 for heavy weapons / STR 45 for heavy armor with perks.)

Any insight appreciated, thanks for your help!

You can always respec your character. Well, not always, but after you become a Rogue Trader and get your ship.
If you go melee, AGI and WS are your primary stats, Warrior is your first career pick.
STR doesn't give you anything. 1 damage per 10 STR is laughable, versatility stacks give you much more even in the first round of combat.
45 STR needed for heavy armor IF you want to go for heavy armor. I wouldn't tho, AGI and dodge are far superior, and on top of it heavy armor reduces dodge by 50%. Also, AM can stack armor by just being better class, because why not.
35 STR is needed if you go for heavy weapon, but you already have Argenta for it. Two heavy weapon AMs are overkill and you are kind of lacking a good tank.
As for social, if you go Arch-militant your social is you bolter, your sword and your authority. Just pick some lackeys with you and let them do the work. Game uses the highest skill score in the party for all skill checks, you don't really have to turn your character into skill monkey.

[Nether]

Minor problem: if you want your character to ACTUALLY be the one rolling those Social skills and not just have some Fel for show, you'll have to raise them - and I doubt they're all on the Warrior/Soldier list (Coercion might be, though).

So it's even more investment to unlock them with talents. Not necessarily a dealbreaker as the base arch-militant murder kit isn't huge, but something to keep in mind.
Maybe focus on only one of the Persuasion/Coercion/Commerce trio and let your subordinates deal with the others?

[erian]

You will need str if you want to use heavy equipment. Otherwise...
First always max you main attacking stat(you cant really get it too high since archetypes have rather strict limits on stats). As second- max your you main defensive stat(agi for light or medium armor and tgh for heavy, also most of the focused archetypes convert you defensive stat into damage). What remains - dump into per(you really dont need or want it, ouside of focusing on awareness, too much gear for reducing dodge exists). Dont rise fel if you dont go for officer or int if not going for operative. Only rise willpower if you go for psyker or as secondary stat for officer.
If you are going for arch militant dont try to rise both weapon stats. First it doesnt matter that much(its far worse to have 2 subpar stats, than one maxxed), second arch militant have talent that converts those stats into each other and third- arch militant will have those stats so high that you contribution from level ups will not matter

[Problem Dog]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

Probably should have clarified, but the build in mind is a Soldier/AM. Mostly considering an IMP/FORT world background with a Comm origin for RP flavor. The allure of AM was that I still wanted my RT to dabble with melee, and Soldier/AM seemed like the better launch point since its skills are a little more agnostic.

Nether made a good point, as I don’t think FEL may even be a skill I can level with this build. I’ll try to focus down on coercion instead - thematically appropriate.

Based on all of your feedback, I’ll try:
+ BS/WS @ 50 (Min) (BS Priority)
+ TGH/PER/FEL @ 40 (Level Coercion Afterward)
+ AGI @ Max Possible

- STR/INT/WIL @ Base

After some thought, I don’t have any intention to go heavy weapons or use heavy armor. I see my RT as more of a mid range, fairly mobile combatant that can defend himself in melee.

[Zhein]

Counterpoint :

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2307596441885368853/D2ECEFB7556E36623CBDCDEE4F2771C9FB2DB7D3/

0% strenght check at 60 str xD

[Nether]

That's what happens when Abelard skips leg day.

Edit: since I do understand the allure of jack of all trades I'll toss extra two cents: Forge World Criminal Operative is pretty good at being second-best at a great lot of stuff, including melee combat, ranged combat and a good 80% of the skills.

It's not a Bursting Arch Militant or an Officer (or Cassia), but I had interesting results.

[64nabla64]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Also, skills work party wide so you don't need to be the face

Mainly true, however there are a few circonstance where its not the case. There is a section in act 3 where you are alone for a bit the time you recover your companion 1 by 1. I will not say more on what happen to avoid spoilers.

[Halophile 2.0]

Originally posted by White sun:

So in regards to Arch Militant build specifically, I wouldn't sweat getting WS or BS any higher than 50 which is enough for the first turns. You will get +5 BS and WS from every versatility stack, so they will shoot through the roof anyway.

Toughness is usually buffed by Cassia so much that you also don't need to go beyond 40-50-ish.

Wil, Int and Fel are largely irrelevant in this build. Perception can help with hit chance, but your WS and BS are gonna be so high so it also doesn't matter.

So this leaves us with 2 stats, which don't get infinitely buffed and provide tangible bonuses: Agi and Str.

Strength gives you damage, Agility gives you dodge and initiative. You will be critting a lot, so + base damage is very good. However initiative also matters and dodge is sweet.

I would go up to like 60-ish Str if you go with two-handed melee build and put the rest into Agi just for initiative.

Edit for ranged: Get enough Str to carry weapons that you want and armor that you want and pour the rest into Agi.

STR seems to be a pretty ♥♥♥♥ stat to increase if you want more damage as it only gives you 1 more damage per 10. Stacking as much BS and WS as possible is more optimal as it improves chance to hit and critical hit chance. WS also increases parry chance if you are in melee so all the more reason to increase over STR.

[Draken]

Originally posted by Halophile 2.0:

STR seems to be a pretty ♥♥♥♥ stat to increase if you want more damage as it only gives you 1 more damage per 10. Stacking as much BS and WS as possible is more optimal as it improves chance to hit and critical hit chance. WS also increases parry chance if you are in melee so all the more reason to increase over STR.

I am pretty sure that there are quite a few more Abilities and Talents that scale with STR if you go for melee. There are some for WS, but those are more rare. And WS is easier to buff than STR.

[Halophile 2.0]

Originally posted by Draken:

Originally posted by Halophile 2.0:

STR seems to be a pretty ♥♥♥♥ stat to increase if you want more damage as it only gives you 1 more damage per 10. Stacking as much BS and WS as possible is more optimal as it improves chance to hit and critical hit chance. WS also increases parry chance if you are in melee so all the more reason to increase over STR.

I am pretty sure that there are quite a few more Abilities and Talents that scale with STR if you go for melee. There are some for WS, but those are more rare. And WS is easier to buff than STR.

STR bonuses are insignificant for damage.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by Draken:

I am pretty sure that there are quite a few more Abilities and Talents that scale with STR if you go for melee.

Nop

Originally posted by Draken:

There are some for WS, but those are more rare.

WS gives hit, crit and parry. Also damage in case of Arch-Militant. This is more than enough on it's own.

Originally posted by Draken:

And WS is easier to buff than STR.

And STR is useless. Even if you go full STR you'll get like 5 base damage by act 4. Meanwhile you won't be able to deal any damage 'cause of low hit rate and won't survive 'cause of low parry. Even TGH is better for melee.
Again, in case of AM versatility is the main damage source. In order to stack it, AM has to survive at least first round. AGI gives dodge, WS gives parry and TGH gives wounds. STR adds nothing to survivability, therefore it's useless. Getting 45 STR would be decent if there was a way to reduce dodge penalty for using heavy armor. But since there's no way to do it, STR is garbage for melee AM.