Unkillable Bloodletter on Prison Planet Leading to Game Over = Game Breaking Mechanic

[RazorKitten]

Edit - Rewritten to be more clear. Some comments refer to an earlier version.

I just went to the prison planet which is the second location I've been to since being able to move around freely. First room there were some prisoners, a guy throwing grenades from behind a gate and Idira summoned a Bloodletter that was impossible to fight and wiped out my entire party in a couple of turns. He has more hp than my whole party combined, counterattacks every melee attack and only takes 1hp damage from my ranged attacks. Plus it appears in the middle of my party so I can't get to shooting distance without getting attacked and instantly killed.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF THE GAME, it is about having a situation where the ONLY option is to reload a save file and hope it doesn't happen again. And I shouldn't have to read an Encyclopaedia to get a hint that I might suddenly Lose The Game without warning.

I don't think I explained this properly before:

The Bloodletter is IMPOSSIBLE to defeat at this stage of the game. It has nothing to do with tactics, skill or understanding how the game works. It would still be impossible even if I had read every single word of the wiki instead of yknow playing the game I bought to play (which already has a LOT of text to read).

All I wanted to do is ask the people who made the game if this was their intention or if it might be an oversight. There really shouldn't be unwinnable situations in narrative games that are purely RNG determined. Or maybe there should, I don't know any more.

[katzenkrimis]

Git Gud.

Kidding.

I don't even remember that fight.

I just remember that that the Tzeentch fight in the sewers was the only one that wiped half my party on normal difficulty.

Nothing else in Chapter One was a problem.

Chapter Two was when I ran into my first fight from hell.

[pascal.difolco]

A Bloodletter ?? On the prison planet ??? Where ??
You mean the boss that tortures the other guy and keep resurrecting ?
Spoiler :

Destroy the mirror/projector objects from afar

[Wraith]

I don’t remember a blood letter at all

Did you trigger a warp phenomenon with a pysker

[ferreirajc87]

The Bloodletter showed up because of Idira it has nothing to do with the fight. See the problem is you don't actually know what you're doing because you didn't know Idira could spawn in demons. If you didn't know that what else don't you know? That prison fight is actually very easy.

[CXXXV]

Idira's gimmick is she occasionally summons demon when she cast spell. You can try again and hope better RNG, or don't use spell until later on

[G Willikers]

Originally posted by ferreirajc87:

The Bloodletter showed up because of Idira it has nothing to do with the fight. See the problem is you don't actually know what you're doing because you didn't know Idira could spawn in demons. If you didn't know that what else don't you know? That prison fight is actually very easy.

The game doesn't really explain the warp corruption mechanic very well.

To OP the bloodletters and warp spawn appear when you overuse warp powers. It's tracked on a bar at the lower left. Once it goes past 20, the veil between reality and the warp breaks down and random effects start happening. You got a real unlucky roll.

[x_equals_speed]

The game explains the veil mechanic quite well, but it doesn't explain that Idria makes anything interesting about the mechanic completely irrelevant and ignores the veil rating for her 1 in 20 chance to cause a top end problem every time she uses a power (So about once every three fights, depending on how many turns it takes and whether you try to get her to do anything interesting or just use her as a sub-par operative)

[G Willikers]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

The game explains the veil mechanic quite well, but it doesn't explain that Idria makes anything interesting about the mechanic completely irrelevant and ignores the veil rating for her 1 in 20 chance to cause a top end problem every time she uses a power (So about once every three fights, depending on how many turns it takes and whether you try to get her to do anything interesting or just use her as a sub-par operative)

Which um, would indicate that it doesn't explain the mechanic well

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by G Willikers:

Which um, would indicate that it doesn't explain the mechanic well

Veil Mechanic (which IS explained well) =/= Idira's 5% chance (which is NOT explained well)

They are two different mechanics, it only explains one of them badly...

[Star Paladin]

I just left from a boss fight at the end of a void ship I found. Lvl 17; the best armor and weapons I could find/buy equipped. My guys went first, and on his FIRST attack, boss retaliated, killing 2 of my guys and damaging 80% of another.

On bosses turn, he one shotted BOTH of my tanks. WTH? Super unbalanced.

[RazorKitten]

I did the fight again and there were no Bloodletters. It was actually so easy it was a bit boring so now I don't know what to do with the difficulty settings. I don't mind challenging fights but I really don't like hitting arbitrary brick walls in games and having to change settings or go back to a save file to continue.

I have no idea what a Veil Mechanic is so either it didn't explain it that well, or I forgot. Which is a possibility. Can someone tell me where it is in the game, I went back over the first few hours and couldn't see it.

Also I would like you to explain how a (mathetmatically) impossible to defeat demon (that is not related in any way to the area and quest) appearing with no warning whatsoever and killing my entire party is the result of me 'not knowing what I'm doing'? If there was a solution I was missing I would love to know what it was in case it happens again XD

[Draken]

Originally posted by RazorKitten:

I did the fight again and there were no Bloodletters. It was actually so easy it was a bit boring so now I don't know what to do with the difficulty settings. I don't mind challenging fights but I really don't like hitting arbitrary brick walls in games and having to change settings or go back to a save file to continue.

I have no idea what a Veil Mechanic is so either it didn't explain it that well, or I forgot. Which is a possibility. Can someone tell me where it is in the game, I went back over the first few hours and couldn't see it.

Also I would like you to explain how a (mathetmatically) impossible to defeat demon (that is not related in any way to the area and quest) appearing with no warning whatsoever and killing my entire party is the result of me 'not knowing what I'm doing'?

[L] Opens up the Corpus Valancius, which is an ingame wiki.

You can find all tutorials, including the Veil Degradation one there.
There is also a Mechanical Dictionary there that explains both terms as well.

The lore explanation is that using psychic powers is very dangerous and can cause all manners of mayham. Including letting demons manifest. Espcially if you have an unsanctioned psyker like Idira. Though the chance of actually summoning a demon seems to be pretty low. I only got two in total while reaching chapter 2.

[Marcos_DS]

The problem wasn't difficulty, but also its unlikley regular Veil Degregation in this area since the Veil isn't starting high there.

Idira is an unsanctioned Psyker. This means a better PSY rating, but it also means that you have a 5% chance to trigger Perils of the Warp ANYtime you use psyker power. 5% is relatively low, but it happens from time to time. Most of the time, the effect is minor, like some flavor text, minor loss of momentum or low damage. But on rare occations it can mean a demon gets through, some even drop Idira instantly (till end of fight, not permadeath).

So while the chance is low, using Idira always means a small risk.

That risk gets bigger if you have high veil degregation - then all pysker powers (not just Idira, and not just a 5% chance) will trigger perils. But this can be managed by getting talents that reduce veil degregation for your psykers and Cassia. Cassia esp can get a talent that makes any navigator power reduce veil degregation, so if you heavily use a psyker, also heavily use her abilities and you should be fine. However starting act 2, those extra demons spice the fights up so some (*cough*) like to make perils happen...

[Tyran]

So you died once and immediately came here to cry about it instead of attempting to understand the game's mechanics or just retrying the fight even once.

[Morgian]

Razorkitten:
As someone above already said: Idira is the culprit. As unsanctioned psyker she has a 5% chance to summon demons whenever she uses a power, and that has nothing to do with the veil rating. In exchange her psy rating is higher by 1. Many people have decided to make her a benchwarmer because of this handicap.

Next: I have bad news. If you think a bloodletter is difficult. In act 3 even the minions can have 300 hitpoints and lets not talk about the endfight. Fights get definitely harder and require you to use your abilities well.

Some people have been cheesing/cheating their way through the game, and I can already hear their rears and screams when they no longer can do several thousand damage in one hit.
If you are not abusing the bug, you can still win these fights, but you need a solid party. When an ability grants additional attacks, take it (e.g. Seize the Moment, some ultimates and others). If it gives more hitpoints, take it. Anything that grants movement or improves a core ability of the class is OK. Forget dodge, it won't help you for long. Anything that grants your team armor or deflection is good. Any handy debuff, especially if free, is good. Give everyone medicae skill so they can use medpacks. Later on there are better packs and some classes have an affinity with them.

Some people claim that every fight should end in one round, but without the cheese we look most likely at 2-5 rounds. Yes, some fights can be ended in one round, even against a 500 hitpoint mob. The 2nd chaos marine died before he even had a round. But don't reckon on it. The battlefields often don't allow an easy placement, and when surprised you cannot change position. The various pillars, walls and so on make it even more unlikely to have a free shooting season.

So how do you slaughter a marine in one round? By multiple attacks of course, and enough buffs to make them hit. Lets start off with Voice of the Emperor and an operative debuffs armor and dodge of the marine. Someone hand Argenta Seize the moment to start her off. She can use a flamer and turn on run-and-gun for a bolter burst. Depending on where she is in initiative she might get her round next, burst once and use her ultimate. Later, as Arch-Militant she would by now hit for 40 per shot and have a 95% chance to hit, and could now use a free attack from the stacks of verstaility, before she gets another Seize the Moment from a second officer. If you gave your team Grenadier, that are six free attacks per fight, if you want to spend the grenades.
Voice of the Emperor + Lasting Impression allow your officers to use their powers on her despite distance or line of sight throughout the battle. I am using Argenta, but you can use any fighter and build him into your cannon.