Cassia seems significantly stronger than my psyker main char :D

[Nutcracker]

I dont know what it is about the navigator but her spells deal a lot more damage, some have huge aoe, she regens a LOT every turn and is generally completely impossible to hit.

Im not entire sure why, but she always goes first, can always use damaging spells 3 times on her first round.

With certain boots she racks up so much dodge she can never be hit.
If she lands one good aoe twice she has several hundred % dodge chance. ??

I am not sure if people can view my screenshots but i took a few of her having around 400% dodge and 650% dodge or something. Ridiculous.

[~ Fabulous ~]

well navigator are more powerful than normal psyker, the head of the navigator called the Paternova is like a super saiyan.

[Duke Fleed]

Yea shes a beast. Got one more eye than you so theres that. She would go first if you gave her the grand strategist archetype.

[Harukage]

Psyker with psi-rating 0 and without any psyker passives are trash. Yes, but...
Cassia just turns into a pure support character closer to the midgame, exactly becasue she does not have psi-rating to increase to begin with, or any worthwhile psyker passives for damage.
Psyker with psi-rating 2+ >>> Cassia.

[Megapewpew]

Originally posted by ~ Fabulous ~:

well navigator are more powerful than normal psyker, the head of the navigator called the Paternova is like a super saiyan.

This is incredibly wrong at least in terms of battle performance. I dont know why people just make ♥♥♥♥ up.

[Megapewpew]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Psyker with psi-rating 0 and without any psyker passives are trash. Yes, but...
Cassia just turns into a pure support character closer to the midgame, exactly becasue she does not have psi-rating to increase to begin with, or any worthwhile psyker passives for damage.
Psyker with psi-rating 2+ >>> Cassia.

0's are normal humans and 1's are rarely getting picked up by ships or being sent to Adeptus Astra Telepathica; most of the basic sanctioned psykers are going to be around Iota, Theta, and, Eta and considering the feats you can achieve as a psyker in this game in battle, you are at least a Zeta or Epsilon.

Navigators can not keep up, at least from a battle perspective. Now are their feats incredibly impressive and important? Of course, the Imperium would crumble without them, but the idea that they are more powerful then your average sanctioned psyker(let alone unsanctioned) is a weird cope some people on this forum have.

[Lightmgl]

Her offensive power isn't the problem like the OP said its those boots that have an uncapped dodge % increase for using her powers. So shes not only an offensive powerhouse but I can just run her into the middle of the enemy after her first turn and she tanks better than my tanks.

I'm not sure they really thought about the Grand Strategist free first turn either when they designed her. If that strategist turn didn't allow you to use Nav powers it would be an entirely different situation with her.

[~ Fabulous ~]

Originally posted by Megapewpew:

Originally posted by ~ Fabulous ~:

well navigator are more powerful than normal psyker, the head of the navigator called the Paternova is like a super saiyan.

This is incredibly wrong at least in terms of battle performance. I dont know why people just make ♥♥♥♥ up.

dude many navigator can banish a demon by just looking at them, most psyker can't even control their power let alone banish a demon, not only that, a null can't really effect Navigator power like they did with psyker, sure the strongest Navigator can't compete with psyker in the like of The Emperor, Malcador or even Magnus, but who in the Imperium does in 40k?

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Lightmgl:

Her offensive power isn't the problem like the OP said its those boots that have an uncapped dodge % increase for using her powers. So shes not only an offensive powerhouse but I can just run her into the middle of the enemy after her first turn and she tanks better than my tanks.

Her offensive power is pretty high as well, especially with the Master Tactician bug (fixed now maybe?). But anyway, she can stack willpower very very quickly especially with officers (doubling up both No Respite and Master of Time), and then her power scales off willpower exponentially (base damage increased multiplied by an increasing multiplier from that one talent that causes enemies to take increased damage every time the Navigator damages them)

Also it 100% ignores armor/cover/dodge/hit chance.

[Megapewpew]

Originally posted by ~ Fabulous ~:

Originally posted by Megapewpew:

This is incredibly wrong at least in terms of battle performance. I dont know why people just make ♥♥♥♥ up.

dude many navigator can banish a demon by just look at them, most psyker can't even control their power let alone banish a demon, not only that, a null can't really effect Navigator power like they did with psyker, sure the strongest Navigator are can't compete with psyker in the like of The Emperor, Malcador or even Magnus, but who in the Imperium does in 40k?

They can banish greater demons IF they were summoned, but they are not a main force for combat against them in the imperium, grey knights dont even use them for combat. If you are a sanctioned psyker you do control your powers to a degree and if you are a primas psyker you 100% can take down demons easier then navigators under normal circumstances. And if we are talking edge cases like Cassia, we are edge cases too considering what we can do in game.

If you think navigators are more combat efficient then anything outside of alpha plus or higher, I really dont know what to tell you, other than I have dunno where you are getting this idea from other then maybe Rites of Passage? But even in there you dont see them putting them on the same level you seem to be, and that book only shows them to be a threat to psykers with lower willpower(like chaos sorcerers) and look into the eye. The Lidless Stare is scary but Navigators are more fragile outside of that(hence why you dont see them traveling in battle formations with Grey Knights).

In the Rogue Trader core rulebook it shows that the Stare has a willpower check, so if the willpower of a psyker is strong enough, they can overpower the effects and if you resist the temptation to look into the navigators eye you even get a bonus to resist the damage. Also Navigators are effected by blanks too, the stare doesnt work on them either any warp user is scared of blanks, outside of maybe Libarians, since they still will gib you with their staff or hammer.

Also the stare doesn't affect unliving targets, Untouchables, and daemons or other entities from the Warp.

The only thing I can think of is you are going off of 30k rules where it used to be insta if you looked at the eye?

[Khloros]

In terms of powers and warp manipulation, navigators are much better at it then your average sanctioned psyker.

Navigators have a very deep connection to the warp and control over it, this is canon and covered in the lore quite a bit. Sanctioned psykers are not, they arnt the ones helping ships through the warp.

Thats not to say some psykers are not stronger then Navigators, because there are plenty of them, just your average psyker wont be, especially compared to one who is the head of a house as well.

That said cassia is just OP as hell because her entire class scales off of just 2 attributes, and you can basically take every single test off those 2 attributes. Fellowship and Will power, so all you need to do is stack those 2, ignore everything else, and she will obliterate things.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Khloros:

In terms of powers and warp manipulation, navigators are much better at it then your average sanctioned psyker.

Navigators have a very deep connection to the warp and control over it, this is canon and covered in the lore quite a bit. Sanctioned psykers are not, they arnt the ones helping ships through the warp.

Thats not to say some psykers are not stronger then Navigators, because there are plenty of them, just your average psyker wont be, especially compared to one who is the head of a house as well.

That said cassia is just OP as hell because her entire class scales off of just 2 attributes, and you can basically take every single test off those 2 attributes. Fellowship and Will power, so all you need to do is stack those 2, ignore everything else, and she will obliterate things.

Perception and Willpower are her main attributes for Navigator stuff. Fellowship is mostly just for officer/tactician stuff which is secondary to her navigator powers. Also she gets a talent that gives her fellowship for every navigator talent she takes, which should boost you by 20-25 fellowship in the end making her officer stuff good enough without sinking your attribute points directly into it.

[Megapewpew]

Originally posted by Khloros:

In terms of powers and warp manipulation, navigators are much better at it then your average sanctioned psyker.

Navigators have a very deep connection to the warp and control over it, this is canon and covered in the lore quite a bit. Sanctioned psykers are not, they arnt the ones helping ships through the warp.

Thats not to say some psykers are not stronger then Navigators, because there are plenty of them, just your average psyker wont be, especially compared to one who is the head of a house as well.

Are you getting this from Rites of Passage? Because sure a vetran and noble of the house can be stronger then an Iota or MAYBE an Eplsilon but beyond that I'm not seeing any feats that put them touching even the feats of Delta Psykers.

[Hathur]

I leave her on the ship for narrative reasons... it makes NO sense whatsoever for a Navigator to be put into danger in ground combat ,they are an extremely important / vital aspect to ship travel (in lore a ship can't travel the warp without one, you would get lost in the warp). There's just no way any leader of the imperium would endanger a navigator by sending them into ground combat. They are a rare and precious "resource", not a common foot soldier or even an Astartes which is highly expendable compared to a navigator. It irks me that she's even a conventional companion in that sense.. she should have been strictly a narrative companion that you can talk to on the ship, she has no business going into combat.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Hathur:

I leave her on the ship for narrative reasons... it makes NO sense whatsoever for a Navigator to be put into danger in ground combat ,they are an extremely important / vital aspect to ship travel (in lore a ship can't travel the warp without one, you would get lost in the warp). There's just no way any leader of the imperium would endanger a navigator by sending them into ground combat. They are a rare and precious "resource", not a common foot soldier or even an Astartes which is highly expendable compared to a navigator. It irks me that she's even a conventional companion in that sense.. she should have been strictly a narrative companion that you can talk to on the ship, she has no business going into combat.

Fair, but I think the average Rogue Trader would probably value their own lives even more. Meaning that you would sooner risk your Navigator than go on mission yourself, and you're obviously going to be going yourself anyway.

Everything else is replaceable. While in the game you only have 1 navigator and 1 ship (at least to start with, after one of Cassia's events other navigators do show up), in lore you would have several of both. Hell just going through the warp at all is risking the life of your navigator so you'd need a backup for that.

[Voodoo]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Psyker with psi-rating 0 and without any psyker passives are trash. Yes, but...
Cassia just turns into a pure support character closer to the midgame, exactly becasue she does not have psi-rating to increase to begin with, or any worthwhile psyker passives for damage.
Psyker with psi-rating 2+ >>> Cassia.

Try master tactician, hes the best aoe in my group though i still use her as support for my mc arch militant.