Is dodge chance cosmetic?

[FrozenSpace342]

I've got an agility based melee fighter as my main character. Has an 80% dodge chance with a psycher ability. I go star port and get to the second fight. Gets attacked 5 times, 1 dodge 4 hits and shes dead. After about half a dozen reloads She always gets hit more than she dodges or parries and then dies. Am i missing something to do with dodge chance, as far as I can see no enemies have weapons that nullify dodge chance and she has no negative statuses.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by Daliena:

Okay, so how would you present it as an abstraction, given that there are multiple modifiers to it -outside- of your character? As it stands, I can darn well tell that my Argenta is dodgier than my MC, because she has 105% dodge before any outside modifiers, while my MC has 30%.

I don't have enough of a grasp on all the mechanics in the game to make much useful suggestion....

you'd just make it say "dodge 80" instead of "dodge 80%"

because then the player would go "wtf does dodge 80 mean??" and have to look it up, and learn the game mechanics in the process.

[just.dont.do.it]

If you really want to dodge in RT, your total dodge should be way above 100. Around 150 is okay for Daring, around 200 for Unfair.

Same with armor if you want to tank. Smallest amount of it for proper tanking is around 130, but you'd want all the way to around 180.

[MOK]

Originally posted by Moffin Bovin:

you'd just make it say "dodge 80" instead of "dodge 80%"

because then the player would go "wtf does dodge 80 mean??" and have to look it up, and learn the game mechanics in the process.

Yes and no.

If we're moving out of the realm of percentages, then the system can use the numbers differently. They don't have to all be huge highly granular numbers, for example. Maybe it could be dumped down to 1-10, which is a mild change, but does contribute to simplifying our understanding. For example, that's why D&D doesn't really futz around with D100's, and why White Wolf, who just absolutely insists on stupidly crunchy games, likes using D10.

But crucially, YES, it clearly communicates that "since you can assume very little from this number, you should start reading." And then no one gets blindsided the way the current system does.

But as I said earlier, I think something deeper than that would be better. This is just a bare minimum change that ought to happen.

[Drake]

This is why percentages in character sheets are always a bad idea. It's so easy to misinterpret them. Whereas a threshold value is always clear. If you have dodge 50, that means you must roll under 50 to dodge. So you know you have to look for modifiers.

I know newbies like them because they are afraud of numbers, but really percentages in crpgs are traps. Learning the rules in an rpg is as much part of the game as playing it.

[MOK]

Originally posted by Drake:

This is why percentages in character sheets are always a bad idea. It's so easy to misinterpret them. Whereas a threshold value is always clear. If you have dodge 50, that means you must roll under 50 to dodge. So you know you have to look for modifiers.

I know newbies like them because they are afraud of numbers, but really percentages in crpgs are traps. Learning the rules in an rpg is as much part of the game as playing it.

I was with you until that last sentence. It's great when a system allows for interesting options and exploration, but there's a threshold of madness that designers must not cross. I think Dodge Reduction is a step out of that threshold.

[Drake]

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by Drake:

This is why percentages in character sheets are always a bad idea. It's so easy to misinterpret them. Whereas a threshold value is always clear. If you have dodge 50, that means you must roll under 50 to dodge. So you know you have to look for modifiers.

I know newbies like them because they are afraud of numbers, but really percentages in crpgs are traps. Learning the rules in an rpg is as much part of the game as playing it.

I was with you until that last sentence. It's great when a system allows for interesting options and exploration, but there's a threshold of madness that designers must not cross. I think Dodge Reduction is a step out of that threshold.

On that matter, as I always say, crpg are often better off just copying tabletop rules, which are far simpler to use for a human. Dodge reduction as it is has no purpose here.

[I Denizen I]

It's pretty easy, the game uses a D100 system.

You physically cannot roll over 100.

Enemies get the same combat modifier availability as the players, IE they get guns that reduce your defensive stats (dodge/Deflection/Armour/Parry) they get skills, talents and abilities that also can reduce your def stats.

The game system originally had a hard cap system, you could never gain more than +60 or -60 to any check, I do not know if the game developers kept this system or not.

I do know any stat shown to be over 100% has a 95% chance of success and a hard coded 5% failure chance, before anything else is applied to the check, you always have a 5% chance of failing.

If your Dodge chance is 140% it simply means, you have a 45% value your enemy has to reduce to lower your Dodge below 95%.

In the original source material, you could dodge once per round or twice with a talent, you get shot 3 times, you get no check on that 3rd attack, if they rolled a hit, you're hit, weather your dodge is 10% or 100%, it is possible here they added a cumulative penalty that is applied on every dodge chance beyond the first you make each round, instead of the one or two checks the original system has.

It's a pretty opaque system, d100, positive and negative modifiers.

[I Denizen I]

And just to add quickly, it's no different than people have an armour reduction value, that is directly opposed by a weapon penetration value.

Or are you guys saying you think your armour always reduces all damage by 80%? (example number).

[Aria Athena]

Against some mobs, 80 dodge is very much cosmetic. They have like 50 perception and Las gun with 30 dodge reduction, you literally gave 0% chance to dodge if you check the logs.

[corisai]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

I got characters with 130-140 dodge, and these characters still regularly get hit by ranged attacks. So as to the question of "how much dodge do you really need?"

~180 against las-weapons.

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Dodge is capped at 95%. So say if you have 200% dodge after all the deductions the most you can have is 95% it is the same with Armor.

[Fingusa of the East]

I have only just started RT but I do feel like Owlcat is gonna boost enemy numbers quite a lot. They did that with Kingmaker, they did that a lot with Wrath, see no reason why they would not do it this time as well considering we are still buying their games.

I mean, they throw a freaking Chaos Spawn at you in the first couple hours of the game. My players would probably scream at me if I did that to them.

Kinda reminds me of one of my old Dark Heresy players who tried to make a "warhammer sneaky archer" only to then get gunned down by the third heretic the group had to fight.

People really need to get the fact that this ain't D&D/Path. The numbers are kinda stacked against you. Usually tell people to have more of a Call of Cthulhu mentality. Doesn't help that DH/RT have a lot of stat pitfalls that players can fall into and the whole thing is not very well documented on tabletop. Means no easy to access guides etc.

Hell, be glad this game has a pretty easy to access encyclopedia of mechanics.

Grimdark future of Warhammer kinda sucks for the average humie.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by JimmysTheBestCop:

Dodge is capped at 95%. So say if you have 200% dodge after all the deductions the most you can have is 95% it is the same with Armor.

But is the cap before or after enemy dodge reduction? I'm pretty sure it's after, but that means that with 200% dodge against an enemy with 40% dodge reduction, you'd get hit almost 50% of the time.

[talemore]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by JimmysTheBestCop:

Dodge is capped at 95%. So say if you have 200% dodge after all the deductions the most you can have is 95% it is the same with Armor.

But is the cap before or after enemy dodge reduction? I'm pretty sure it's after, but that means that with 200% dodge against an enemy with 40% dodge reduction, you'd get hit almost 50% of the time.

Is it really % or is it just

200 - 40 = 160

Or

200 x 0,6 = 120

20% or 60% is a huge difference

One you are almost running nude and the other you are praying to RNG

But let's talk about cover.

Since it uses Xcom rules 1/2 becones stronger than 1/1 cover because they also misses the cover 50%

[Miss P.]

Originally posted by MOK:

Originally posted by Miss P.:

no, it is not. Just put down the difficulty or change some options. You can customize everything in options, that's great.

"There's no problem! Just bypass the problem!" lol

Honestly in retrospect, I wish we were back in 35 ac land, because at least then we understood exactly where we stood.

honestly it is not a real life problem lol

you can right click on a roll and see what their math looks like.