The game feels outdated

[Gleitfrosch]

Many QoL features which I undertand as standard in today games are missing and the game reminds me of the early cRPG games I played 20 years ago.

Be it the "do your own math" descriptions of skills where I get a formula instead of a value and need to calculate if the skill makes sense (including the required research to undertstand what the skill actually does) or the minimalistic map, where I have to guess where I should go next without the option to mark a specific quest as the "main quest"and get a marker on the map. Even today I can set a route on my mobile to see the best route to my goal.

The game surely has its fans and the story is interesting, but compared to "todays industry standard" cRPG games it lacks many basic features, which I would expect from a game relased in 2023. I cant get rid of the feeling that owlcat has not managed to do the step from a niche hardcore cRPG game developer towards a broader audience.

Animations and graphics are also avarage, but thats something I can deal with, if the other parts of the game would be good.

[Coldhands]

Origineel geplaatst door Lord_WC:

Origineel geplaatst door Gleitfrosch:

And of course I could do all the calculations on my own (guess what, even without a calculator!)

Considering the most complex calculation is something in the ballpark of (1+INT or FEL bonus whichever is higher)/2 I am very proud of you.

What you fail to understand is that you aren't asking for streamlining and QoL you are asking the game to be dumbed down. That's why people disagree with you.

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

[lyonesse2]

To be blunt, I love the old school approach Owlcat takes with their games.

Minimap and quest markers are an annoyance as they're rarely made optional, so I'm glad they aren't here.
I'm fine with the tooltips since they also serve to guide players in their attribute choices. Which, while not really that important on the difficulty I play on, will become very important on higher difficulties. And let's face it, the math isn't really hard.

[gurugeorge]

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

Origineel geplaatst door Lord_WC:

Considering the most complex calculation is something in the ballpark of (1+INT or FEL bonus whichever is higher)/2 I am very proud of you.

What you fail to understand is that you aren't asking for streamlining and QoL you are asking the game to be dumbed down. That's why people disagree with you.

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

Again, to be fair, the final numbers ARE shown in the character sheet under the Features tab (where your abilities and talents are shown as little rectangles). There you see the final number, and you get the formula on hovering over the final number.

I suppose they aren't shown when you pick the abilities because those final numbers are contextual and depend on your build (which would include other picks you make on level-up).

[Coldhands]

Origineel geplaatst door gurugeorge:

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

Again, to be fair, the final numbers ARE shown in the character sheet under the Features tab (where your abilities and talents are shown as little rectangles). There you see the final number, and you get the formula on hovering over the final number.

I suppose they aren't shown when you pick the abilities because those final numbers are contextual and depend on your build (which would include other picks you make on level-up).

I know, but while you’re choosing talents is really when you want to know exactly what they do. Anything to make looking through that massive list of talents quicker.

[Warbird]

I like that the calculations and modificators are well explained.

Just reading that a skill does +5 damage with that character would not be enough information. I need to know how and why that skill grant +5 dmg with that specific character.

Thank you Owlcat for giving all the details of every actions and skills used in the game!

[Gleitfrosch]

Origineel geplaatst door I Denizen I:

Origineel geplaatst door Lord_WC:

Considering the most complex calculation is something in the ballpark of (1+INT or FEL bonus whichever is higher)/2 I am very proud of you.

What you fail to understand is that you aren't asking for streamlining and QoL you are asking the game to be dumbed down. That's why people disagree with you.

Well said.

it's not.

It's "who needs a car if we have horses" thinking. A game is not dumbed down becasue it uses the advantages of automatic calculation a PC offers so the player can completely focus on playing the game itself.
A game lives from its story and the complexity of its world, not from formulas to show how complex the beackground calculation mechanics are (although the calculations are not).

A dumbed down game is e.g. Elder Scrolls online, where riddles have been reduced to "interact with an object until the game tells you, you clicked on it often enough".

[Croc]

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

Origineel geplaatst door Lord_WC:

Considering the most complex calculation is something in the ballpark of (1+INT or FEL bonus whichever is higher)/2 I am very proud of you.

What you fail to understand is that you aren't asking for streamlining and QoL you are asking the game to be dumbed down. That's why people disagree with you.

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

Its not they are just big babies who are crying because they finally found something they think is some special skill they have. Some of the talents already show the end result with the calculation hidden behind a right click. Notice though not a single person defending this barbaric ui choice has adressed why nor have they put up a genuine argument as to why not all talents can't be this way.

[Croc]

Origineel geplaatst door gurugeorge:

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

Again, to be fair, the final numbers ARE shown in the character sheet under the Features tab (where your abilities and talents are shown as little rectangles). There you see the final number, and you get the formula on hovering over the final number.

I suppose they aren't shown when you pick the abilities because those final numbers are contextual and depend on your build (which would include other picks you make on level-up).

Then explain why there are talents on that in the level up screen show the number of the bonus and have the formula behind a right click of the number. You can't because you know the talent ui is horrible so you just avoid anything that inconvenient to the argument you try to make.

[Coldhands]

Origineel geplaatst door BMO:

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

I don’t think wanting the tool tips to show final numbers in addition to the formulae is asking to dumb down the game.

Its not they are just big babies who are crying because they finally found something they think is some special skill they have. Some of the talents already show the end result with the calculation hidden behind a right click. Notice though not a single person defending this barbaric ui choice has adressed why nor have they put up a genuine argument as to why not all talents can't be this way.

Yeah, I've noticed the tooltips aren't all consistent in how they're written. Which I take as an indication there are probably too many and some of them are purposely bad. : \

[G Willikers]

I mean I can do equations but that usually isn’t what I buy an rpg to practice. It would be kind of nice if right clicking on the skill would give you more information

[blaque_czar]

Origineel geplaatst door Black Hammer:

The "do your own math" is there so you can understand and plan out the scaling of things, as opposed to a useless and opaque value.

Bro, why did you type this out, even worse, why did you click Post Comment? One of the most asinine replies to a valid criticism I've ever read.

[katzenkrimis]

Origineel geplaatst door Federal Agent Rex:

Changing it to be more "modern" wouldn't make it a CRPG anymore.

Then it would be Witcher II and beyond.

Fake role-playing games that appease the masses. The console cretins.

Action/Adventure games that today are labelled RPG's.

[BeelzeBob]

Origineel geplaatst door katzenkrimis:

Origineel geplaatst door Federal Agent Rex:

Changing it to be more "modern" wouldn't make it a CRPG anymore.

Then it would be Witcher II and beyond.

Fake role-playing games that appease the masses. The console cretins.

Action/Adventure games that today are labelled RPG's.

Rofl...there's nothing wrong action RPGs or the people who enjoy them. You liking old school CRPGs doesn't make you better than other people.

[Warbird]

Origineel geplaatst door BeelzeBob:

Origineel geplaatst door katzenkrimis:

Then it would be Witcher II and beyond.

Fake role-playing games that appease the masses. The console cretins.

Action/Adventure games that today are labelled RPG's.

Rofl...there's nothing wrong action RPGs or the people who enjoy them. You liking old school CRPGs doesn't make you better than other people.

Exactly. In games like Assassins Creed Odyssey and Valhalla there are a lot of numbers and equations for every skills and items you equip and I love it. It is great to understand how things work and just not be thrown a final number you have no idea where it comes from.