the utter lack of offensive Psychic Powers suc#s

[Schutzengel]

Hello all,

what I really want is to throw a simple Fireball for starters. Pyromancy consists of a single target DoT and a line of fire damage. At Psy Rating 0 I do 0-4 damage with the DoT. LOL.

IMO, thats just plain useless. The label of Pyromancy states:
- creates infernos (= plural) out of thin air
- most spectacular
- and destructive

Yet, "infernos", "spectacular" and "destructive" for me suggests this should be the branch of Psykers that have the most damaging and AoE powers even at the cost of setting yourself or allies on fire.

At its current lineup of powers, IMO, it plainly suc#s.

.

Then there is the Telepath branch with the best (?), and only other, AoE psychic power.

Everything else is dependant on offensive psykers staff powers, of which are the chain lightning and maybe 1 or 2 more.

.

I mean, Psykers are really good at debuffing enemies and even more so at buffing allies, but IMO, the selection of available offensive powers is totally lacking any Ooomph. I really want to play as a Wizard / Sorcerer, but cant.

Is it just me, or do some of you share this sentiment?

Sincerely.

[just.dont.do.it]

Your sanctioned psyker will start doing anything serious in offensive at psy level 2+.
That's a few dozen hours into the game. Earlier you should stick to guns.

[tainawoman]

Can't fail to see that nowadays almost all companies tend to put restrictions on how you should play the game (Stellaris) and nerf mages (all of them, but especially BG3) so as to not become too powerful. F*** it! In WOTR I was a Godess!

I wish to let mages be overpowered. Not everybody wants to play them.

[XartaX]

The only time in this game where psykers are subpar is during the prologue. And that's only on lower difficulty (on higher difficulty their autohit makes up for their lower damage early on).

Once you're in Act 1, psykers are on par. When you finish the first system psykers start outscaling the rest if you know what you're doing. If anything psykers are too strong.

[Rogal Dorn]

Originally posted by Drake:

I see people complaining about the lack of psyker class. But rogue trader pnp doesn't have a psyker class, it's done in the same way, you pick psyker rating at character creation choose either sanctioner psyker or rogue psyker.

The sanctioned psyker career is in only war and dark heresy, and the rogue psykers are in black crusade. Deathwatch has librarians.

In rogue trader instead of sanctioned psykers we have the astropath tanscendent career, which is not present in the game.

Astropaths are psykers, it's just a more specific subset of them that fits the setting (a rogue trader's retinue) better.

[XartaX]

Originally posted by Rogal Dorn:

Originally posted by Drake:

I see people complaining about the lack of psyker class. But rogue trader pnp doesn't have a psyker class, it's done in the same way, you pick psyker rating at character creation choose either sanctioner psyker or rogue psyker.

The sanctioned psyker career is in only war and dark heresy, and the rogue psykers are in black crusade. Deathwatch has librarians.

In rogue trader instead of sanctioned psykers we have the astropath tanscendent career, which is not present in the game.

Astropaths are psykers, it's just a more specific subset of them that fits the setting (a rogue trader's retinue) better.

Anyone can be a psyker. It's not limited to astropaths in RT or Mystic in DH2. They just start with initial PR for "free" (part of their package).

[Rogal Dorn]

Originally posted by XartaX:

Originally posted by Rogal Dorn:

Astropaths are psykers, it's just a more specific subset of them that fits the setting (a rogue trader's retinue) better.

Anyone can be a psyker. It's not limited to astropaths in RT or Mystic in DH2. They just start with initial PR for "free" (part of their package).

So there is a class that is a psyker that starts with a higher PR to reflect training and experience. People are expressing a desire for that.

[Krakers]

Originally posted by Drake:

I see people complaining about the lack of psyker class. But rogue trader pnp doesn't have a psyker class, it's done in the same way, you pick psyker rating at character creation choose either sanctioner psyker or rogue psyker.

The sanctioned psyker career is in only war and dark heresy, and the rogue psykers are in black crusade. Deathwatch has librarians.

In rogue trader instead of sanctioned psykers we have the astropath tanscendent career, which is not present in the game.

Nor there is Assassin (also dark heresy), officer, operative or warrior (dark heresy 2nd ed). So I'm not sure if I understand your point. Anyway, the game system seems like a weird mix of 1st ed and 2nd ed (as there is no even RT in 2nd ed) with plenty of stuff changed and added. So practically it is Owlcat's bespoke system that is only (very) roughly based on DH/RT PnP.

For me it seems that Psyker in the game is an afterthought. It seems like they had all of the systems already done (with their weird classless system) and then they've decided to add Psyker as why not. But since it didn't fit their classless system (or maybe a lack of time, dunno), they've decided to add it as origin while completely gutting it:
- Starting at PR 0 (lol) when in PnP you start at 1,
- Most powers completely changed (in bad way), some added, some moved to staffs, but the most interesting weren't included at all.
- limited amount of powers you can learn to use (at the same time).

It is like they wanted to have yet another game (after PF) which depends mostly on buffs and combos instead of actual Psyker powers.

[XartaX]

Originally posted by Rogal Dorn:

Originally posted by XartaX:

Anyone can be a psyker. It's not limited to astropaths in RT or Mystic in DH2. They just start with initial PR for "free" (part of their package).

So there is a class that is a psyker that starts with a higher PR to reflect training and experience. People are expressing a desire for that.

The CRPG uses it's own system. In RT/DH for example every 10 toughness gives 1 deflection. The balance is just different. In this game you NEED the background to pick psyker abilities/talents in the first place.

[XartaX]

Originally posted by Krakers:

Originally posted by Drake:

I see people complaining about the lack of psyker class. But rogue trader pnp doesn't have a psyker class, it's done in the same way, you pick psyker rating at character creation choose either sanctioner psyker or rogue psyker.

The sanctioned psyker career is in only war and dark heresy, and the rogue psykers are in black crusade. Deathwatch has librarians.

In rogue trader instead of sanctioned psykers we have the astropath tanscendent career, which is not present in the game.

Nor there is Assassin (also dark heresy), officer, operative or warrior (dark heresy 2nd ed). So I'm not sure if I understand your point. Anyway, the game system seems like a weird mix of 1st ed and 2nd ed (as there is no even RT in 2nd ed) with plenty of stuff changed and added. So practically it is Owlcat's bespoke system that is only (very) roughly based on DH/RT PnP.

For me it seems that Psyker in the game is an afterthought. It seems like they had all of the systems already done (with their weird classless system) and then they've decided to add Psyker as why not. But since it didn't fit their classless system (or maybe a lack of time, dunno), they've decided to add it as origin while completely gutting it:
- Starting at PR 0 (lol) when in PnP you start at 1,
- Most powers completely changed (in bad way), some added, some moved to staffs, but the most interesting weren't included at all.
- limited amount of powers you can learn to use (at the same time).

It is like they wanted to have yet another game (after PF) which depends mostly on buffs and combos instead of actual Psyker powers.

Offensive psykers are way stronger in this game than tabletop. Can have psykers running around with like 15+ PR just deleting entire rooms.

[Krakers]

Originally posted by XartaX:

Originally posted by Krakers:

Nor there is Assassin (also dark heresy), officer, operative or warrior (dark heresy 2nd ed). So I'm not sure if I understand your point. Anyway, the game system seems like a weird mix of 1st ed and 2nd ed (as there is no even RT in 2nd ed) with plenty of stuff changed and added. So practically it is Owlcat's bespoke system that is only (very) roughly based on DH/RT PnP.

For me it seems that Psyker in the game is an afterthought. It seems like they had all of the systems already done (with their weird classless system) and then they've decided to add Psyker as why not. But since it didn't fit their classless system (or maybe a lack of time, dunno), they've decided to add it as origin while completely gutting it:
- Starting at PR 0 (lol) when in PnP you start at 1,
- Most powers completely changed (in bad way), some added, some moved to staffs, but the most interesting weren't included at all.
- limited amount of powers you can learn to use (at the same time).

It is like they wanted to have yet another game (after PF) which depends mostly on buffs and combos instead of actual Psyker powers.

Offensive psykers are way stronger in this game than tabletop. Can have psykers running around with like 15+ PR just deleting entire rooms.

I didn't say that offensive psykers are not strong in the game? Did I? 15+ PR is not something that you can achieve by Psyker without combos/heroics/buffs/items so you're just proving my point. Psyker in PnP also could easily "delete entire rooms" at higher PR with skills like Infrno or even Sunburst (2nd ed) or Firestorm (1st ed, which was considerably gutted in this game) especially with 6 or 10 PR.
Furthermore, possibility of having 10+ PR is just absurd from the lore perspective and would definitively cause you more harm than good especially in 1st ed.
Anyway, amount of damage that Psyker can deal in this game (especially after buffs/combos/items) wasn't my point.

[XartaX]

Originally posted by Krakers:

Originally posted by XartaX:

Offensive psykers are way stronger in this game than tabletop. Can have psykers running around with like 15+ PR just deleting entire rooms.

I didn't say that offensive psykers are not strong in the game? Did I? 15+ PR is not something that you can achieve by Psyker without combos/heroics/buffs/items so you're just proving my point. Psyker in PnP also could easily "delete entire rooms" at higher PR with skills like Infrno or even Sunburst (2nd ed) or Firestorm (1st ed, which was considerably gutted in this game).

You're not getting anywhere close to that PR in tabletop. Alpha psykers are stated at PR12, and your PC isn't going to be anywhere close to an Alpha (Casually mind controlling 100's of people, taking over the black ark ship they're put on, etc.).

[Solomon Kane]

I think the problem people have, is thinking that a Psyker is the same as Mage or Wizard.

They are not, you start with a Psy Rating of 0, not sure what people expect, the amount of abilities and Powers you have as a psyker are exstensive, especially since you are able to tap into all psyker classes at some point.

There is also a reason you are able to choose between all your non psyker abilities bound to your archetype, using actual psyker powers is dangerous in the warhammer universe and an actual psyker does NOT throw around fireballs and lightning strikes like candy at all.

[Irx]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Cassia falls off in terms of damage mid game. She does not hold a candle compared to normal psykers damage wise. She is however an exelent support character.

I'm in chapter 2 and she only got better, just got an achievement for 100+ damage per hit with her, when my other chars are doing 20-30 at best, and have to struggle with hit chances, friendly fire, range, armor etc. Cassia can spam her single target attack which always hits, ignores all protections and does ridiculous damage. Idira is nowhere near this strong even at psy 2, and she is bugged out for me, with a warp scale always 0 yet warp effects always on.

[Krakers]

Originally posted by Solomon Kane:

I think the problem people have, is thinking that a Psyker is the same as Mage or Wizard.

They are not, you start with a Psy Rating of 0, not sure what people expect, the amount of abilities and Powers you have as a psyker are exstensive, especially since you are able to tap into all psyker classes at some point.

There is also a reason you are able to choose between all your non psyker abilities bound to your archetype, using actual psyker powers is dangerous in the warhammer universe and an actual psyker does NOT throw around fireballs and lightning strikes like candy at all.

The point is you shouldn't start with PR of 0 and ideally should be a separate class instead of origin.

Originally posted by XartaX:

Originally posted by Krakers:

I didn't say that offensive psykers are not strong in the game? Did I? 15+ PR is not something that you can achieve by Psyker without combos/heroics/buffs/items so you're just proving my point. Psyker in PnP also could easily "delete entire rooms" at higher PR with skills like Infrno or even Sunburst (2nd ed) or Firestorm (1st ed, which was considerably gutted in this game).

You're not getting anywhere close to that PR in tabletop. Alpha psykers are stated at PR12, and your PC isn't going to be anywhere close to an Alpha (Casually mind controlling 100's of people, taking over the black ark ship they're put on, etc.).

Do you mean I'm not getting close to PR 15 or deleting entire rooms?
I can get to PR 15. Nothing prohibits the GM to give me item with +9 PR (in 1st ed) or +5 (in 2nd ed) lol or go above rulebooks limits. Only limit is that it would be absurd (as in this game) as even at 10 in 2nd ed you're at level of greater Tzeentch demons.
Deleting entire rooms is also possible Normal humans have ~12 wounds in 2nd ed (and you can increase it by max + 2xyour toughness bonus) and chaos spawn around 35, whereas Inferno at 10PR (and I can push it to 12) is dealing 32-50 dmg in 100m radius. So good luck having 20+ toughness bonus + Armor (assumingthat it was rolled 1 on the damage and power armour has only 8 AP). Calculations in 1st ed are significantly harder, due to the fact of how the rolls are afecting powers like Firestorm, but theoretically you could deal >5d10+5 with Firestorm. So good luck surviving that.

The point is that at 6PR you're considerably weaker than Psyker from PnP at 6PR with less powers to choose from and to use and less disciplines.

Edit. By they way what do you mean by "Alpha psykers are stated at PR12" as even in 1st ed at PR6 you are "The greatest human potential with Psychic powers". I've already mentioned 10 PR in 2nd ed above as well. And theoretically you should be above alphas then no? Since you're PR is 15+ in the game. So why cannot you "Casually mind controlling 100's of people, taking over the black ark ship they're put on, etc"? Even according to your own words it doesn't make sense no?

[Rogal Dorn]

Originally posted by Solomon Kane:

I think the problem people have, is thinking that a Psyker is the same as Mage or Wizard.

They are not, you start with a Psy Rating of 0, not sure what people expect, the amount of abilities and Powers you have as a psyker are exstensive, especially since you are able to tap into all psyker classes at some point.

There is also a reason you are able to choose between all your non psyker abilities bound to your archetype, using actual psyker powers is dangerous in the warhammer universe and an actual psyker does NOT throw around fireballs and lightning strikes like candy at all.

People expected a psyker class like in Rogue Trader the RPG system that could be useful with psychic abilities from the start.