the utter lack of offensive Psychic Powers suc#s

[Schutzengel]

Hello all,

what I really want is to throw a simple Fireball for starters. Pyromancy consists of a single target DoT and a line of fire damage. At Psy Rating 0 I do 0-4 damage with the DoT. LOL.

IMO, thats just plain useless. The label of Pyromancy states:
- creates infernos (= plural) out of thin air
- most spectacular
- and destructive

Yet, "infernos", "spectacular" and "destructive" for me suggests this should be the branch of Psykers that have the most damaging and AoE powers even at the cost of setting yourself or allies on fire.

At its current lineup of powers, IMO, it plainly suc#s.

.

Then there is the Telepath branch with the best (?), and only other, AoE psychic power.

Everything else is dependant on offensive psykers staff powers, of which are the chain lightning and maybe 1 or 2 more.

.

I mean, Psykers are really good at debuffing enemies and even more so at buffing allies, but IMO, the selection of available offensive powers is totally lacking any Ooomph. I really want to play as a Wizard / Sorcerer, but cant.

Is it just me, or do some of you share this sentiment?

Sincerely.

[Myth Alric]

I see a lot of people mentioning this. It depends on your build though, and they do get stronger over time.

[Daliena]

There is more AoE in the Pyromancer abilities too. Firestorm takes Ignite on one enemy and spreads it to everyone around them. Inflame increases the amount of damage done by burning (as well as immediately triggering it when used).

In talents, Backdraft means that every time you cast a damaging spell, a random nearby enemy takes half that damage as well. Burning Blood causes damage to enemies close to you whenever you use a psychic power, or take damage from fire/bleeding/melee. And Sparks of the Greater Flame is unique in letting your DoT effects crit - for bonus fun, take a side of Biomancer to get Biophysical Distortion, so not only are you setting your enemies on fire with your powers, but poisoning them too.

[AlexnChaos]

Honestly I quite like the Psykers in game, about my only complaint is having powers locked to Staves of all things, particularly iconic powers like Smite *Lightning Arc* and the like

[Neoz]

Yeah, psykers in RT have gone from "I stop bullets and literally shoot laser beams"
to
"I can be a mega tank, and slowly DoT you down while laughing the pain away"

seriously, a bio/santic/pyro deathworld warrior/vanguard In heavy armor is a nigh unkillable god that just gets stronger the longer the fight.

[zastcat]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

I see a lot of people mentioning this. It depends on your build though, and they do get stronger over time.

still feels disappointing that psykers went from a full on class in the rpg to a few powers you can use alongside your class in this... and that most of the power people talk about when they mention pyromancer is down to the fact that it benefits from very specific damage boosts but doesn't meet the condition to actually expend them (arguably an exploit)

Originally posted by Daliena:

There is more AoE in the Pyromancer abilities too. Firestorm takes Ignite on one enemy and spreads it to everyone around them. Inflame increases the amount of damage done by burning (as well as immediately triggering it when used).

which still means you have to have multiple rounds of setup (ignite on target in round 1 expends your use of attacks, you can still use orchestrate flames to remove the test to end the burn and inflame can be used even without a burning target to start building up the damage but it's going to be a very slow increase, round 2 you're using another attack to spread it to things around your target... if there are any) to do damage comparable to what most characters are going to be dishing out en masse

I'll give them credit for giving pyromancy as a psychic discipline in this when the actual rogue trader rpg didn't have it (technically the disciplines it had were telepathy, telekinesis, biomancy, sanctic, and voidfrost, you had to go to the other fantasyflight 40k rpgs to find pyromancy) but then the translation of it to this was... lacking, in the other rpgs it was a direct damage heavy discipline with some additional effects thrown in alongside it you could jump straight from being in a fight to "the entire room is now fire strong enough to reduce people to ash immediately"

pyromancy isn't even the only victim here, most of the disciplines in this have had their standard offensive abilities offloaded to force staves which, among other things, means some iconic and powerful abilities are limited to rare weapons you can go ages without seeing or being able to attain, force weapons in general got the shaft in this, not only do the staves not count as force weapons for some reason but the only things that do seem to be a couple swords that are quickly outpaced by mundane weaponry without any upgrades in sight

[PoohPus]

Idira and Cassia are by far the most powerful companions when you get them, both psykers. A starting character can't rely on psykic powers, so don't. Midgame they start to shine.

The real problem is that so many psyker talents and abilities are bugged. Pyro and Sanctic are particularly plagued by this and are among the worst character choices at release. You could be a powerful psyker from lv 7 on if the best psyker talents had worked (and you build them right), but right now being an early game psyker as a PC isn't a great plan, pyromancer and Sanctic in particular. Idira and Cassia are still your best companion assets however, despite both being psykers, so the problem is not psykers or psykic powers.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by zastcat:

which still means you have to have multiple rounds of setup (ignite on target in round 1 expends your use of attacks, you can still use orchestrate flames to remove the test to end the burn and inflame can be used even without a burning target to start building up the damage but it's going to be a very slow increase, round 2 you're using another attack to spread it to things around your target... if there are any) to do damage comparable to what most characters are going to be dishing out en masse

Not that I've tried it personally, but wouldn't Sister Argenta be happy to lend a hand on initially setting people on fire with a heavy flamer, or does that not work?

[PoohPus]

However, difficulty level could play a big part in how psykers compete, come to think of it. I play at daring difficulty and burst weapons show their limitations at this level. Could be that Argenta and PC soldiers are more dominant at lower difficulty settings. Pretty sure psykers are more dominant the higher the difficulty rating of your game.

[zastcat]

Originally posted by PoohPus:

Idira and Cassia are by far the most powerful companions when you get them, both psykers. A starting character can't rely on psykic powers, so don't. Midgame they start to shine.

The real problem is that so many psyker talents and abilities are bugged. Pyro and Sanctic are particularly plagued by this and are among the worst character choices at release. You could be a powerful psyker from lv 7 on if the best psyker talents had worked (and you build them right), but right now being an early game psyker as a PC isn't a great plan, pyromancer and Sanctic in particular. Idira and Cassia are still your best companion assets however, despite both being psykers, so the problem is not psykers or psykic powers.

going to be the annoying person on the internet for a moment, cassia isn't a psyker, navigators are recipients of a genetically engineered mutation passed down for generations that lets them look into the warp and act as a limited channel for its power but they lack the naturally occurring connection to it that psykers have (which actually keeps them much safer than a psyker since they're not technically in direct contact with it at all times), it's basically like comparing a bird to something with flight capable wings grafted to it, there's similarities in what they can do but the differences are glaring

in game that's even clearer with how cassia works, while psykers are constantly filling the perils of the warp bar with their abilities cassia can actually take talents that *reduce it* every time she casts something

[brago90]

Pyromancy needs a rework, it's simply too weak and dysfunctional (It would also be nice if pyromancy had visual effects...).

Most staffs are too weak:
The divination staff is useless.
The telepathy staff is a weaker version of one of the telepathy spells.
The pyromancy staff is cool but it lacks damage and you only make good use of it with a pyromancer marksman (it's a burst shot).
The biomancy staff is good because it does acceptable damage and also heals you.
I haven't tried the Santic staff yet so I can't speak.

In conclusion, the generic staff is the best, specifically the version that has access to the enhanced versions of lightning.

Force swords are decent but only if you constantly use the sword's psychic attack.

I have no complaints about the rest of the psyker specializations, they are what they promise and in some cases more than they promise.

[Harukage]

First of all Psi-rating 0 is the main problem, you start dealing real damage at least at 2. And at that point your Pyro psyker can make multiple casts per turn through various abilities and buffs.
A combo of soldier and arch-militant is a good way to do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of offensive actions per turn. And then add an officer companion to boot. And that will allow you to do insane aoe+DOT with pyrokinetics. then you can switch to shooting when the Veil is too thin.
My PC Telepath/Pyrokinetic psyker Soldier/Arch-Militant is a walking nuclear warhead. Literally.

[Entaris]

Originally posted by Harukage:

First of all Psi-rating 0 is the main problem, you start dealing real damage at least at 2. And at that point your Pyro psyker can make multiple casts per turn through various abilities and buffs.
A combo of soldier and arch-militant is a good way to do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of offensive actions per turn. And then add an officer companion to boot. And that will allow you to do insane aoe+DOT with pyrokinetics. then you can switch to shooting when the Veil is too thin.
My PC Telepath/Pyrokinetic psyker Soldier/Arch-Militant is a walking nuclear warhead. Literally.

Yeah I made a thread on that, it's so bizarre.

in the FFG TTRPG the Psyker career there starts at PsyRating 2 by just picking the Career Path. then you can squeeze out a couple more through various drawbacks and origins and the like (which was a trade off, sinec you were giving up some other pretty substantial backgrounds for those purchases)

AND, iirc you also get a new ability or Discipline each time you do it, too.

(On top of way better gear. Like, monosword)

Edit: BTW, this is all if you're only going Core Careers, not anything expanded, Xenos, or Corrupted

Meanwhile, with this reinvented wheel of a system OwlCat came up with, I could do more with a knife against an armored IG grunt.

That said, Fortress World Diviner/Soldier is doing me pretty well, but I will admit that I simply don't use the ONE ability I have Psy wise ,except on Alebrand (which I immediately replace on PsyGirl's turn because the difference on that ONE ability alone is like 3% more dodge)

But the extra WP base keeps me at 25 NSS at all times. I love a 1/4 chance to shoot three times.

[Drake]

I see people complaining about the lack of psyker class. But rogue trader pnp doesn't have a psyker class, it's done in the same way, you pick psyker rating at character creation choose either sanctioner psyker or rogue psyker.

The sanctioned psyker career is in only war and dark heresy, and the rogue psykers are in black crusade. Deathwatch has librarians.

In rogue trader instead of sanctioned psykers we have the astropath tanscendent career, which is not present in the game.

[Irx]

The best psyker is Cassia, she does more damage than my whole squad combined and is not even considered a psyker.

[Harukage]

Cassia falls off in terms of damage mid game. She does not hold a candle compared to normal psykers damage wise. She is however an exelent support character.