Imperial Weaponry in the game, and my personal thoughts on it.

[SpacePirateKatz666]

I found out that the las weapons in the game, particularly way more powerful then the lore the generic ones that is able to penetrate through people.

and here I thought las weapons are at strength 3 and penetration factor of - as it is the laughing stock of the whole warhammer 40 community on how 'powerful the las gun is' the glorified 'flashlight'.

There are some variants of the las weaponry that are able to do that, just not all of it for an example a hot shot las gun or hell guns.

The Melta gun I feel is way far to weak as it just.. well disappoints when it fires at people and it hits it should have make a horrible results if any hit a person at all, as it was designed for 'anti armor' operations.. aka melt the said person.

The plasma gun.. also feels kind of weak and also there is no dreaded it's going to blow up in your face if you shoot it to often.. or a chance that it does.. so a missed opportunity on this one.

[Entaris]

Don't forget the Bolter, which does exactly the same damage as everything else.

Youd figure "working closely with Games Workshop" would have created a more faithful reproduction of an already established set of mechanics.

[Daliena]

Tabletop balance (which is also bound to have been checked over by GeeDubs) says hi, to be fair.

If you'd like to compare, per Dark Heresy, a bog-standard Lasgun - 100m; S/3/-; 1d10 + 3 Energy; Pen 0; Two handed; Reliable

A bog-standard Boltgun - 90m; S/2/-; 1d10 + 5 Explosive; Pen 4; Two handed; Tearing

If anything, Owlcat's Rogue Trader turns the standard Lasgun into a wet noodle and gives the Boltgun extra power compared to how it was on the table.

[Alt]

Originally posted by Entaris:

Don't forget the Bolter, which does exactly the same damage as everything else.

Youd figure "working closely with Games Workshop" would have created a more faithful reproduction of an already established set of mechanics.

oh look. Someone ignores everything else beside damage numbers. How about look at armor penetration and overpenetration that las weapons dont have at all. Also, bolter does have bigger damage than most ranged weapons.

[Sir Brick]

Las weapon are stronger than the average rifles and rounds used today they most certainly should pierce. Plasma gun so far does feel under powered and wish it was stronger with a chance of a misfire and damaging you.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Sir Brick:

Las weapon are stronger than the average rifles and rounds used today they most certainly should pierce. Plasma gun so far does feel under powered and wish it was stronger with a chance of a misfire and damaging you.

I'm pretty sure lasguns -do- have overpenetration.. Could've sworn I've seen it happen now and then.

As for plasma guns, I have yet to actually find a rifle-sized variant, but the pistol is decent for when you run into something with huge defenses. A native 30% armor penetration, coupled with a 9-13 damage single-shot you can overcharge to boost the damage further is good for when a torrent of low-damage shots would just get eaten up by armor/deflection. Like Aurora.

[Draken]

Flashlights are a joke because they are compared to what walking humanoid tanks with rocket propelled grenades, literal demons and other fun stuff of the 40k universe.

If you would import them into our current world, I am pretty sure they would beat every other gun.

Having your weapon blow up on you is a delicate thing. Fun for stories, not fun for when you have only 6 characters in a video game. No one would use it if it could blow up.

As for the actual weapon balance, I didn't really notice anything standing out to me. Positive or negative.

[Alt]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Originally posted by Sir Brick:

Las weapon are stronger than the average rifles and rounds used today they most certainly should pierce. Plasma gun so far does feel under powered and wish it was stronger with a chance of a misfire and damaging you.

I'm pretty sure lasguns -do- have overpenetration.. Could've sworn I've seen it happen now and then.

As for plasma guns, I have yet to actually find a rifle-sized variant, but the pistol is decent for when you run into something with huge defenses. A native 30% armor penetration, coupled with a 9-13 damage single-shot you can overcharge to boost the damage further is good for when a torrent of low-damage shots would just get eaten up by armor/deflection. Like Aurora.

And there is also a better variants of plasma pistol and plasma rifle. The first basic one you find is just a "junk" version.

If las weapon over penetrates then it is a bug. Las main feature is dodge reduction. Overpenetration should be either at minimal or non existent.
Bolter's main features is armor pen and overpenetration.

[BallinStallin]

The long Las have over pen

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Alt:

If las weapon over penetrates then it is a bug. Las main feature is dodge reduction. Overpenetration should be either at minimal or non existent.
Bolter's main features is armor pen and overpenetration.

Nawh. Overpenetration is literally the schtick of autoguns (solid projectiles have +50% overpen). And I can see why bolter wouldn't be the king of overpen - after all, what's more likely to go in one end, come out the other and keep going? A solid metal slug, or a projectile that, y'know, famously explodes inside your ribcage once it's penetrated the armor?

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Draken:

Flashlights are a joke because they are compared to what walking humanoid tanks with rocket propelled grenades, literal demons and other fun stuff of the 40k universe.

If you would import them into our current world, I am pretty sure they would beat every other gun.

Having your weapon blow up on you is a delicate thing. Fun for stories, not fun for when you have only 6 characters in a video game. No one would use it if it could blow up.

As for the actual weapon balance, I didn't really notice anything standing out to me. Positive or negative.

If you imported the Lasgun into the modern world you would put every existing small arms manufacturer out of business overnight.

[zastcat]

Originally posted by Draken:

Flashlights are a joke because they are compared to what walking humanoid tanks with rocket propelled grenades, literal demons and other fun stuff of the 40k universe.

If you would import them into our current world, I am pretty sure they would beat every other gun.

Having your weapon blow up on you is a delicate thing. Fun for stories, not fun for when you have only 6 characters in a video game. No one would use it if it could blow up.

As for the actual weapon balance, I didn't really notice anything standing out to me. Positive or negative.

pretty much this, lasguns being useless is a meme because 40k as a whole is so over the top

everything in 40k has a wildly varying portrayal from amazing to useless but if we want to go with popularity the gaunt's ghosts series is a pretty nice example of how absurdly strong a lasgun actually is, in that they're pretty much on par with (possibly even slightly better than) a modern heavy machine gun... as a standard infantry rifle, that's not even bringing up hotshot lasguns which absolutely are able to deal with things like space marine armor

so you've got, as a standard weapon mass produced for untold trillions of people, something that is easily man portable, comparable to heavy weaponry by our standards, is only "weak" because it's being compared to what amounts to much rarer specialist weaponry for supersoldiers and weapons from aliens who are even more technologically absurd and being used against armor that outperforms anything we have with modern material science

for plasma the funny thing with them exploding in your hands is that technically (and this is actually a story element for why newer plasma weapons aren't as volatile) the imperium was, for thousands of years, building them so the overcharged state was standard

for bolters... those things are a technological monstrosity and also another weird example of "we could do better but we've got to produce enough for full armies", standard bolter rounds are both gyrojet and propellant based rounds, not only are gyrojets basically an abandoned concept for us now (cost is excessive and currently a single round costs about $200 and they were originally meant to be guns usable in space which... do I need to explain the danger of firing a gun in an environment already fully capable of killing you for the slightest mistake?) but they operate very differently from chemical propellant based rounds, 40k decided that wasn't cool enough so they decided to mix the 2 together... then also they threw in the words "mass reactive" which basically means the standard bolter round (both human and astartes sizes) has a variable fuse which is meant to measure the mass of whatever impacts and detonates at the optimal depth (if it manages to penetrate)

so the main thing people compare the lasgun to is, in essence, a gun that fires an armor piercing rocket like a bullet which then accelerates even more with its own engine, hits and (depending on the source) either detects the mass and toughness of what it hit and sets its fuse for the time until it reaches the optimal level of penetration *or* uses a preset for the material it's being shot at, then blows up... and all of those are just the cheaper replacement for volkite weapons

[Parallaxe]

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

Originally posted by Draken:

Flashlights are a joke because they are compared to what walking humanoid tanks with rocket propelled grenades, literal demons and other fun stuff of the 40k universe.

If you would import them into our current world, I am pretty sure they would beat every other gun.

Having your weapon blow up on you is a delicate thing. Fun for stories, not fun for when you have only 6 characters in a video game. No one would use it if it could blow up.

As for the actual weapon balance, I didn't really notice anything standing out to me. Positive or negative.

If you imported the Lasgun into the modern world you would put every existing small arms manufacturer out of business overnight.

Hello.

I had to laugh so hard when I read this. Ignorance is truly bliss.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Parallaxe:

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

If you imported the Lasgun into the modern world you would put every existing small arms manufacturer out of business overnight.

Hello.

I had to laugh so hard when I read this. Ignorance is truly bliss.

I mean.. A Lasgun is cheap and easy to build, easy to maintain (it's pretty much the AK-47 of sci-fi weapons in that respect), packs enough power in a base model without meddling with the power setting to blow a human limb off in a single shot, ammunition supply lines are almost completely eliminated because the power packs can be recharged by anything from a standard electrical outlet to sunlight to a campfire..

It is, frankly, an incredible weapon, simply overshadowed by the sheer torrent of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it's up against, and even then it's still a credible threat to a lot of them.

"The Legionnaire that scoffs at a lasgun has not charged across an open field against a hundred of them."

[Parallaxe]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Originally posted by Parallaxe:

Hello.

I had to laugh so hard when I read this. Ignorance is truly bliss.

I mean.. A Lasgun is cheap and easy to build, easy to maintain (it's pretty much the AK-47 of sci-fi weapons in that respect), packs enough power in a base model without meddling with the power setting to blow a human limb off in a single shot, ammunition supply lines are almost completely eliminated because the power packs can be recharged by anything from a standard electrical outlet to sunlight to a campfire..

It is, frankly, an incredible weapon, simply overshadowed by the sheer torrent of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it's up against, and even then it's still a credible threat to a lot of them.

"The Legionnaire that scoffs at a lasgun has not charged across an open field against a hundred of them."

Hello.

... now now. You do not have to say things like this just to make me laugh. It is obvious that you have no idea about real weapons and how they work or what is important.

Even if we are ignoring the fact that the lasgun does not make any scientific sense this weapon would not clear out the market. Would there be applications? Yes, but not even close to the amount you imagine.

The lasgun is like Star Wars's blaster just a random scifi gun thingy. Do not take it to serious.

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Parallaxe:

Originally posted by Daliena:

I mean.. A Lasgun is cheap and easy to build, easy to maintain (it's pretty much the AK-47 of sci-fi weapons in that respect), packs enough power in a base model without meddling with the power setting to blow a human limb off in a single shot, ammunition supply lines are almost completely eliminated because the power packs can be recharged by anything from a standard electrical outlet to sunlight to a campfire..

It is, frankly, an incredible weapon, simply overshadowed by the sheer torrent of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it's up against, and even then it's still a credible threat to a lot of them.

"The Legionnaire that scoffs at a lasgun has not charged across an open field against a hundred of them."

Hello.

... now now. You do not have to say things like this just to make me laugh. It is obvious that you have no idea about real weapons and how they work or what is important.

Even if we are ignoring the fact that the lasgun does not make any scientific sense this weapon would not clear out the market. Would there be applications? Yes, but not even close to the amount you imagine.

The lasgun is like Star Wars's blaster just a random scifi gun thingy. Do not take it to serious.

It is clear that you have no idea about real weapons, how they work and what is important.

A: They weigh in comparably to modern weapons.

B: They are line of sight energy weapons with zero bullet drop and far greater range.

C: They hit harder than anything modern except certain HMGs, and actually have a dial yield so you can reduce the power for more shots if you don't need better.

D: Their powerpacks contain more shots natively than any modern small arm with a standard magazine. (Lasguns batteries would also completely revolutionise the battery industry.)

E: They have armour penetration qualities better than modern ballistic firearms.

F: They're cheaper both to make and logistically. So cheap in fact feral worlds with no notable technology can produce them.

G: It is a speed of light weapon. If you are on target when you pull the trigger. You hit your target. End of story.

H: They're more rugged than any existing small arm. Both because of minimal moving parts and being designed for harsher environments than anything that exists on Earth.


The fact you think a weapon superior to every small arm we possess wouldn't render the existing market obsolete is a good sign you have a mental handicap you should get addressed.