heresy is way too unrealistic. No way you could get away with it

[VladK02]

During the electro-priest monastery, one of the dialogue lines is...
(heresy +3 or whatever) Back away from the console Aurora, im our new masters' favorite !!!

And Inquisitor's acolyte goes "Interesting choice of words"

Bruh. Thats not an "interesting choice of words". That's a bolt pistol to the temple right then and there. From the inquisitor boy, from the sister, from the not one but TWO psykers that can see literally everything youre doing, like stealing sword shards, making pacts with the warp... What kind of Emperor's servants are you lot?? Im balls-deep in chaos, right in plain sight!

I fully expected to have to kill the inquisitor boy in the temple. But no, he let it go. (At least, for now).

I feel that heresy in the game is too obvious, at least in chapter 1.

The Dogmatic choices of comedic 'execute everything and everyone for any slight whatsoever just because - then execute some more" - thats 40k staple, sure. Thats well done.

But heresy? Meh...

And if the Theodora or whatever, the original captain, was also a heretic - which she was, according to the xenos loot stash in her ship - then why are her (and now mine) companions not heretics?? Irida is just cool with witnessing chaos corruption everywhere and not speaking up? And same with the navigator chick?

[BingusDingus]

Yeah, it is a bit weird, whilst warrants of trade do allow you to associate with xenos to some degree, they however do not allow you to consort with chaos, such a thing would result in a forfeiture of your warrant and execution as a traitor to the imperium. The warrant can protect you against almost anything, except heresy.
Rogue traders have exceptional power, but only beyond the imperium, within the imperium they are still bound by imperial law and must follow it. I saw someone in these comments saying that every warrant of trade is different, which isn't true, there's different warrants but there's only one format of the warrant of trade, the only difference is in who issued it. Depending on who issued it you will have even more influence, if your dynasty has one signed by the emperor himself you're basically untouchable so long as you don't betray the imperium.

The whole purpose of rogue traders is to go beyond the borders of the imperium to find and settle worlds and then when the imperium expands they take control of these worlds and the rogue traders venture further again. Rogue traders are basically Pioneers that are given the right to do almost anything they please beyond imperial borders so long as it aligns and benefits the imperium, if they however become a serious liability and a threat they are dealt with.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

The path of heresy is such a characture of a cartoon villain I am just not going down the path, despite the fact I do in all the TTRPG's since n the Table Top there is more to chaos than just a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

[Entaris]

Автор сообщения: VladK02

During the electro-priest monastery, one of the dialogue lines is...
(heresy +3 or whatever) Back away from the console Aurora, im our new masters' favorite !!!

And Inquisitor's acolyte goes "Interesting choice of words"

Bruh. Thats not an "interesting choice of words". That's a bolt pistol to the temple right then and there.

You can start the game as little better than a Wych who you can have out-and-out SAY "I don't believe in the Emprah"

[Loquitran]

Автор сообщения: Tech-Priest

The path of heresy is such a characture of a cartoon villain I am just not going down the path, despite the fact I do in all the TTRPG's since n the Table Top there is more to chaos than just a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Owlcat is not very good at writing evil main character options. Like in WotR you would see on multiple conversation something like: "[Evil] I don't like you, die!"

Although I quite enjoy their evil companions.

[His Divine Shadow]

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Автор сообщения: E.

It's a video game they made slight compromises to make it work.

40k always has problems like this, The warrant of trade was signed by the Emperor himself, I believe. Not all warrants of trades are, and each warrant generally has its own conditions and powers based on many details.

These aren't just mass printed papers that someone signs to make legal.

RT are generally allowed to mess with heretical stuff if they warrant permits it long as they do not cross a redline.

Which is subjective to each warrant, as the players warrant was signed by the Emperor. That offers a ton of crazy protection, as going against the warrant would be seen as going against a direct order of the Emperor not even Inquisitors in that case can just do as they please against an RT with such a warrant as in the Imperium the Empire's will is the foremost authority and is second to none and if you ARE going to oppose that will.

You better have a REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL GOOD excuse and Evidence and it needs to through proper channels.

See inquisition is not exactly known for its restraint.

If inquisitor stepped out of line, the typical thing would be to introduce some agents to sabotage the plasma reactor onboard the ship and both rogue trader and warrant would be gone from the world and nobody would care whether the warrant allowed for any kind of heresy or not.

Thats all ofc without mentioning that no rogue trader will just show anyone their warrant of trade since its pretty "whoever have the ticket" kind of scenario and not even inquisitors are beyond installing a puppet rogue trader.

Incinerating a warrant signed by the emperor himself would be heresy of the highest order. Even suggesting it would end your bloodline.

[Voodoo]

Автор сообщения: His Divine Shadow

Incinerating a warrant signed by the emperor himself would be heresy of the highest order. Even suggesting it would end your bloodline.

See inquisition would argue that leaving it in hands of heretic would be even bigger affront...

These are same people who would go to war with space wolves over their objection to kill armaggedon population after war against angron.
Hell these are same people who attacked imperial palace on terra to get rid imperium of certain goge vandire.

[BingusDingus]

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Автор сообщения: His Divine Shadow

Incinerating a warrant signed by the emperor himself would be heresy of the highest order. Even suggesting it would end your bloodline.

See inquisition would argue that leaving it in hands of heretic would be even bigger affront...

These are same people who would go to war with space wolves over their objection to kill armaggedon population after war against angron.
Hell these are same people who attacked imperial palace on terra to get rid imperium of certain goge vandire.

I think if an inquisitor even considered burning it they themselves would be burned. The warrants signed by the emperor were signed with his own blood, they're considered holy relics of the highest degree.

[Voodoo]

Автор сообщения: BingusDingus

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

See inquisition would argue that leaving it in hands of heretic would be even bigger affront...

These are same people who would go to war with space wolves over their objection to kill armaggedon population after war against angron.
Hell these are same people who attacked imperial palace on terra to get rid imperium of certain goge vandire.

I think if an inquisitor even considered burning it they themselves would be burned. The warrants signed by the emperor were signed with his own blood, they're considered holy relics of the highest degree.

Well, every crux terminatus supposedly contains piece of emperor armor and nobody makes a fuss when marine chapters lose them in dozens every major engagement.

No sacrifice is too great if it is meant to preserve humanity.

[His Divine Shadow]

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Автор сообщения: His Divine Shadow

Incinerating a warrant signed by the emperor himself would be heresy of the highest order. Even suggesting it would end your bloodline.

See inquisition would argue that leaving it in hands of heretic would be even bigger affront...

These are same people who would go to war with space wolves over their objection to kill armaggedon population after war against angron.
Hell these are same people who attacked imperial palace on terra to get rid imperium of certain goge vandire.

They’d sooner commandeer/requisition a million IG to retake the warrant and then kill the survivors than risk destroying it. Like the other guy said, they’re not just any old holy relic. They’re “blessed” by the emperor himself, signed with his own blood.

[Voodoo]

Автор сообщения: His Divine Shadow

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

See inquisition would argue that leaving it in hands of heretic would be even bigger affront...

These are same people who would go to war with space wolves over their objection to kill armaggedon population after war against angron.
Hell these are same people who attacked imperial palace on terra to get rid imperium of certain goge vandire.

They’d sooner commandeer/requisition a million IG to retake the warrant and then kill the survivors than risk destroying it

Ah then you see, thats bigger issue, because while nobody will bat an eye for request for single assassin or a bomb, inquisitor requisitioning fleet to chase rogue trader is huge overstepping of their power.

Not only you concentrate alot of power in hands of single man but you also pull massive amounts of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

[His Divine Shadow]

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Автор сообщения: His Divine Shadow

They’d sooner commandeer/requisition a million IG to retake the warrant and then kill the survivors than risk destroying it

Ah then you see, thats bigger issue, because while nobody will bat an eye for request for single assassin or a bomb, inquisitor requisitioning fleet to chase rogue trader is huge overstepping of their power.

Not only you concentrate alot of power in hands of single man but you also pull massive amounts of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

Hard disagree, man. That inquisitor would be stamped excommunicate traitoris and hunted down. Not saying destroying a warrant in the hands of a heretical trader wouldn’t be good, just that that’s how it works in the imperium. I mean, the imperium has done the exact opposite of what the emperor wanted and the exact wrong things to stop chaos. They’ve created a nightmarish fascist hellscape that all but guarantees untold billions falling to chaos at the first offer of something more.

[soul like that be capable of]

Автор сообщения: VladK02

During the electro-priest monastery, one of the dialogue lines is...
(heresy +3 or whatever) Back away from the console Aurora, im our new masters' favorite !!!

And Inquisitor's acolyte goes "Interesting choice of words"

Bruh. Thats not an "interesting choice of words". That's a bolt pistol to the temple right then and there. From the inquisitor boy, from the sister, from the not one but TWO psykers that can see literally everything youre doing, like stealing sword shards, making pacts with the warp... What kind of Emperor's servants are you lot?? Im balls-deep in chaos, right in plain sight!

I fully expected to have to kill the inquisitor boy in the temple. But no, he let it go. (At least, for now).

I feel that heresy in the game is too obvious, at least in chapter 1.

The Dogmatic choices of comedic 'execute everything and everyone for any slight whatsoever just because - then execute some more" - thats 40k staple, sure. Thats well done.

But heresy? Meh...

And if the Theodora or whatever, the original captain, was also a heretic - which she was, according to the xenos loot stash in her ship - then why are her (and now mine) companions not heretics?? Irida is just cool with witnessing chaos corruption everywhere and not speaking up? And same with the navigator chick?

I think from what a i read . if you go into too much of this . some of them will leave your company . i just assume since rouge trader is such a high rank in the imperium no one will ever question them unelss they go really nuts

[I Denizen I]

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Автор сообщения: I Denizen I

What you just quoted states the following.

Outside the borders of the Imperium the RT is pretty much acting directly for the Emperor of Mankind, which begs the question "who cares, because we don't recognize the emperor or the imperium here." It's stating that for any Imperial institution that the RT is beyond any and all authority except the emperors and can purse any choice or course of action they deem fit, with the understanding what they are doing strengthens the Imperium of man.

Inside the borders of the Imperium, direct quote "Peer to the great powers of the Imperium." for all intents and purposes this makes them all powerful, or as equally powerful as the Inquisition, the Imperial Creed, SM Chapters, the Imp Navy and the Mechanicus, which means inside there spheres of influence no one can question them, until something momentus happens and a collection of said peers meets, reviews any evidence and then declares them "excommunicated traitors to mankind" then it's open season on them.

Until that happens though, no single Inquisitor or Navy commander is going to challenge them directly and try and make them submit, because they do not have the authority to do so.

This idea that an RT is only powerful outside the Imperium borders is frankly ridiculous, they own planets inside the Imperium, they can have seats on the High council of Terra, they have to come into the Imperium to get hold of equipment, staff, crew, specialists and as such they just say they need them, and they get them, does this sound like some body who is powerless inside the imperium? They make pacts and treaty's directly and as an individual with the Mechanicus ffs, they have serious and real clout inside and out.

Peer portion merely recognition of power wielded by rogue trader, not authority itself.

"The authority this Warrant grants begins where the Imperium ends."

The warrant itself is worded that way exactly because at some point in the future imperium will expand its borders and swallow rt holdings, its merely temporary license to do business because imperium works too slow, Even back during great crusade times rogue traders were merely forward scouts who would bring less defended worlds to heel before the crusade fleet arrived and took it from their hands.

Remember however this is 40k, youre guilty...period, suspicion of heresy itself is a crime. So when time comes to deal with rogue trader this is how its dealt with

"There are many ways in which a Rogue Trader might
earn the enmity of the Imperium’s authorities, but
few prove as drastic as the fate suffered by the Rogue
Trader Lord Galfit of the Line of Magnum. Prior to his
appointment as a Rogue Trader, Lord Galfit had served
on the fleet general’s staff for five decades, and had
made countless powerful enemies amongst the Calixis
Sector high command. These enemies had engineered
Galfit’s appointment, fully expecting him to overstep
his authority and afford them the revenge they had long
awaited. Three years after Galfit’s flotilla penetrated the
Koronus Expanse, he claimed a newly discovered world
for his personal domain, and quietly disposed of all of
the Imperial servants accompanying him who he felt
would not support his claim. Contact with Galfit’s fleet
was soon lost, and nothing was heard for a decade.
It was only when an Adeptus Mechanicus survey
fleet passed through the system that Galfit’s fate was
discovered. The Rogue Trader’s vessel was found in
orbit above the world he had claimed, but it was crewed
only by shrivelled corpses. The survey teams discovered
Galfit’s body seated upright in the command throne
of his bridge. Subsequent post-mortems determined
that a lethal poison had been released into the vessel’s
environmental systems, and the entire crew had been
slain within minutes. Although it was recorded that
a single lifeboat had been jettisoned soon after the
incident, no clue whatsoever was discovered to suggest
the identity of the assassin."

If you ever stand trial in 40k, its never to actually discover truth or to clear charges, at this point you are put up as a show as punishment is planned.
To truly clear you, you will be asked to put yourself up for torture or just kidnapped and forced into one so that confession might be gotten out of you.
If you want to avoid the above you should always act above reproach thats why most characters adopt particular ostentious displays of their faith.

You said one thing, I refuted it, and now you jumped some place else.

Rogue Traders inside and outside the Imperium are treated like the other institutions that run the Imperium, they are powers unto themselves, and they frequently clash with each other, I'm not sure what your last post was about, I mean it's pretty obvious anyone openly espousing "Go Chaos gods ra ra ra!!" is going to get annihilated pdq, but anyone doing that can expect that response, no one is safe publicly championing chaos.

But someone saying something in the middle of an investigation, to fool some cult muppets into betraying their hidden masters? well now that is a whole different kettle of fish, some random Imp guard grunt would be executed sure, but an Inquisitor? or a RT? or an Imperial Assassin? they get the benefit of the doubt because they are A trusted, B have the authority to do so.

I mean your own post states they are peers, do you need a dictionary definition of what being someones peer group means?

An Imperial Navy Admiral jumping into a system and seeing a fleet, would check for Imperial codes, and then ask for verification, soon as they heard back "I'm a RT" they would behave exactly the same as if it came back "I'm a SM", "I'm a Mechanicum", "I'm a Inquis" they are all Imperial institutions they have no direct control over, they are expected to work alongside them, support them or ignore them, the only time they would do anything would be specific and exact orders naming the fleet owner in question as a traitor.

You need to give up this idea that Inquisition is defacto the emperor to all other institutions, they are not.

And I'm saying this as someone who started playing 40k in the 80's, worked for GW for over a decade, has played just about every game made, board, PC, RP, Table top, read virtually every novel written produced by or under license by/for GW.
I can turn my head right and see the hardback rule books for RT, DH, OW and deathwatch.

[Innominatam]

Bingooooo but your wasting your time trying to explain that to this guy. He debunks himself, then tries to manipulate words to prove himself right and more despite the fact he has been proven wrong multiple times to be wrong.

[Voodoo]

Автор сообщения: I Denizen I

Автор сообщения: Voodoo

Peer portion merely recognition of power wielded by rogue trader, not authority itself.

"The authority this Warrant grants begins where the Imperium ends."

The warrant itself is worded that way exactly because at some point in the future imperium will expand its borders and swallow rt holdings, its merely temporary license to do business because imperium works too slow, Even back during great crusade times rogue traders were merely forward scouts who would bring less defended worlds to heel before the crusade fleet arrived and took it from their hands.

Remember however this is 40k, youre guilty...period, suspicion of heresy itself is a crime. So when time comes to deal with rogue trader this is how its dealt with

"There are many ways in which a Rogue Trader might
earn the enmity of the Imperium’s authorities, but
few prove as drastic as the fate suffered by the Rogue
Trader Lord Galfit of the Line of Magnum. Prior to his
appointment as a Rogue Trader, Lord Galfit had served
on the fleet general’s staff for five decades, and had
made countless powerful enemies amongst the Calixis
Sector high command. These enemies had engineered
Galfit’s appointment, fully expecting him to overstep
his authority and afford them the revenge they had long
awaited. Three years after Galfit’s flotilla penetrated the
Koronus Expanse, he claimed a newly discovered world
for his personal domain, and quietly disposed of all of
the Imperial servants accompanying him who he felt
would not support his claim. Contact with Galfit’s fleet
was soon lost, and nothing was heard for a decade.
It was only when an Adeptus Mechanicus survey
fleet passed through the system that Galfit’s fate was
discovered. The Rogue Trader’s vessel was found in
orbit above the world he had claimed, but it was crewed
only by shrivelled corpses. The survey teams discovered
Galfit’s body seated upright in the command throne
of his bridge. Subsequent post-mortems determined
that a lethal poison had been released into the vessel’s
environmental systems, and the entire crew had been
slain within minutes. Although it was recorded that
a single lifeboat had been jettisoned soon after the
incident, no clue whatsoever was discovered to suggest
the identity of the assassin."

If you ever stand trial in 40k, its never to actually discover truth or to clear charges, at this point you are put up as a show as punishment is planned.
To truly clear you, you will be asked to put yourself up for torture or just kidnapped and forced into one so that confession might be gotten out of you.
If you want to avoid the above you should always act above reproach thats why most characters adopt particular ostentious displays of their faith.

You said one thing, I refuted it, and now you jumped some place else.

Rogue Traders inside and outside the Imperium are treated like the other institutions that run the Imperium, they are powers unto themselves, and they frequently clash with each other, I'm not sure what your last post was about, I mean it's pretty obvious anyone openly espousing "Go Chaos gods ra ra ra!!" is going to get annihilated pdq, but anyone doing that can expect that response, no one is safe publicly championing chaos.

But someone saying something in the middle of an investigation, to fool some cult muppets into betraying their hidden masters? well now that is a whole different kettle of fish, some random Imp guard grunt would be executed sure, but an Inquisitor? or a RT? or an Imperial Assassin? they get the benefit of the doubt because they are A trusted, B have the authority to do so.

I mean your own post states they are peers, do you need a dictionary definition of what being someones peer group means?

An Imperial Navy Admiral jumping into a system and seeing a fleet, would check for Imperial codes, and then ask for verification, soon as they heard back "I'm a RT" they would behave exactly the same as if it came back "I'm a SM", "I'm a Mechanicum", "I'm a Inquis" they are all Imperial institutions they have no direct control over, they are expected to work alongside them, support them or ignore them, the only time they would do anything would be specific and exact orders naming the fleet owner in question as a traitor.

You need to give up this idea that Inquisition is defacto the emperor to all other institutions, they are not.

And I'm saying this as someone who started playing 40k in the 80's, worked for GW for over a decade, has played just about every game made, board, PC, RP, Table top, read virtually every novel written produced by or under license by/for GW.
I can turn my head right and see the hardback rule books for RT, DH, OW and deathwatch.

No i addressed that point, warrant grants them no authority inside imperium other than privledge of owning personal army and ship. Its actually quite a bit of punitive mechanism, eventually rogue trader will have to rely on imperium to gain more people, resources, parts, ships, thats when imperium can step in and punish any crime perceived or real.

They dont run anything but their own assets outside of imperium and thats important distinction, they are also required to pay tithes and any suspicion of seccession will be met with retribution so even outside of imperium their authority is absolute only on paper.

"The most common method of ensuring a Rogue Trader
complies with the conditions of his Warrant is to ensure
there are very powerful representatives of the Imperium on
hand to remind him of their obligations. This might be an
Administratum prefect, but it might also be an agent of a more
obscure division, perhaps even of the Inquisition. On occasion,
the Rogue Trader might find his flotilla accompanied by one
or more Space Marine vessels, and sometimes these will be
serving as much as a reminder of the conditions of his Warrant
as to enforce the power of the Imperium on its enemies.
Sometimes the Rogue Trader’s compliance might be
guaranteed by more subtle means, such as the promise of
further powers or the granting of additional assets at various
stages in a voyage. If a Rogue Trader has to make a number of
diversions and fulfil a number of tasks before even reaching the
fringes, then he may be reliant on the Imperium to replenish
his forces before he leaves Imperial space.
There might also be more insidious contingencies put
in place. Members of a ship’s crew could be agents of the
Imperium, and it is not unknown for actual assassins to be
emplaced aboard a Rogue Trader’s flagship as insurance against
non-compliance or betrayal"

this is outright spelled out.

Now on matter of screaming youre with chaos, i believe i already said i can think of heinrix waiting patiently for developments, argentia though hearing though should kill you and anyone who didnt raise a stink about you saying that.

Peer means they are part of same social group as the other mentioned, high commanders of military. You attach too much to this section, things which it doesnt actually say.

Well thats interesting, because even if sm chapter jumped in and were met with navy fleet the navy have no obligation to let them do as they please.
They would ask for orders or at the very least sufficient justification, they might be searched and will almost certainly be escorted. Even inquisitor will be required to prove their identity by being boarded and presenting their rosette to delegation.

Mind you this is especially important when your typical high ecclesiarch is unable to discern a word bearer marine as chaos traitor, let alone navy letting pass potential one of 10 chapters of marines which went traitor this century... Everyone can be a traitor and everyone should be treated with utmost suspicion.

Inquisition is defacto acting in emperors name, only 3 organisations are directly under emperor in imperium
1)inquisition
2)high lords of terra with inquisition representative
3)space marines
Everyone else is subservient to high lords and inquisition in some way or just to inquisition if they are part of it.

Well you can be a writer for gw and guy whos responsible for pitching new ideas to the board and you still can be wrong. Appeal to authority is a fallacy for a reason.