Sword Class Frigates are small

[O'Connell]

Being a rogue trader I am going to need an upgrade for a flag ship. At least a Lunar cruiser like the legendary Lord Admiral Spire. Taking a lone sword class frigate through the void should terrify everyone.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Nyx:

Rogue traders have equal formal standing as an Inquisitor.

No, Inquisitors are still have more power and authority over imperial citizens. Just Rogue Traders have partial legal immunity so (for example) dealing with xenos is legal to them.

UPD. As example - we're doing Inquisitor errands in the game because he's still above us.

[Commander Hitman2b]

do you guys know what other ship we can get ?

[KiT2142]

It's a 2km warship with 25 thousand souls on board, wdym small?)

[76561197988918266]

It only seems tiny because you played battlefleet.

It's not actually tiny.

[fgalkin]

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

Given what I've heard about space combat in 40k and the comparative power difference between different ship classes I was having a bit of a shout at my pc as I read the description for this frigate as if it's something incredible. Also, the length of 1.6k and 26,000 crew strength... is that right? I know 40k is all about turning it up to 11, but that seems excessive for a minor ship class. At some point packing extra bodies in the ship wouldn't serve a purpose, but oh well.

The frigate, as far as I heard, is suited for a purpose, and mostly that purpose is escort of bigger ships or security in a low risk zone, like to deal with piracy & civil unrest etc (Which to be fair is MOSTLY what it looks like you're dealing with in this game). It's not a ship of the line and would generally get obliterated if targeted by a larger ships' weapons, because the way things scale in this universe, in extreme cases that larger ships weapons could be the literal size of the frigate.

I wouldn't expect the biggest warships, but seeing as the Rogue Trader has so much authority & wealth (they can raise armies, govern sectors etc) I would think their flagship would be a little bigger. Otherwise their lives would be at real risk from random banditry whenever they went to space.

You're just used to sci-fi settings handwaving away large crew numbers through automation.

A Nimitz-Class supercarrier has a length of 332 meters and around 5,200 crew. The largest cruise ship in the world, Icon of the Seas, has a length of 364 meters and 7,600 passengers and 2,350 crew. So, a quarter of the length of your ship, but almost 40% of the people.

Considering that most of the crew doesn't live in comfy staterooms, I'd say that if anything, 26,000 crew is actually too low, and it should be at least double that.

As for the Rogue Trader's flagship being a frigate, I think people overestimate the importance of Rogue Traders and underestimating the rarity of warships because of Battlefleet Gothic Armada. A sector of multiple hive and forge worlds and quadrillions of people would have maybe a dozen cruisers, and 1-2 grand cruisers or battleships. They are so rare, not even the Inquisition can get their hands on one, most of the time. The ship in Darktide, for example, is also a Sword Class Frigate, and it's being used as the staging grounds for a major operation.

[Nyx]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Nyx:

Rogue traders have equal formal standing as an Inquisitor.

No, Inquisitors are still have more power and authority over imperial citizens. Just Rogue Traders have partial legal immunity so (for example) dealing with xenos is legal to them.

UPD. As example - we're doing Inquisitor errands in the game because he's still above us.

No they don't, not proper writ of trade Rogue traders letter of Marque Rogue traders are different. But proper warrant of trade Rogue traders who herald back to great crusade have the same legal standing as an inquisitor. That doesn't mean they can't be tried by the inquisition they can but it generally requires one of two things the inquisitor in question having more actual direct power in fleets and armies at their disposal or such blatant and apparent heresy/treason that they can call a conclave or get a lord inquisitor to call a high conclave and then present said conclave with evidence so as to gather the strength needed to meet point one. Though even if an Inquisitor meets point one on their own they may still call a conclave and get the support of their peers, because generally Rogue traders have enough connections to be problematic even if in direct power you outmatch them.

But in terms of actual authority an Inquisitor can't order a Rogue trader to do jack unless their warrant of trade would compel them to act in such circumstances which it could all the true warrants are unique documents handwritten during the great crusade and often may have specific obligations besides the general ones all Rogue traders share. That doesn't mean an Inquisitor can't coerce help from a Rogue trader, they absolutely can or offer something to persuade the Rogue trader. In the case of the game the High Inquisitor is not above us but he does without a doubt wield more influence than us, High Inquisitors while they don't technically have more authority than normal Inquisitors to be named a High Inquisitor is a mark of respect by the Ordos and they thus tend to be very influential both amongst their peers but also to the wider imperium. Hence he can't technically order us to do anything but not obeying his orders would be a bad idea because he could without a doubt ♥♥♥♥ us.

[Dukoth]

I feel the ship should've been a dauntless light cruiser, would give a range of plausible enemies to face without being "too big", and kinda feels like what they were going for "feel" wise

or even a lunar cruiser, Imerium cranks those out by the dozen so it's even kinda reasonable that your ancient flag ship is one of the most common ships in the fleet, and that's also where imperial ships start getting customisable in the tabletop, you could start with an under-gunned light cruiser equivalent and end the game with what is effectively a heavy cruiser

[Daliena]

Not for nothing, but Calligos Winterscale's flagship is the Emperor's Vow, a Grand Cruiser.

So in categories of size, firepower etc, we have a frigate.

Above that would be light cruisers, then heavy cruisers, then battlecruisers, and finally grand cruisers.

That's how ridiculously badly we are outclassed by Winterscale's flagship.

Edit: The Von Valancius flagship has been modified quite a bit (stock Swords do not come with torpedo tubes OR a prow lance AFAIK.)

[Nyx]

Originally posted by Dukoth:

I feel the ship should've been a dauntless light cruiser, would give a range of plausible enemies to face with being "too big", and kinda feels like what they were going for "feel" wise

or even a lunar cruiser, Imerium cranks those out by the dozen so it's even kinda reasonable that your ancient flag ship is one of the most common ships in the fleet, and that's also where imperial ships start getting customisable in the tabletop, you could start with an under-gunned light cruiser equivalent and end the game with what is effectively a heavy cruiser

I agree an ancient light cruiser or cruiser is far more fitting. A sword frigate is an escort class it's meant to accompany a larger ship as a screen or other escorts (like a transport) as a screen. Something like a dauntless is however explicitly used as a scout cruiser and would operate alone as it has the maneuverability to not really need screen ships but retains the firepower to fight off any escorts they may encounter. It seems odd that an ancient Rogue trader dynasty is using the same type of ships pirates often have when they should have considerably more resources at their disposal.

[=]

You could just about manage to start with a Dauntless light cruiser (if you absolutely tanked your profit factor) in the TTRPG but a frigate was the norm. Upgrading to a cruiser was certainly possible, but it isn't an easy thing to do. I fully expect this this will be a DLC though.

Warships are extremely expensive in 40K, even for Rogue Traders.

[=]

Originally posted by Nyx:

No they don't, not proper writ of trade Rogue traders letter of Marque Rogue traders are different. But proper warrant of trade Rogue traders who herald back to great crusade have the same legal standing as an inquisitor.

Not unless the fluff has changed. Inquisitors have primacy over all Imperial organisations, only the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus can refuse them.

[O'Connell]

Originally posted by =:

Originally posted by Nyx:

No they don't, not proper writ of trade Rogue traders letter of Marque Rogue traders are different. But proper warrant of trade Rogue traders who herald back to great crusade have the same legal standing as an inquisitor.

Not unless the fluff has changed. Inquisitors have primacy over all Imperial organisations, only the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus can refuse them.

You might want to check on that one. I'm pretty sure no one refuses the Inquisition, accept heretics.
Falling out of favor with the Imperium is just the start to that perilous road.

[Nyx]

Originally posted by =:

Originally posted by Nyx:

No they don't, not proper writ of trade Rogue traders letter of Marque Rogue traders are different. But proper warrant of trade Rogue traders who herald back to great crusade have the same legal standing as an inquisitor.

Not unless the fluff has changed. Inquisitors have primacy over all Imperial organisations, only the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus can refuse them.

The fluff hasn't changed it has always been the case that a proper Writ of Trade Rogue trader has the same authority as Space Marine Chapter Masters and Inquisitors and moreover Rogue traders aren't an Imperial Organisation per say, their power is bestowed to them directly by the Emperor or Emperor Proxy. Thus Inquisitors don't have an authority over them just like with Ad Mech and Space Marines Inquisitors can only enforce things upon them by simply having the force to make them comply, which is certainly easier with Rogue traders than those other two groups. The only obligations a Rogue trader has are those defined in their warrant of trade, some are standard and common across all Rogue traders some given the handmade nature of true warrants are specific to an Individual dynasty. Outside of treason, heresy, or otherwise not upholding the terms of the warrant a Rogue trader can do effectively whatever the ♥♥♥♥ they want nor can their warrant be revoked or altered outside of the three reasons listed above. This isn't new lore it has always been the case that Rogue traders are basically subordinate to no-one but the Emperor or Emperor Proxy's like the Primarch's, so long as they are meeting the obligations set upon them by the warrant anyways.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Andrew:

Originally posted by =:

Not unless the fluff has changed. Inquisitors have primacy over all Imperial organisations, only the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus can refuse them.

You might want to check on that one. I'm pretty sure no one refuses the Inquisition, accept heretics.
Falling out of favor with the Imperium is just the start to that perilous road.

The Astartes and Mechanicus are among those few who CAN refuse the Inquisition.

But it's not necessarily wise to do so - just ask the Celestial Lions. If you can find any survivors after the Inquisition decided that they'd sooner sabotage the defense of a vital world like Armageddon against the biggest Ork WAAAAAAGH since the War of the Beast, just to teach the Lions a lesson (the lesson was almost driving the chapter to extinction if not for the Black Templars intervening)

Edit: Or, Armageddon again (this time the less-known First War), the Space Wolves made it pretty clear that they weren't going to bow and scrape before the Inquisition. It got messy as hell, but they pulled it off.

[O'Connell]

Okay whats the biggest class Grand Cruiser or Battleship?
I'd like to trade one of my planets for one of those, please.