Psyker powers = trash. The greatest nerf in TT to CRPG adaptations history

[Cryomancer]

From Dark Heresy TT game. The most iconic stuff :

• Telekinesis? Non existent. It is great in TT as has force bolt, catch projectiles Neo style, force fields and so on
  
• Pyro? No incinerate, firebolt(and at high pr you can summon multiple ones), holocaust, no fire wall, nothing interesting, even regular enemies can soak multiple molten beam(which lacks visual effects), Fire storm in TT can turn 50m area into ashes, in game requires a round to cast ignite and a round to spread it, being much less effective than any flamer.
  
• Telepathy? No domination, arguably the best one, see me not, terrify and other abiltiies
  
• Biomancy? NO blood boil, no bio lightning, not a single offensive power. The ability to regen lost limbs and remove injuries from TT is also not in the game.

I wanna to cause massive firestorms reducing enemies to dust, stop bullets Matrix style, summon multiple forcebolts to tear apart enemies, make my enemy blood boil at the same time that I transform their blood into poison and use lifeforce to create massive lightning storms Sith style. All of this is present in TT. Not having to spend two turns to igniting enemies and dealing less damage than a flammer in a single turn.

Even with PR = 5, my sniper outDPS me and she can attack 3x per round.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3110914281

Psyker gameplay is so awful that I uninstalled the game and will only play this game WHEN someone makes a "psyker fix" like NWN2 has the "spell fix" mod.

Is not fun to be a worthless party member.

[Batailleuse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

Leader Character, use the ultimate on your PSyker and delete the screen.

No, if you believe on it, you never played a psyker. My gameplay as one. I enfeble the enemy, cast regeneration in my melee fighters and them do less dps than everyone else while giving some buffs here and there as an officer.

IS not fun, is not how any psyker is in WH40k

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

Some of the spells are on the staff, but any "damage" psyker can delete everything on screen when you unlock the second archetype.

See my screenshot. I already reached exemplar.

And again YOU TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING EXCEPT PSYKER POWERS. I'm not talking about the stacking exploits, about weapons, about archetype stuff to buff your team, I'm talking about psyker powers.

But people who say that its good tends to not talk about it

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

by any standard Leader and Master Tactician a

Again, can we talk about psyker powers?

Not "but despite psyker having poor powers, they can be useful if they play as any non psyker"?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

archetype

Again, I din't created this thread to discuss archetypes.

I created this thread to discusss psy powers.

Yet people are talking about how great weapons, archetypes, feats, stacking debuffs, grenades, everything except psyker powers.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

i could just play with 6 Psyker for all i care. more word of the emperor faster win.

You can if you use mercs.

But, you will trigger Perils of the warp every single round.

you are crying but in truth Psyker are more than fine and they work with a lot of archetype, they are also the only real flexible origin... how many other origin can pretend to have a pool of like 20 spells, and 30+ skills ? none

it's like saying CAN WE TALK ABOUT ASTRA MILITARUM BEING USELESS on its own ?

like dude, any "origin" is worthless without archetypes to support it... don't be so dense.

if anything the psyker brings way more than other origins just because it scales in power throughout the game, and keep bringing perks/skills if you want to, nothing forces you to pick them tho. just picking a decent buff, some passive and psy rating is more than enough on its own.

you will find lot of items scaling on your PsyPower for various stat buff. and considering the way Sanctic can scale it's Psypower (+1 per people doing ultimate) ... any bonus granted by those items is absolutely bonkers.

there are armor giving 3xpsy% dodge rating, with 10 (in fight) you are at +30% flat dodge, for an item you picked in act 1, with a normal build you should be around 50-60% with almost no investment into agility. if you are a Diviner, you would scale your dodge (and that of your allies) by 3xpsy rating on top of that.

there is an heavy armor you unlock through rep that can give you +1 psy rating everytime a psy anomaly occurs... so if you play lot of psyker it will happen often. and you can scale well beyond psy 15 in longer fights

there's unsanctioned gloves, giving you +1 psy rating when you trigger a warp effect
there is a book incresing chances to trigger warp effect.

but to get back to your statement, Psyker is an Origin, not many origin even remotely scale the way psyker does, or provide anywhere near as much flexibility.

Taken on their own, no origin is even remotely good, they ALL depends on synergies provided by picking 2 archetypes.

i already play 3 psyker, and even when the bar is full it doesnt trigger all that often to be honest, and like i said, considering some items give +1 psy rating per trigger i wont mind.

Idira basically gains +2 psy rating per trigger right now. and +1 when anyone ultimate.
she regularly end up at 10-15 power rating in some fights.

when i get the Ascencion level i can become an unsanctioned psyker too... then i'll be the one getting all those advantages.

[Trip]

How are you people using so many psyker abilities in combat?

I'm not talking about trash fights, but most of the set fights so far where I need warp abilities start out mostly full for whatever reasons.

Yeah, I know about talents to reduce perils blah de dah, but chain using warp abilities in tough fights tend to summon adds for me, or my psykers pull out guns and do NON psyker stuff.

Tough luck if there is an enemy psyker, better kill it quick cuz you know it's going to run up perils.

I swear the deamon spawns from my own psykers have done more damage to me then the regular enemies.

[XartaX]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Trip:

How are you people using so many psyker abilities in combat?

I'm not talking about trash fights, but most of the set fights so far where I need warp abilities start out mostly full for whatever reasons.

Yeah, I know about talents to reduce perils blah de dah, but chain using warp abilities in tough fights tend to summon adds for me, or my psykers pull out guns and do NON psyker stuff.

Tough luck if there is an enemy psyker, better kill it quick cuz you know it's going to run up perils.

I swear the deamon spawns from my own psykers have done more damage to me then the regular enemies.

Either build around instability and give no f's, or build around reducing it and nuke enemy psykers on sight.

[Batailleuse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Trip:

How are you people using so many psyker abilities in combat?

I'm not talking about trash fights, but most of the set fights so far where I need warp abilities start out mostly full for whatever reasons.

Yeah, I know about talents to reduce perils blah de dah, but chain using warp abilities in tough fights tend to summon adds for me, or my psykers pull out guns and do NON psyker stuff.

Tough luck if there is an enemy psyker, better kill it quick cuz you know it's going to run up perils.

I swear the deamon spawns from my own psykers have done more damage to me then the regular enemies.

honestly, i was afraid at first too, when i summoned random ♥♥♥♥ in early fights, only played 2 psyker back then, then you gain in power and you realize that those warp anomalie and spawn dont do much when you can one shot them 2-3 turn in any fights. (and that is playing on hard difficulty) you really dont care, you spam your psyker skills on heinrix/idira/my and dont give a F about the veil bar at all.

sometimes just idira randomely get one shot, but it's rare, probably happened like 2-3 times up until act 3.

to remedy that i gave her an item i found that basically auto resurrect her on her next turn if no one kills her on the ground, and i have someone else alive.

[Thurgret]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Trip:

How are you people using so many psyker abilities in combat?

I'm not talking about trash fights, but most of the set fights so far where I need warp abilities start out mostly full for whatever reasons.

Yeah, I know about talents to reduce perils blah de dah, but chain using warp abilities in tough fights tend to summon adds for me, or my psykers pull out guns and do NON psyker stuff.

Tough luck if there is an enemy psyker, better kill it quick cuz you know it's going to run up perils.

I swear the deamon spawns from my own psykers have done more damage to me then the regular enemies.

I think Idira has a talent to increase her psy rating for that combat whenever perils happen, at which point you actually want perils to happen as often as possible. Doesn't matter if a screamer is summoned if it's getting destroyed by psychic assault the next turn along with everything else standing in the same general direction.

[Cryomancer]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

anything the psyker brings way more than other origins just because it scales in power throughout the game,

I"m not talking about psyker as an origin.

Make it come with huge penalties for the rituals of binding. I don't care.

I'm talking about psyker abilities like Ignite, Molten Beam, Regeneration and so on.

And this abilities which you need to pick like any navigator ability.

That is what I wanna to talk but I say "omg, this ability deals less damage than other abilities and lacks any visual effect," and all that comes is " if you stack 65461568514654681466846165 debuffs in the enemy you can kill them with that ability"

When it is not the point. My point is that in Dark Heresy TT game and in lore, Psykers can do a lot of cool stuff, in game, they can't.

I would trade ALL psyker abilities in this game for half of the TT versions of only Telekynesis. Hell, a accurate force bolt from TT, the most basic ability would be better than all abilities combined.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XartaX:

Lmao, staffs are psyker powers. They can only be used by psykers (the ones we're talking about anyway), and they have psyker powers tied to them.

Aren't abilities which you pick in the trees like anyone else, if you are disarmed which will happen in act 3 , you can't use them. If you are a pure biomancer and the unique offensive ability from you comes from a staff, you are screwed in that part.

[Marcos_DS]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

i can finish most fights in HARD mode under 2 turns, unless it's huge maps.

You miss out on xp and loot if you do btw,: some battles have reinforcements that won't show up if you finish off everything too early.

How do you stack resolve from Word of the Emperor so fast btw, doesn't the cooldown prevent that?

[XartaX]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

Aren't abilities which you pick in the trees like anyone else, if you are disarmed which will happen in act 3 , you can't use them. If you are a pure biomancer and the unique offensive ability from you comes from a staff, you are screwed in that part.

Less screwed than if you're a soldier built around a specific gun. You still have other powers to fall back on. Weaponry is part of your build/kit.

[Cryomancer]

What I wanna?

• Pyro : A have a simple single target "fire bolt" style spell which can compete with guns and a large AoE spell like P&P Fireball/P&P Fire Storm and a persistent wall of fire
  
• Telekinesis : Be implemented into the game with Force Bolt, Catch projectiles, push PSychic blade, and tele shield
  
• Telephaty : Domination which takes control over the enemy, projection and terrify
  
• Divination : Far sight + Divine shot
  
• Biomancy : Bio-Lightning + Blood boil + ability to regen injuries

That is all that I want to make changes in psyker. I'm not talking about Origins, archetypes or anything like that. I'm criticizing the fact that pyros have only "ignite" and a worthles fire storm. That biomancers lack any offensive spell. That there is no telekynesis in the game.

[Batailleuse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Marcos_DS:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

i can finish most fights in HARD mode under 2 turns, unless it's huge maps.

You miss out on xp and loot if you do btw,: some battles have reinforcements that won't show up if you finish off everything too early.

How do you stack resolve from Word of the Emperor so fast btw, doesn't the cooldown prevent that?

lot of setup and careful building of character.

- lower first-skill use veil generation
- higher resolve when under 10 veil (really only important to get stack rolling fast)
- some other higher resolve from the leader/tactician (forgot)
- The word of the emperor is 1+psy rating, so at my level psy 3-4 it's 4-5 resolves from
me/idira/henrix when they play. yes... 3 Sanctic psyker.

i play with 3 leaders, (me/Jae/cassia), I give free turns to my psyker, to get all the defensive buffs + an extra word from the emperor with the free 2AP it gives.

Basically at the end of turn 1 (end of act 2).
3 extra turn given to psykers + 3 psyker normal turn = 6*4-5 resolve given to the whole team so 24-30 + their own base. which means usually above 30-35 by turn one.

and as you guessed i picked the Critical rate increased by +resolve%, so turn 1 ... at least 25% crit, turn 2, 50%+ ... so on.

turn 2, is where the fun begins.

either i already have Ultimate up just from playing them or the first kill will give me enough to trigger.
so kill whatever with whoever was available at turn start, get ultimate, use that just to trigger the perk on my 3 psykers giving them +1 psy rating.
and use the "give free turn" from me/cassia/Jae to whoever is best suited to deal damage. my Tacticians provide free damage boost, free repositioning, and more more extra turn.

- Resolve : increases amount of archetype ressource you generate as a Tactician per turn (including Extra ones).
- gave tactician Inspire (+1 flat damage per 10 stacks consumed)
- your base skill as Tactician is consume up to 99 stacks, +4% damage per stack used, lose 50% of total ressource, so ... +396% damage on your psyker skills for free until battle ends from here. so get your own stack to 99 FIRST, then give damage to whoever.

and meanwhile, all sanctic psyker also gain raw power from resolve... better tanking spell, better heal, better damage. so you double-dip on stupid damage output.

[revan1229]

I actually agree, somewhat. I'm playing a Psyker, and I certainly don't feel weak (my damage is among the highest in the party from exploits), but the powers are kind of anemic. Pyromancer feels especially bland and limited. Kind of disappointing coming from a Wrath caster playthrough, where there was so much I could do with my spells. I'm hoping they add more content for Psyker down the line.

[Batailleuse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

What I wanna?

• Pyro : A have a simple single target "fire bolt" style spell which can compete with guns and a large AoE spell like P&P Fireball/P&P Fire Storm and a persistent wall of fire

Pyro staff do exactly just that, after you setup your first burn, you can spread it in area too, and then you have a buff you can use every turn that increase burn damage AND trigger EVERY BURN ON THE MAP

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

• Telekinesis : Be implemented into the game with Force Bolt, Catch projectiles, push PSychic blade, and tele shield

well we dont have that, but Psychic blade exists in Sanctic, and it's very strong, albeit an ultimate skill, and you have a Deflection perk into Sanctic (same idea as what a force field does)

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

• Telephaty : Domination which takes control over the enemy, projection and terrify

you did not read the spell list and description of the origin did you ?
you have Domination (makes a target use all MP to move towards you) and you have mind rapture (mind control to attack an ally, AND takes psychic scream damage on top) into Mental specialization. Cassia has a spell called terrify i think. not psyker tho

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C4MP3R:

• Divination : Far sight + Divine shot
  
• Biomancy : Bio-Lightning + Blood boil + ability to regen injuries

yeah we dont have that either.

although the Lightning staff is what bio-lightning would do.... so again. seems like you picked psyker at lvl1, read what you HAD on your bar, not what the description shows you get PER specialization and the future skills you unlock, and then proceed to cry about how bad psyker is at level 1.

i'd agree that pyro is not super fun compared to say ... mental, way easier to damage and aoe as Mental (on top of better contro/cc/debuff)

Sanctic has a very strong double scaling single target skill, and if you play melee, a very cool 2 hander psychic weapon later.

Biomancer and diviner are really relegated to buffer specializations, so they are decent "off spec" to pick, for support, not for a main damage dealer, but you can still do really good damage with a staff on them.

[Marcos_DS]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Marcos_DS:

You miss out on xp and loot if you do btw,: some battles have reinforcements that won't show up if you finish off everything too early.

How do you stack resolve from Word of the Emperor so fast btw, doesn't the cooldown prevent that?

lot of setup and careful building of character.

- lower first-skill use veil generation
- higher resolve when under 10 veil (really only important to get stack rolling fast)
- some other higher resolve from the leader/tactician (forgot)
- The word of the emperor is 1+psy rating, so at my level psy 3-4 it's 4-5 resolves from
me/idira/henrix when they play. yes... 3 Sanctic psyker.

i play with 3 leaders, (me/Jae/cassia), I give free turns to my psyker, to get all the defensive buffs + an extra word from the emperor with the free 2AP it gives.

Basically at the end of turn 1 (end of act 2).
3 extra turn given to psykers + 3 psyker normal turn = 6*4-5 resolve given to the whole team so 24-30 + their own base. which means usually above 30-35 by turn one.

and as you guessed i picked the Critical rate increased by +resolve%, so turn 1 ... at least 25% crit, turn 2, 50%+ ... so on.

turn 2, is where the fun begins.

either i already have Ultimate up just from playing them or the first kill will give me enough to trigger.
so kill whatever with whoever was available at turn start, get ultimate, use that just to trigger the perk on my 3 psykers giving them +1 psy rating.
and use the "give free turn" from me/cassia/Jae to whoever is best suited to deal damage. my Tacticians provide free damage boost, free repositioning, and more more extra turn.

- Resolve : increases amount of archetype ressource you generate as a Tactician per turn (including Extra ones).
- gave tactician Inspire (+1 flat damage per 10 stacks consumed)
- your base skill as Tactician is consume up to 99 stacks, +4% damage per stack used, lose 50% of total ressource, so ... +396% damage on your psyker skills for free until battle ends from here. so get your own stack to 99 FIRST, then give damage to whoever.

and meanwhile, all sanctic psyker also gain raw power from resolve... better tanking spell, better heal, better damage. so you double-dip on stupid damage output.

Thanks for the great overview & explanation!

[Batailleuse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Marcos_DS:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Batailleuse:

i can finish most fights in HARD mode under 2 turns, unless it's huge maps.

You miss out on xp and loot if you do btw,: some battles have reinforcements that won't show up if you finish off everything too early.

How do you stack resolve from Word of the Emperor so fast btw, doesn't the cooldown prevent that?

i dont think it matters that much lol. i'm lvl 30 end of act 2, beginning act 3. and if i'm stomping on everything does it really matter if i get 10% more xp ? i think not.

but then i feel like my team is pretty much min maxed right now (for Companion only and no respec)

wish i could respec my Origin choice of pyro psyker.. it's literally the only thing i do not like about my build.

[RobOda]

It does start quite weak.

Part of the problem is all the skills scale with a multiplier off the psy rating.

So, Ignite for example is supposed to be 5 + 5 x Psy rating damage, but because 5 x 0 = 0, you just do a measly 5 damage, or whatever.

So, that little pea shooter does more damage than warp immolation. It does seem a bit of an oversight.