Psyker powers = trash. The greatest nerf in TT to CRPG adaptations history

[Cryomancer]

From Dark Heresy TT game. The most iconic stuff :

• Telekinesis? Non existent. It is great in TT as has force bolt, catch projectiles Neo style, force fields and so on
  
• Pyro? No incinerate, firebolt(and at high pr you can summon multiple ones), holocaust, no fire wall, nothing interesting, even regular enemies can soak multiple molten beam(which lacks visual effects), Fire storm in TT can turn 50m area into ashes, in game requires a round to cast ignite and a round to spread it, being much less effective than any flamer.
  
• Telepathy? No domination, arguably the best one, see me not, terrify and other abiltiies
  
• Biomancy? NO blood boil, no bio lightning, not a single offensive power. The ability to regen lost limbs and remove injuries from TT is also not in the game.

I wanna to cause massive firestorms reducing enemies to dust, stop bullets Matrix style, summon multiple forcebolts to tear apart enemies, make my enemy blood boil at the same time that I transform their blood into poison and use lifeforce to create massive lightning storms Sith style. All of this is present in TT. Not having to spend two turns to igniting enemies and dealing less damage than a flammer in a single turn.

Even with PR = 5, my sniper outDPS me and she can attack 3x per round.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3110914281

Psyker gameplay is so awful that I uninstalled the game and will only play this game WHEN someone makes a "psyker fix" like NWN2 has the "spell fix" mod.

Is not fun to be a worthless party member.

[MeGa]

Legit, well fundamented complaint. Cant disagree.

Specially on the lack of visuals, and pyromancer being worse than a flamer

Also, this:

Publicado originalmente por Scrubs0:

The hostility to anyone who DARES criticize this game is something else, yes I agree that Psykers are lackluster both visually and gameplay wise, hopefully at least the visual part will be patched at some point

One mad fanboy even called others to report this thread as bait! Smh

[Cryomancer]

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

. The extra attacks are from the archetype(s), so

You are missing the point. I'm not talking about archtype abilities. I"m talking about psyker powers, even if you do everythin in your way to make your psy powers as powerful as possible, a force sword + a plasma pistol will gonna be better.

I'm criticizing psy abilities. Not background stuff.

Publicado originalmente por BananaChumpus:

The thing where she soul Burns enemies is quite powerful, especially when you hit multiple enemies.

The immobilizing Gaze pairs extremely well with the sniper.

The inquisitor's psychic abilities (I used only purge) sound like they will be a great help against Daemons.

All the different buffs and debuffs from psychic abilities are good too, forewarning for starters and then the psychic Circle or whatever that is.

And dont underestimate the staffs. Lifesteal, chain lightning, guaranteed crits.

I suppose you could look at psykers as Jack of all trades, they can fill any role or do all roles. The utility and their archetype abilities paired with psychic abilities allows for numerous combinations. That is what makes them powerful. And I think psykers will eventually become the strongest class in the hands of a player that knows the game, precisely due to the sheer amount of abilities and perks

IM NOT SAYING that weapons sucks
I'm not saying that nagivator powers sucks
I'm not saying that the inquisitior abilities sucks
I"m not saying that staffs sucks
I'm not saying that background abilities sucks

I'm saying that psy powers sucks.

That is my main point. That my fully dedicated psyker in act 2 was much better using a force sword and a plasma pistol than his psionic powers.

Is that hard to understand? I'm not criticizing weapons, navigator powers, inquisitor abilities, staves, force weapons or anything like that. I'm saying that freaking Ignite deals a tiny fraction of the damage which my plasma pistol dishes. Is that hard to understand?

Publicado originalmente por Inquisitor:

People who say psykers are good missing the point

They are arguying that everything is good, except psyker powers. They argue that weapons, inquisitor abilities, staves, backgrund abilities, everything except psyker powers.

[Zarquon]

two+ pages of comments mostly saying OP is wrong, yet not one of them gives a specific example of what their super powerful psychic is actually doing, skills, numbers, or build wise in order to be so overwhelmingly powerful.

I'm only level 17 and my custom merc solider psychic pyro is the weakest member of the team with no apparent path to making them really powerful.

[XartaX]

Publicado originalmente por Zarquon:

two+ pages of comments mostly saying OP is wrong, yet not one of them gives a specific example of what their super powerful psychic is actually doing, skills, numbers, or build wise in order to be so overwhelmingly powerful.

I'm only level 17 and my custom merc solider psychic pyro is the weakest member of the team with no apparent path to making them really powerful.

Look up this video, for example:

"W40K: ROGUE TRADER - OFFICER PSYKER Build: 1K+ AoEs & BUFFS! The BEST ARCHETYPE - UNFAIR Ready"

links tend to get disappeared.

[Werdna]

Publicado originalmente por Zarquon:

two+ pages of comments mostly saying OP is wrong, yet not one of them gives a specific example of what their super powerful psychic is actually doing, skills, numbers, or build wise in order to be so overwhelmingly powerful.

I'm only level 17 and my custom merc solider psychic pyro is the weakest member of the team with no apparent path to making them really powerful.

You're only option is stacking crits. You want your crits to burn
Problem is that it takes too long to burn everything. Argenta simply volleys once and deals 3 times the damage in 1 action.
They should make Pyro apply burn without saves and in AoE from the get go honestly.

[ChompyRiley]

Publicado originalmente por C4MP3R:

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

. The extra attacks are from the archetype(s), so

You are missing the point. I'm not talking about archtype abilities. I"m talking about psyker powers, even if you do everythin in your way to make your psy powers as powerful as possible, a force sword + a plasma pistol will gonna be better.

I'm criticizing psy abilities. Not background stuff.

Publicado originalmente por BananaChumpus:

The thing where she soul Burns enemies is quite powerful, especially when you hit multiple enemies.

The immobilizing Gaze pairs extremely well with the sniper.

The inquisitor's psychic abilities (I used only purge) sound like they will be a great help against Daemons.

All the different buffs and debuffs from psychic abilities are good too, forewarning for starters and then the psychic Circle or whatever that is.

And dont underestimate the staffs. Lifesteal, chain lightning, guaranteed crits.

I suppose you could look at psykers as Jack of all trades, they can fill any role or do all roles. The utility and their archetype abilities paired with psychic abilities allows for numerous combinations. That is what makes them powerful. And I think psykers will eventually become the strongest class in the hands of a player that knows the game, precisely due to the sheer amount of abilities and perks

IM NOT SAYING that weapons sucks
I'm not saying that nagivator powers sucks
I'm not saying that the inquisitior abilities sucks
I"m not saying that staffs sucks
I'm not saying that background abilities sucks

I'm saying that psy powers sucks.

That is my main point. That my fully dedicated psyker in act 2 was much better using a force sword and a plasma pistol than his psionic powers.

Is that hard to understand? I'm not criticizing weapons, navigator powers, inquisitor abilities, staves, force weapons or anything like that. I'm saying that freaking Ignite deals a tiny fraction of the damage which my plasma pistol dishes. Is that hard to understand?

Publicado originalmente por Inquisitor:

People who say psykers are good missing the point

They are arguying that everything is good, except psyker powers. They argue that weapons, inquisitor abilities, staves, backgrund abilities, everything except psyker powers.

This is kinda my issue. My psychic powers feel incredibly weak. Sure, they might become powerful later, I dunno. I've only played the prologue and CH1 so far. But they feel so much weaker than everything else, the payoff if they ever get stronger just doesn't feel worth it when the MC is just so much dead weight to my team.

I want full on pyro to be at least *viable*. I'm probably going to restart, either into melee or shooting. I've heard Officer is just bonkers, but I personally enjoy playing a more active role. Buffs are nice, don't get me wrong, but I'm not playing on unfair where you need to minmax everything. I play on normal and I'm proud of it. Thinking either Death World - Commissar - Warrior or Fortress World - Militarum - soldier.

[Nox]

Publicado originalmente por C4MP3R:

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

. The extra attacks are from the archetype(s), so

You are missing the point. I'm not talking about archtype abilities. I"m talking about psyker powers, even if you do everythin in your way to make your psy powers as powerful as possible, a force sword + a plasma pistol will gonna be better.

I'm criticizing psy abilities. Not background stuff.

Publicado originalmente por BananaChumpus:

The thing where she soul Burns enemies is quite powerful, especially when you hit multiple enemies.

The immobilizing Gaze pairs extremely well with the sniper.

The inquisitor's psychic abilities (I used only purge) sound like they will be a great help against Daemons.

All the different buffs and debuffs from psychic abilities are good too, forewarning for starters and then the psychic Circle or whatever that is.

And dont underestimate the staffs. Lifesteal, chain lightning, guaranteed crits.

I suppose you could look at psykers as Jack of all trades, they can fill any role or do all roles. The utility and their archetype abilities paired with psychic abilities allows for numerous combinations. That is what makes them powerful. And I think psykers will eventually become the strongest class in the hands of a player that knows the game, precisely due to the sheer amount of abilities and perks

IM NOT SAYING that weapons sucks
I'm not saying that nagivator powers sucks
I'm not saying that the inquisitior abilities sucks
I"m not saying that staffs sucks
I'm not saying that background abilities sucks

I'm saying that psy powers sucks.

That is my main point. That my fully dedicated psyker in act 2 was much better using a force sword and a plasma pistol than his psionic powers.

Is that hard to understand? I'm not criticizing weapons, navigator powers, inquisitor abilities, staves, force weapons or anything like that. I'm saying that freaking Ignite deals a tiny fraction of the damage which my plasma pistol dishes. Is that hard to understand?

Publicado originalmente por Inquisitor:

People who say psykers are good missing the point

They are arguying that everything is good, except psyker powers. They argue that weapons, inquisitor abilities, staves, backgrund abilities, everything except psyker powers.

Oh boy. My bad.

I thought the Navigator and Inquisitor abilities are psychic abilities available to all psykers.

If not then...I actually agree with you.

[Zarquon]

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

Publicado originalmente por Zarquon:

two+ pages of comments mostly saying OP is wrong, yet not one of them gives a specific example of what their super powerful psychic is actually doing, skills, numbers, or build wise in order to be so overwhelmingly powerful.

I'm only level 17 and my custom merc solider psychic pyro is the weakest member of the team with no apparent path to making them really powerful.

Look up this video, for example:

"W40K: ROGUE TRADER - OFFICER PSYKER Build: 1K+ AoEs & BUFFS! The BEST ARCHETYPE - UNFAIR Ready"

links tend to get disappeared.

Thanks i will take a look. I already had a officer so didn't really want another, but maybe. 25 seconds into the video and i see that the psyker part is rubbish just like OP said.
Their super damage 1K aoe is actually due to +356% bonus from press the advantage, something you have to build up over many turns and get one use from.

That said i'm not going to shoot myself in the foot, if it's really good i might as well try it

[XartaX]

Publicado originalmente por Zarquon:

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

Look up this video, for example:

"W40K: ROGUE TRADER - OFFICER PSYKER Build: 1K+ AoEs & BUFFS! The BEST ARCHETYPE - UNFAIR Ready"

links tend to get disappeared.

Thanks i will take a look. I already had a officer so didn't really want another, but maybe. 25 seconds into the video and i see that the psyker part is rubbish just like OP said.
Their super damage 1K aoe is actually due to +356% bonus from press the advantage, something you have to build up over many turns and get one use from.

Officers actually stack pretty good with each other since they both apply exploits everywhere and can remove each other's exploits with things like the ability that stripes exploits to add armor to your whole team.

And the only thing that seems to be rubbish here seems to be your ability to actually understand builds. There's a lot more there than press the advantage.

[Cryomancer]

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

"W40K: ROGUE TRADER - OFFICER PSYKER Build: 1K+ AoEs & BUFFS! The BEST ARCHETYPE - UNFAIR Ready"

links tend to get disappeared.

You mean, he stacks a lot of broken mechanics to turn something with low damage into high damage.

Just compare how much damage a well built Argenta can dish in one round with a well built psyker

Publicado originalmente por Inquisitor:

They should make Pyro apply burn without saves and in AoE from the get go honestly.

Yes, make Fire storm works like in P&P.

Publicado originalmente por ChompyRiley:

the payoff if they ever get stronger just doesn't feel worth it when the MC is just so much dead weight to my team.

They do become a bit better BUT you will never outdps a sniper.

Even if you stack a lot of momentum and crit from a lot of different gear and archetype abilities, you still will do higher DPS byt merely spamming greandes.

Publicado originalmente por BananaChumpus:

I thought the Navigator and Inquisitor abilities are psychic abilities available to all psykers.
.

The inquisitor are BUT only for those who pick a specific path. Navigator aren't. MC can't be a navigator.

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

[ctually stack pretty good with each other since they both apply exploits everywhere[/quote]

So, is not psyker powers who is good. Is stacking debuffs and buffs.

AS I've said that strategy would work with grenades and probably require less time to set up.

[Scrubs0]

Publicado originalmente por MeGa:

Legit, well fundamented complaint. Cant disagree.

Specially on the lack of visuals, and pyromancer being worse than a flamer

Also, this:

Publicado originalmente por Scrubs0:

The hostility to anyone who DARES criticize this game is something else, yes I agree that Psykers are lackluster both visually and gameplay wise, hopefully at least the visual part will be patched at some point

One mad fanboy even called others to report this thread as bait! Smh

Meh, best to ignore them, if they have a tantrum over criticism they have bigger problems than this game's state :)

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Publicado originalmente por C4MP3R:

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

"W40K: ROGUE TRADER - OFFICER PSYKER Build: 1K+ AoEs & BUFFS! The BEST ARCHETYPE - UNFAIR Ready"

links tend to get disappeared.

You mean, he stacks a lot of broken mechanics to turn something with low damage into high damage.

Just compare how much damage a well built Argenta can dish in one round with a well built psyker

Publicado originalmente por Inquisitor:

They should make Pyro apply burn without saves and in AoE from the get go honestly.

Yes, make Fire storm works like in P&P.

Publicado originalmente por ChompyRiley:

the payoff if they ever get stronger just doesn't feel worth it when the MC is just so much dead weight to my team.

They do become a bit better BUT you will never outdps a sniper.

Even if you stack a lot of momentum and crit from a lot of different gear and archetype abilities, you still will do higher DPS byt merely spamming greandes.

Publicado originalmente por BananaChumpus:

I thought the Navigator and Inquisitor abilities are psychic abilities available to all psykers.
.

The inquisitor are BUT only for those who pick a specific path. Navigator aren't. MC can't be a navigator.

Publicado originalmente por XartaX:

[ctually stack pretty good with each other since they both apply exploits everywhere[/quote]

So, is not psyker powers who is good. Is stacking debuffs and buffs.

AS I've said that strategy would work with grenades and probably require less time to set up.

While i dont totally disagree the real break down is that they took smite out of biomancy and put it on a staff like most of the offensive powers they just got moved on to staffs and the disciplines became more utility based.

Also i think the argument of "muh sniper does more" isent a good mentality to have like the biomancy buffs are kinda wild a sniper with Psyker buffs is gunna do alot more then just a sniper.

Psykers also dont seem to suffer from Accuracy ♥♥♥♥ just hits. So while sniper might do way more if they hit the psyker WILL hit every time. Personally i have had psykers/melee out dps all guns into the ground Argenta as cool as she is has missed so much its slowly becoming a meme in my mind.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

idk why its adding my responce into the over all quote but w.e lul

[phantommail]

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

Sancioned Psyker is just a background option in Rogue Trader, and compared to any other backgrounds its by far the most powerful option of those available for the MC. The extra attacks are from the archetype(s), so you can easily build a good sniper with 2 attacks+molten beam instead of 3 regular attacks.

Also, don't forget to pick up sanctic - its worth it for Psalm of Heroes that grants +1 psy per heroic act. By turn 2, your psy rating should be ~7 (with extra +1 if you are pryo on top)

Psalm is bugged ATM as far as I know

But yes , concidering that psyker is an origin not a archetype you can do great damage only relying on your archetype

[Marcos_DS]

Publicado originalmente por C4MP3R:

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

. The extra attacks are from the archetype(s), so

You are missing the point. I'm not talking about archtype abilities. I"m talking about psyker powers, even if you do everythin in your way to make your psy powers as powerful as possible, a force sword + a plasma pistol will gonna be better.

I'm criticizing psy abilities. Not background stuff.

Psyker IS background here, not an archetype. Considering the screenshot, it seems to me like you expect a single ability to be better than a whole build focused on damage with 3 attacks. I'm saying, don't completely ignore the archetype and you will get a far better overall character:

E.g. Idira with "perfect spot" from operative (for PER 100+, thus +1 extra AP from Operative - can also be reached via just buffs later), She also has "claim the bounty" (+2AP) and "hot on the trail" (extra turn after easy kill by allies). So even without getting extra turns from other sources, she can Psychic Assault 2 times stunning everyone in a cone (and dealing ~70 damage each and debuff riders from talents etc) while still having plenty of AP left for a "claim the bounty" shot and using non-attack buffs/debuffs.

Against bosses, she can use Visions of Death which deals a percentage of total wounds damage if they fail a WIL test (fortunately plenty of debuffs available to make sure it happens). If it didn't have a cooldown, she would be able to kill ANY boss in turn 1 by herself.
If you have more than 1 sanctic psyker in the party, stacking resolve will yield absurd amounts of damage from "Purge Soul" which has no cooldown and has resolve as a multiplier - but thats a bit too exploity for me so i didn't actually try

In short, my point is psykers are rather overpowered IF you don't play them pure, but use them in combination with your best archetype abilities.