Voidships

[Shadowblade]

I always learn something new about 40k every time I interact with it. After talking to the Vox Master, apparently Voidships are like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ countries? or states? People start whole all families on these things? In fact there's like, lineages and ♥♥♥♥? How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ big are these voidships??? And where can I learn more??

[MarkFranz]

Origineel geplaatst door Shadowblade:

I always learn something new about 40k every time I interact with it. After talking to the Vox Master, apparently Voidships are like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ countries? or states? People start whole all families on these things? In fact there's like, lineages and ♥♥♥♥? How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ big are these voidships??? And where can I learn more??

We have just frigate, which is basically cannon-fodder for battles. It's just our flagship have mary sue powers. But yeah, the real classes like cruisers and battleships is big. Battleships can even have they own ecosystem develop on loved decks.

[Nick]

They're like city states. The captain is essentially the king. Ships can last for millennia, so most ships in the Imperium are many generations old. Voidborn tend to be ostracized by others and don't like gravity of planets much, so they tend to stay to the ship they're born in.

[MarkFranz]

Origineel geplaatst door Nick:

They're like city states. The captain is essentially the king. Ships can last for millennia, so most ships in the Imperium are many generations old. Voidborn tend to be ostracized by others and don't like gravity of planets much, so they tend to stay to the ship they're born in.

Not millenia, millenias, there some ships in Imperial Navy that is 10k+ years old.

[DarkFenix]

Origineel geplaatst door MarkFranz:

Origineel geplaatst door Nick:

They're like city states. The captain is essentially the king. Ships can last for millennia, so most ships in the Imperium are many generations old. Voidborn tend to be ostracized by others and don't like gravity of planets much, so they tend to stay to the ship they're born in.

Not millenia, millenias, there some ships in Imperial Navy that is 10k+ years old.

Millennia is already plural. Millennium is the singular.

[Helldiver]

Origineel geplaatst door Kadaeux:

But also note, here you are crying about GW changing things and saying that they should change it because you disagree with it, despite Andy Chambers opinions never actually being enshrined in lore :P

Nope, not crying about GW changing anything; they haven't.

You and a few others are saying GW has do to a couple black libary books (which the author said he exaggerated, and FFG took as a source. FFG is not Games Workshop but licenses the IP for the RPGs and boardgames. GW has stated that the authors of BL and their contents is that author's view or the in-world editors/writers view. BL has been retconned and ignored quite a few times (see Grey Knights & Sisters of Battle incident).

We haven't gotten a new BFG book. FFG is releasing a new boardgame? Is GW rereleasing BFG with these numbers? When they do I stand corrected.

That crew debate has been ongoing even back on the GW BFG forums when they had forums. 40K has always teetered on the absurd, I won't argue that. Orks having the logistical prowess to get a hulk, or even a Kruiser going still baffles me.

But then there's a point where you're beyond absurdity. For years we'd established 1-2k crew per wound. That the 26k and greater numbers have snaked their way back into the soft canon is new to me.

[MarkFranz]

Origineel geplaatst door DarkFenix:

Origineel geplaatst door MarkFranz:

Not millenia, millenias, there some ships in Imperial Navy that is 10k+ years old.

Millennia is already plural. Millennium is the singular.

My mistake then, english is not my first language.

[Kadaeux]

Origineel geplaatst door Helldiver:

Origineel geplaatst door Kadaeux:

But also note, here you are crying about GW changing things and saying that they should change it because you disagree with it, despite Andy Chambers opinions never actually being enshrined in lore :P

Nope, not crying about GW changing anything; they haven't.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

You and a few others are saying GW has do to a couple black libary books (which the author said he exaggerated, and FFG took as a source. FFG is not Games Workshop but licenses the IP for the RPGs and boardgames. GW has stated that the authors of BL and their contents is that author's view or the in-world editors/writers view. BL has been retconned and ignored quite a few times (see Grey Knights & Sisters of Battle incident).

And now you're just making ♥♥♥♥ up entirely. GW has literally stated no such thing. And the ONLY canon statement we have is that ALL officially licensed material is of equal status.

But then there's a point where you're beyond absurdity. For years we'd established 1-2k crew per wound. That the 26k and greater numbers have snaked their way back into the soft canon is new to me.

No. We haven't. NOBODY has. People called Chambers figures ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game mechanics abstraction WHEN HE WROTE IT because it conflicted with other demonstrated feats on size of navy crews.

There is NO SUCH THING as soft canon for 40k.

FFG's books are objectively canon. Andy Chambers OPINIONS were NEVER canon.

[Helldiver]

Origineel geplaatst door Kadaeux:

There is NO SUCH THING as soft canon for 40k.

FFG's books are objectively canon. Andy Chambers OPINIONS were NEVER canon.

Right. So the arguement is that a Frigate (Sword or Firestorm) has a compliment of 26,000 right?

Calgar's Fury:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Foyu267uo0xpz.png

Space Marine battlebarge which are over 8km in size (10km if going by the 1km per Hit), the Octavius was 4 miles long 6km)

Crew size: 40,000 humans and servitors.

BFG Remastered Official Rulebook
The Invincible (originally in BFG 13)

Imperial Invisible Class Battleship.
Crew size: 12,000+ (let's go the bigger numbers and say 24,000 original souls) ordered to evacuate, 4000 made it out of which 1200 were saved.

Meanwhile, a Sword Class frigate has a crew contingent of 26,000?

[Voodoo]

Origineel geplaatst door Helldiver:

Crew size: 40,000 humans and servitors.

Id ask is it 40.000 humans or servitors or 40.000 humans and 40.000 servitors.

[Kadaeux]

Origineel geplaatst door Helldiver:

Origineel geplaatst door Kadaeux:

There is NO SUCH THING as soft canon for 40k.

FFG's books are objectively canon. Andy Chambers OPINIONS were NEVER canon.

Right. So the arguement is that a Frigate (Sword or Firestorm) has a compliment of 26,000 right?

Calgar's Fury:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Foyu267uo0xpz.png

Space Marine battlebarge which are over 8km in size (10km if going by the 1km per Hit), the Octavius was 4 miles long 6km)

Crew size: 40,000 humans and servitors.

BFG Remastered Official Rulebook
The Invincible (originally in BFG 13)

Imperial Invisible Class Battleship.
Crew size: 12,000+ (let's go the bigger numbers and say 24,000 original souls) ordered to evacuate, 4000 made it out of which 1200 were saved.

Meanwhile, a Sword Class frigate has a crew contingent of 26,000?

Space Marine ships are SPECIFICALLY noted for having significantly smaller crews due to increased automation.

And 24000 souls being ordered to evacuate =/= "the whole crew".

Stop appealing to Andy Chambers numbers. They're wrong, and always were.

[Helldiver]

Origineel geplaatst door Voodoo:

Origineel geplaatst door Helldiver:

Crew size: 40,000 humans and servitors.

Id ask is it 40.000 humans or servitors or 40.000 humans and 40.000 servitors.

and

Above Macragge, the ships had gathered at last, and were formed up in high orbit within supporting range of each other. At the epicentre of the formation was the mighty Octavius, the battle-barge of Marneus Calgar itself, one of three of this class that the Ultramarines possessed.
For miles long, spired with massive towering superstructure and lined with multiple batteries, the Octavius was manned by a crew of forty thousaand humand and servitor personnel, most of whom spent their entire lives aboard the ship. The barge was capable of launching three full companies of Adeptus Astartes into battle along with all their vehicles and a contingent of heavy armour, and its bombardment cannons could reduce the surface of a planet to cinders. Centuries old, the Octavius had endured battles beyond count, and had been refitted and largely rebuilt three times.

and this is a Battlebarge, designed to not only deploy marines, their equipment, be able to patrol massive swaths of space, as well as be able to deploy at a moments notice to anywhere, I'd imagine they'd want even more people than some lowly Sword-class frigate.

From BFG Official Rulebook Remastered
On the Invincible Class Battleship

‘The klaxon was sounding all across the ship now. I tried to enter the lower
bridge, but the emergency bulkheads had shut. Sporadic bursts from the
engines were pushing us to starboard and dipping the stern down towards Proxadis’
outer moon. I heard one of the Tech-Priests reporting over the internal comm-net
that the artificial gravity had failed along the starboard quarter gun-decks. With
the bridge presumed destroyed, I was left as the highest authority on board. I ran
into a party of ratings trying to jettison the blazing remains of the tertiary starboard
lance turret and I ordered them to get to the saviour rafts. Another explosion shook
the ship, sending us flying in all directions. Running up to the secondary aft bridge, I
took stock of the situation. We had lost all helm control, the fifth, ninth and eleventh
reactors were discharging plasma and the number three reactor was going into
endphase overload. I ordered the general abandonment and led the aft bridge crew
to the rafts at the end of ‘C’ deck, port quarter. Just as we jettisoned, I saw the outside
of the ship through the port. Plasma was slowly engulfing the whole of the engine
section. A gaping hole had been torn through both quarter galleries and fires were
burning up on the bridge section. We had perhaps got 12,000 away when the reactors
blew, sending a sheet of gas and flame surging towards us. It passed by about 4,000
away, but the shockwave buffeted us badly, and the engines cut.’
The loss of the Invincible by 4th Lieutenant Burns, one of only 1,250 survivors

On Warpspace and Warp travel (as I had posted earlier)
From BFG Official Rulebook Remastered

The human colonisation
of the galaxy owes its
accomplishment to one thing
– the nightmarish alternate
realm of warp space. Warp
space lies alongside and
around the material universe,
a dimension comprised
solely of shifting energies
and formless consciousness.
In warp space there is no
time, no distances, only a
constantly flowing stream
of immaterium. A starship
equipped with warp engines
can break through the
barrier that separates the
real universe from the warp,
thus removing itself from the
normal flow of time. Only
by travelling in the warp
can the immense distances
between stars be covered
within a single lifetime,
though even warp travel is
not instantaneous. On board
a ship in the warp a single
month of perceived time
may pass, yet in the material
realm anything from six
months to several years
may have elapsed. This can
mean that fleets and armies
responding to calls for aid
may turn up weeks, months
or even years too late to help
and this further adds to the
anarchy and confusion of
conducting hundreds of wars
across the whole galaxy

Origineel geplaatst door Kadaeux:

Stop appealing to Andy Chambers numbers. They're wrong, and always were.

LOL!!! Sure thing

[Bladeslayer]

I have no problem with Owlcat doing it's their game is approved by Games Workshop another player asking something I dug up where the name is used nothing more but as usual people like to make it personal.

[Kraehe]

People are discussing about 26k people on a voidship are unrealistic to feed?

Warhammer 40K is all about exaggerating about everything

[Dwarf-Lord Pangolin]

I'd just like to remind everyone that the real-life Nimitz-class carrier has a crew of around 5,000, including the airwing. Given the vastly greater volume of a Sword-class frigate in 40K, a crew of 26,000 -- remembering that this is a Rogue Trader's ship, and thus probably holding far more miscellaneous personnel than usual -- absolutely makes sense, particularly when we also account for the abject horror most automation is held in within the Imperium.

This is the Imperator-height argument all over again. Black Library books are as canon as anything else -- granted this is 40K, so that's not saying much -- and insisting that out-of-print sources for a discontinued game are to be held higher makes as much sense as arguing that random asides from 6th edition codices should take precedence over lore from new sources GW has approved.

I understand that Helldiver is apparently fond of BFG, and it looks like an awesome game, but it is hardly the definitive source for all things 40K, naval or otherwise.

[zastcat]

we're having a crew size debate? seriously? with pretty much *every* statistic in 40k lore being inconsistent people are having a fight over which source is right for the *almost entirely off screen* screw of a ship?

good news, you're all right, you're also all wrong, there is no 1 set number for these things and games workshop is going to be perfectly fine with authors and game writers throwing out a dozen conflicting answers

if people want to get upset over this there's way more concrete things than the numbers which eventually come down to just deciding which source you like most, like the fact that we're running around in a frigate and consistently getting into fights with 4-8 times our number in enemy ships of equal or greater number, including *necrons* according to the ship trophy cargo options you can sell to the imperial navy

numbers for a ship's crew are hilariously inconsistent (even speed of those ships and range of their weapons is hilariously inconsistent) but what is consistent is that a sword class frigate, even an upgunned frigate with some archeotech or xenotech integrated into it, isn't going to do a thing against a battlegroup that outnumbers and outmasses it by that much, to say nothing for the idea of a frigate with at most 1 backup frigate somehow holding its own against necron ships with the odds this game's fights usually throw you against