Why do Psyker PC's start with Psy Rating 0?

[Ninth Hour]

Granted, I've only played the Alpha and Beta (where Psyker powers weren't fully implemented) and am only in the beginning of my first playthrough of the full release. But I thought that starting with Psy Rating (PR) 0 in the earlier versions was simply a function of missing mechanics.

So I was surprised to see that rule being carried over into full release. At PR 0, you can do almost nothing befitting your role. And apparently, you can't even gain PR 1 until level 10. Until then, you have just a single minor power and don't even benefit much from the Psyker Staff that you find in the prologue. You basically have to play as another "class" for the first several levels.

It feels like a step backward from Fantasy Flight's TTRPG, where all psykers start with rating 1. Even your psyker companions (e.g. Idira) start with PR 1.

[TaKo]

every sanctioned psyker starts at 0, not just PC, idira is the exception and she has her own downsides due to that

the game gives you tools to play "as another class" as our origin is only part of our builds, our archetype plays a major role in that

for example if you want to be a melee pyromancer, yeah you're gonna be a weird melee unit at the start until you get accesss to more talents, abilities and PR upgrades due to their multiplicative nature, but then you become capable of things others very much are not

also we reach level 10 rather fast

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Granted, I've only played the Alpha and Beta (where Psyker powers weren't fully implemented) and am only in the beginning of my first playthrough of the full release. But I thought that starting with Psy Rating (PR) 0 in the earlier versions was simply a function of missing mechanics.

So I was surprised to see that rule being carried over into full release. At PR 0, you can do almost nothing befitting your role. And apparently, you can't even gain PR 1 until level 10. Until then, you have just a single minor power and don't even benefit much from the Psyker Staff that you find in the prologue. You basically have to play as another "class" for the first several levels.

It feels like a step backward from Fantasy Flight's TTRPG, where all psykers start with rating 1. Even your psyker companions (e.g. Idira) start with PR 1.

As explained, sanctioned pyskers trade power for stability, the 20% decrease to veil damage is a big deal especially if you're going to be a spammy pysker, as a lot of areas start with high warp bar for one reason or another and on higher difficulties really does pose a threat you can't just ignore (even if it's still managable).

The way they work in this game, it's not as drastic as you think until higher levels. For instance, my mindshriek caps at 11 while Idira's at 16. At rating 1, you basically only add the bas bonus of whatever you get, which can already be pretty substantial.

At higher levels though the scaling is much more meaningful, but remember that for unsanctioned pyskers like idira, not only does she damage the veil more, EVERY spell cast hance a chance of automatically triggering a peril.

I think it's pretty fair. Lore-wise, the unenviable position Idira is in is also the norm for unsanctioned pyskers, so starting as one would be weird.

If you really, really want to be an unsanctioned pysker, there's an exemplar trait that makes you want during the latter half of the game.

The system is a bit different than how it works in the TTRPG, and do remember that it's over 10 years old too and considered outdated content. If you played it today by a knowledgable group, they would likely use tons of community content to balance it and bring it up to speed.

[Ninth Hour]

I do like that builds are several layers deep- basically, every character is some form of "multiclass", as you draw abilities and talents from your home world, origin, and the various archetypes that you can gain.

Thanks for the explanations. I certainly won't dispute them.

For flavor reasons, I just wish that you could actually feel like a psyker from the very beginning, even if you're of the sanctioned variety. In the end, it won't deter me from enjoying the game. I just find the choice...odd, from a roleplaying perspective.

[DexGames]

Asked myself the same, then just figured this out. View it like that :
1. You're a Sanctioned Psyker.
- YOUR Psyrating is equal to ZERO, yes.
- BUT : YOUR benefit is that you generated LESS veil degradation.

2. Idira is an Unsanctioned Psyker.
- HER Psy rating is equal to 1. So she's better than you, yes.
- BUT : HER drawback is that she generates A LOT of veil degradation.

So, YOU are better than HER in that regard.
The thing is you have to keep playing, don't worry, your build WILL come online, and YOU will be a GREAT Psyker down the line !

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by DexGames:

Asked myself the same, then just figured this out. View it like that :
1. You're a Sanctioned Psyker.
- YOUR Psyrating is equal to ZERO, yes.
- BUT : YOUR benefit is that you generated LESS veil degradation.

2. Idira is an Unsanctioned Psyker.
- HER Psy rating is equal to 1. So she's better than you, yes.
- BUT : HER drawback is that she generates A LOT of veil degradation.

So, YOU are better than HER in that regard.
The thing is you have to keep playing, don't worry, your build WILL come online, and YOU will be a GREAT Psyker down the line !

I think people also fail to realize that Idira also has a chance on every single cast to automatically generate a peril on top of damaging the veil more.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

I think people also fail to realize that Idira also has a chance on every single cast to automatically generate a peril on top of damaging the veil more.

Oh no, I did, I just don't care
Dodge and 10ws/10bs for the entire combat go brrrrrrrrrrr

I mean, the game is definitely easier than WoTR, but for some encounters at higher difficulties, perils can be a huge pain in the arse.

I guess it's not a big deal though if you're playing on easier difficulties, maybe even the perils are weaker.

[Raikoh42]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by DexGames:

Asked myself the same, then just figured this out. View it like that :
1. You're a Sanctioned Psyker.
- YOUR Psyrating is equal to ZERO, yes.
- BUT : YOUR benefit is that you generated LESS veil degradation.

2. Idira is an Unsanctioned Psyker.
- HER Psy rating is equal to 1. So she's better than you, yes.
- BUT : HER drawback is that she generates A LOT of veil degradation.

So, YOU are better than HER in that regard.
The thing is you have to keep playing, don't worry, your build WILL come online, and YOU will be a GREAT Psyker down the line !

I think people also fail to realize that Idira also has a chance on every single cast to automatically generate a peril on top of damaging the veil more.

Yeah found that first part out the hard way.

Summoned a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tzeetch demon in my second ever fight with her and summoned a daemonette in my third. I now quicksave at the beginning of all her turns.

[pinkfloyd9193]

I hated that my Sanctioned Psyker is so weak....until I used a spell with Idara and she blew herself up, 1 shotted. That Veil counter thing was only like at 2 or 3. Rage quit after that, will continue tomorrow...and I'm kicking her out of my party forever.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by pinkfloyd9193:

I hated that my Sanctioned Psyker is so weak....until I used a spell with Idara and she blew herself up, 1 shotted. That Veil counter thing was only like at 2 or 3. Rage quit after that, will continue tomorrow...and I'm kicking her out of my party forever.

Despising the witch is lore accurate and the game enforcing that sentiment is appropriate!

[Nightmarian]

Alright, my bad, I guess it's just as bad. Yeah, that's why I was like, well, it's not too bad being sanctioned lmao. If you use Cassia and are the only pysker yourself (sanctioned), veil is pretty managable even if you're spamming strong spells.

Like I said before, if you reaaaaaaly want to, you can become an unsanctioned pysker via psychic awakening once you unlock the third archetype.

I wouldn't worry about powe, once you get a few psy ratings on top of higher stats (whatever your spells scale with), they become pretty bonkers.

[Ninth Hour]

I would add that the main reason that I chose to start with a psyker is because I followed the powerful but boring path of the soldier/sniper in the Alpha and Beta. The idea of a santic psyker seemed to be a more interesting way to engage with the full release.

But the implementation feels weird. Sure, having a psyker origin influences dialogue options but there is a disconnect with the game mechanics, as you can't actually feel like a psyker until level 10, leading to "ludonarrative dissonance" or more simply "story-gameplay segregation". Everyone thinks of you as a psyker but for the first 9 levels, you're really just a mundane Warrior, Operative, Commander or Soldier with one extra ability.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Psyker warrior fun if you don't mind treading on the other bois toes tbh

Sure it is. The "gish" archetype (warrior/wizard) is popular in many RPG settings, including D&D. One of my favorite "prestige classes" from the Dark Heresy RPG by Fantasy Flight was the Templar Calix- a psyker who specializes in melee combat. Basically, a 40K jedi, with Force Weapons sitting in for lightsabers.

But here, the psyker part of the mix doesn't come into play until you reach 2-digit levels. It feels like an unnecessarily delayed progression scheme.

Anyway, as much as I've now talked about it, I can certainly accept this idiosyncracy of the game. For now, I'm simply playing the same type of character as in the Beta, only with a "psyker" label.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Psyker warrior fun if you don't mind treading on the other bois toes tbh

Sure it is. The "gish" archetype (warrior/wizard) is popular in many RPG settings, including D&D. One of my favorite "prestige classes" from the Dark Heresy RPG by Fantasy Flight was the Templar Calix- a psyker who specializes in melee combat. Basically, a 40K jedi, with Force Weapons sitting in for lightsabers.

But here, the psyker part of the mix doesn't come into play until you reach 2-digit levels. It feels like an unnecessarily delayed progression scheme.

Anyway, as much as I've now talked about it, I can certainly accept this idiosyncracy of the game. For now, I'm simply playing the same type of character as in the Beta, only with a "psyker" label.

Gish is pretty much exclusive to CRPGs and TTRPGs, and it's always the worst rendition of the concept I have ever seen in my life.

My two favorite playstyles are the spellsword and pet-centric classes, and both are constantly designed in stupid ways. I've never once played a gish character in any TTRPG or CRPG that validated its existence outside of simply using magic to lazily break game mechanics rather than incorporating it into a unique playstyle like a proper spellsword.

Meanwhile, typical RPGs tend to do a far better job because classes aren't just rulesets applied to a shared pool of abilities and spells.

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Granted, I've only played the Alpha and Beta (where Psyker powers weren't fully implemented) and am only in the beginning of my first playthrough of the full release. But I thought that starting with Psy Rating (PR) 0 in the earlier versions was simply a function of missing mechanics.

So I was surprised to see that rule being carried over into full release. At PR 0, you can do almost nothing befitting your role. And apparently, you can't even gain PR 1 until level 10. Until then, you have just a single minor power and don't even benefit much from the Psyker Staff that you find in the prologue. You basically have to play as another "class" for the first several levels.

It feels like a step backward from Fantasy Flight's TTRPG, where all psykers start with rating 1. Even your psyker companions (e.g. Idira) start with PR 1.

As explained, sanctioned pyskers trade power for stability, the 20% decrease to veil damage is a big deal especially if you're going to be a spammy pysker, as a lot of areas start with high warp bar for one reason or another and on higher difficulties really does pose a threat you can't just ignore (even if it's still managable).

The way they work in this game, it's not as drastic as you think until higher levels. For instance, my mindshriek caps at 11 while Idira's at 16. At rating 1, you basically only add the bas bonus of whatever you get, which can already be pretty substantial.

At higher levels though the scaling is much more meaningful, but remember that for unsanctioned pyskers like idira, not only does she damage the veil more, EVERY spell cast hance a chance of automatically triggering a peril.

I think it's pretty fair. Lore-wise, the unenviable position Idira is in is also the norm for unsanctioned pyskers, so starting as one would be weird.

If you really, really want to be an unsanctioned pysker, there's an exemplar trait that makes you want during the latter half of the game.

The system is a bit different than how it works in the TTRPG, and do remember that it's over 10 years old too and considered outdated content. If you played it today by a knowledgable group, they would likely use tons of community content to balance it and bring it up to speed.

to be fair, very easy to manage later on,

i literally play 3 psyker team (idira, me, Heinrix) and i picked the perk with Cassia lowering warp onb every attack skill she uses, my main is a leader/tactician and i just give Cassia free turns,

on her turn she can spam 2 attack (hold my gaze) with the staff that let you not put her skills on cooldown (some staff you buy from a reputation early on)

i had a fight earlier where she had like 300+ will, 200% dodge, 120hp, 30+ regen per turn and just pew pew for godly amount of damage (100+ per hit 3-4x per turn), her own class buff was giving +100 Tgh/will to allies and you can burst to some 500-600 damage using her as a Tactician with the class skill giving +4% more damage per stack used.

she is by far ... the strongest most op character in the game, given you play with other Will/tgh characters and eventually people that give free turns as every single free turn is +5will to cassia and that scales absolutely everything for her.

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Sure it is. The "gish" archetype (warrior/wizard) is popular in many RPG settings, including D&D. One of my favorite "prestige classes" from the Dark Heresy RPG by Fantasy Flight was the Templar Calix- a psyker who specializes in melee combat. Basically, a 40K jedi, with Force Weapons sitting in for lightsabers.

But here, the psyker part of the mix doesn't come into play until you reach 2-digit levels. It feels like an unnecessarily delayed progression scheme.

Anyway, as much as I've now talked about it, I can certainly accept this idiosyncracy of the game. For now, I'm simply playing the same type of character as in the Beta, only with a "psyker" label.

Can't really agree from what I've been doing with Sanctic where you just get 5% armor every round of combat after the first and buffing resolve a ♥♥♥♥ ton which helps with momentum
Not to mention the other powers i could, feasibly, grab.

(playing on daring too)

that's peanuts, and that's personnal.

Pick an or 2 Operative with all the +int you can, and all the passive perks boosting the stacking speed (also out of LOS) and just use the Operative Knowledge skill

EACH stack provides the whoel team with +2% armor, and you can apply (and use) over 10 per turn so everyone gets +20% armor, per turn, per operative. by Act 2.

nothing will boost your survival better than that, and as i am playing in hard, the actual "hard" part is surviving the first 1-2 rounds, most encounter even my tank can get face slapped if he does parade/dodge anything.

and earlier i fought the Daemon engine (boss event early act2) he just one shot half the team ... so yeah gonna check later.

but as long as i can survive 1-2 turn, then i cannot really die with Cassia+heals and buffs from operatives.