Should I try this one out?

[tipsyConfection]

Here's the thing: I adore WRPGs, can't have enough of them.
I also loved Rogue Trader back in the day.
I do not like Pathfinder as a system and I did not enjoy Owlcat's previous two games, both because of the system and their own takes on the RPGing.
With that said, would I be able to enjoy this adaptation anyway? Or is it too much like Owlcat's previous endeavors?
This is all said without inclusion of bugs and instability, I do not care about the technical side of things, I am well aware and it does not bother me, I grew up on jank, not important to the discussion.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

Honestly, I am thinking you might want to skip the game, or wait for a sale. Combat is a big part of it, like the other pathfinder games, BG3, solasta, pillars of eternity and those sort of games. If you don't enjoy combat at all, it isn't going to be as fun. It isn't really a light hearted or joking game either. You start off with dead serious cultists killing people and causing trouble.

sigh
For cod's sake why would you start a ROGUE TRADER game with CHAOS CULTISTS?
This is something for an Inquisitor to deal with, dam it.
Where are my xenos and shrimp?
But, yeah, I don't enjoy combat in my RPGs because… Because it's not what I roleplay for, simple as. And my roleplaying style is all about avoiding combat, so, yeah.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

You will never get that same degree of freedom from a video game until we have sentient AI. This, or any CRPG, isn't all that much about creative freedom as much as it is about building a set piece from limited options and then experiencing a narrative experience as pre-set as a novel.

If you like immersing yourself in the setting and experiencing a good story, this is great. If you like the creative freedom of TTRPG, this is not it.

I never said I wanted the same creative freedom as actual tabletops. I don't expect that.
I wasn't speaking litreally, I was trying to convey "can I expect something cool/wacky as this?", because that is what I expect from Rogue Trader. If it's just all combat mostly, and if it's also some serious or gruesome ♥♥♥♥, this isn't it, that's what DH, BC and OW are for, this is not what I expect from Rogue Trader.
In general, in my eyes, Rogue Trader should be free-er and more… I dunno, sandbox-y? Not like previous Pathfinder adaptations, that's for sure, and that's what I was dreading from this one. Plus, as I said in the first place, I really don't like Owlcat's take on Pathfinder as is either, and was afraid they would take it to Rogue Trader unchanged.

CRPGs really aren't sandboxes or party games though, and they always tend to be serious. Even if you decide you want to be a clown, you're never going to be a circus.

This isn't exclusive to Owlcat, it's virtually every single CRPG and even most RPGs in general to boot. Many of them let you be a clown, but they almost always refuse to become a circus.

That's not true of real sandbox games, or narratively distanced open world games like Skyrim where 99% of the story is really in your head.

Don't think your beliefs for the gaming being more open is wrong, but I mean, you knew what their previous games were like and that it was a CRPG, so you should really know better than to expect the game to be sandbox-y as neither is known for it.

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Ooohhh, that.

Well, this game has some romances I guess.

yeah but honestly if you pay attention to owlcat's regular fans and prior games i was always worried from the get go it was going to be an overbearingly huge part of the game as that just seems to be the general trend of sex/sexuality/romance taking a huge forefront in what is supposed to be heroic fantasy/war/whatever the RPG is based off of

Along with being rly on rails and usually not having any actually meaningful drama RP, tbh.

I dunno, I feel the opposite. While games like BG3 are more open about sexual content than ever before (good, kinda weird we hand-wave violance, gore, eternal soul torture, etc, but decree satan has won and faint the moment we see side boob or a guy's butt), it still does romance as terribly as any other game and I struggle to think of an open CRPG that does it well.

A few games with preset characters and established relationships do romance well, i.e. Trails in the Sky is one of the best imo, but CRPGs? Naaaah.

It's very stilted and offshooty with zero reactivity. I mean, I'm dating Cassia now. I guess? I literally talked to her ONCE, RIGHT AFtER SHE JOINED, flirted a veeeeerry little bit, and now I get a dialogue option to break up with her lmao. Go to map, move 10 feet, romance event.

Like what?

Also, would it kill developers to weave it into the game? BG3 has thousands of new lines for the epilogue patch, but still no pet names or romance quips slipping into group banter, no, added lands to the table if you die in combat or they do (seriously, even one line added to the mix would have worked), no random offshoot unmarked quests where you can buy random gifts and hand it over and the game acknowledges it briefly.

It never really feels like romance. It is "I know have enough like you points. Can I has Romance Activation Quest? Quest completed. We are now romance. Initiate romance dialogue, then let's never ever bring it up again, not even in the epilogue. Thank you, Romance Selection."

Like, uh, okay. I really wish they'd stop and just focus on the game. At best, maybe do some intimidate personal questions that hint at deeper friendship and possible romance in the future, you know, after it hasn't been 3 days and while you're not engaging in the world-ending events of the story.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

Honestly, I am thinking you might want to skip the game, or wait for a sale. Combat is a big part of it, like the other pathfinder games, BG3, solasta, pillars of eternity and those sort of games. If you don't enjoy combat at all, it isn't going to be as fun. It isn't really a light hearted or joking game either. You start off with dead serious cultists killing people and causing trouble.

sigh
For cod's sake why would you start a ROGUE TRADER game with CHAOS CULTISTS?
This is something for an Inquisitor to deal with, dam it.
Where are my xenos and shrimp?

Rogue Traders probably deal with cultists and chaos more often than inquisitors do, lmao. It's half the reason why they also die way more often than inquisitors do and why inquisitors hate them so much.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

CRPGs really aren't sandboxes or party games though, and they always tend to be serious. Even if you decide you want to be a clown, you're never going to be a circus.

This isn't exclusive to Owlcat, it's virtually every single CRPG and even most RPGs in general to boot. Many of them let you be a clown, but they almost always refuse to become a circus.

That's not true of real sandbox games, or narratively distanced open world games like Skyrim where 99% of the story is really in your head.

Don't think your beliefs for the gaming being more open is wrong, but I mean, you knew what their previous games were like and that it was a CRPG, so you should really know better than to expect the game to be sandbox-y as neither is known for it.

Why immediately jump to "being a clown" though? I never implied anything like that.
But, cmon, Rogue Trader IS the wackiest of the Four, and WH40k as is pretty dam wacky besides being grimdark, and I love when its wackiness, the one it got born out of, is embraced and utilized properly.
WH40k games have so much potential for being amazing dramedies, or tragicomedies as we call it here. Equal amounts of grimdark and wacky shenanigans, and Rogue Trader is perfect for this out of the four old gamelines.
And, sure, I already was aware of what Pathfinder games were, but I could still hope for Rogue Trader… being more Rogue Trader-y. They didn't have to follow the same formula.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Rogue Traders probably deal with cultists and chaos more often than inquisitors do, lmao. It's half the reason why they also die way more often than inquisitors do and why inquisitors hate them so much.

never was a thing in our TTRPG sessions, dam. we barely ever dealt with chaos, outside of drugs.

[Myth Alric]

In warhammer everything is always chaos cultist. I don't think it is a really a spoiler to mention they exist and cause trouble.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

In warhammer everything is always chaos cultist. I don't think it is a really a spoiler to mention they exist and cause trouble.

I guess our games really were outliers since it was only ever a problem in Dark Heresy… And Black Crusade, where we were ones.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

CRPGs really aren't sandboxes or party games though, and they always tend to be serious. Even if you decide you want to be a clown, you're never going to be a circus.

This isn't exclusive to Owlcat, it's virtually every single CRPG and even most RPGs in general to boot. Many of them let you be a clown, but they almost always refuse to become a circus.

That's not true of real sandbox games, or narratively distanced open world games like Skyrim where 99% of the story is really in your head.

Don't think your beliefs for the gaming being more open is wrong, but I mean, you knew what their previous games were like and that it was a CRPG, so you should really know better than to expect the game to be sandbox-y as neither is known for it.

Why immediately jump to "being a clown" though? I never implied anything like that.
But, cmon, Rogue Trader IS the wackiest of the Four, and WH40k as is pretty dam wacky besides being grimdark, and I love when its wackiness, the one it got born out of, is embraced and utilized properly.
WH40k games have so much potential for being amazing dramedies, or tragicomedies as we call it here. Equal amounts of grimdark and wacky shenanigans, and Rogue Trader is perfect for this out of the four old gamelines.
And, sure, I already was aware of what Pathfinder games were, but I could still hope for Rogue Trader… being more Rogue Trader-y. They didn't have to follow the same formula.

Warhammer 40K "wackiness" is more like when a wacky humorous character gets turned into a servitor for fun.
I still remember the Kal Jerico comics! Glad to see him in Hired Gun.

[Myth Alric]

General lore wise, I always gone with there being cultist on every planet in the imperium, and they are just biding their time. If you need low level enemies for a start of a campaign though, then crazy humans are a good place to start.

Also keep in mind that the range of cultist can very greatly, from actual demon worshipers to people who have just gone nuts from the brutal world the live in.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Warhammer 40K "wackiness" is more like when a wacky humorous character gets turned into a servitor for fun.
I still remember the Kal Jerico comics! Glad to see him in Hired Gun.

To me it's more of "our psyker got infected by a Genestealer so we had to transfer his consciousness into a slumbering/dead Space Marine body" or "our chem dog is having an existential crisis and ponders if his life is a lie and Tzeentch may be his dad, so he's slowly embracing turning into a Tzeentch worshipper".
Based on the actual events from my bro's Wrath & Glory game.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

General lore wise, I always gone with there being cultist on every planet in the imperium, and they are just biding their time. If you need low level enemies for a start of a campaign though, then crazy humans are a good place to start.

Also keep in mind that the range of cultist can very greatly, from actual demon worshipers to people who have just gone nuts from the brutal world the live in.

Wish we can have one game where the main threat is Genestealer cultist.
They got buffed recently and are genuinely dangerous force now.

They are also by far the most interesting part for the 'nids for me.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Wish we can have one game where the main threat is Genestealer cultist.
They got buffed recently and are genuinely dangerous force now.

They are also by far the most interesting part for the 'nids for me.

Can agree, Genestealers are much more interesting anyway.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Wish we can have one game where the main threat is Genestealer cultist.
They got buffed recently and are genuinely dangerous force now.

They are also by far the most interesting part for the 'nids for me.

Can agree, Genestealers are much more interesting anyway.

Would be cool when we know some anti-Imperium revolutionaries and stuff, and then we find out they are Genestealers and *BLAM* *BLAM* galore.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

CRPGs really aren't sandboxes or party games though, and they always tend to be serious. Even if you decide you want to be a clown, you're never going to be a circus.

This isn't exclusive to Owlcat, it's virtually every single CRPG and even most RPGs in general to boot. Many of them let you be a clown, but they almost always refuse to become a circus.

That's not true of real sandbox games, or narratively distanced open world games like Skyrim where 99% of the story is really in your head.

Don't think your beliefs for the gaming being more open is wrong, but I mean, you knew what their previous games were like and that it was a CRPG, so you should really know better than to expect the game to be sandbox-y as neither is known for it.

Why immediately jump to "being a clown" though? I never implied anything like that.
But, cmon, Rogue Trader IS the wackiest of the Four, and WH40k as is pretty dam wacky besides being grimdark, and I love when its wackiness, the one it got born out of, is embraced and utilized properly.
WH40k games have so much potential for being amazing dramedies, or tragicomedies as we call it here. Equal amounts of grimdark and wacky shenanigans, and Rogue Trader is perfect for this out of the four old gamelines.
And, sure, I already was aware of what Pathfinder games were, but I could still hope for Rogue Trader… being more Rogue Trader-y. They didn't have to follow the same formula.

I didn't mean it negatively, I meant it affectionately, kind of like the Trickster archetype character like Q from Star Trek, etc, which I assume is what you meant since you said the games were too serious. I mean, they're supposed to be and assume you will take them seriously, but you don't have to in a lot of games and my point is the game reacts realistically.

Whacky is just not part of 40k's description though unless you're talking about the Orks, lol. I guess a more lighthearted comical adventuring game would be nice, but again, it's just not the expectation whether in CRPGs, most RPGs, or even fantasy novels.

Originally posted by tipsyConfection:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Rogue Traders probably deal with cultists and chaos more often than inquisitors do, lmao. It's half the reason why they also die way more often than inquisitors do and why inquisitors hate them so much.

never was a thing in our TTRPG sessions, dam. we barely ever dealt with chaos, outside of drugs.

I mean, that was a deliberate choice by your group/GM then. There are tons of xenos or un-assimilated human cultures that worship the chaos gods without knowing it using different names and stand-ins, it's a huge part of the core story too with Erebus and his people.

Logically, these 'free' worlds are also more easily corrupted without the oversight of imperial agents.

A lot of the unexplored regions are also simply unexplored for a reason. I forgot the rogue trader's name, but he went into a place with a strange nebula that was previously surrounded by warp storms. When they found him, his exploratory fleet was destroyed and adrift and he was barricaded in his quarters, dead somehow.

The biggest mistake people make about 40k is misunderstanding scale. Thousands of rogue traders die all the time, just like adventurers do in fantasy even if it's never mentioned. Most die, in fact.

And chaos/the warp stretches faaaaaaar beyond the four chaos gods' influence. Go read/listen to the short stories like Fleshman, Watcher in the Rain, or tons of others. There are terrifying things in the warp beyond daemons and agents of the four gods, and there's even a lot of hints of beings older and even stronger than the four of them that even the chaos gods avoid that lurk within the deep warp.

As a result, by the very virtue of traveling into the unknown, Rogue Traders run into chaos/cultists way more often, they don't always take familiar forms.

For the average person deep within the Imperium, it takes deliberate and direct action of a god or individual stupidity, but it still relatively rare. Inquisitors spend more time looking for corruption than rooting it out because they are looking where it shouldn't be.

Rogue traders are doing the opposite.

[tipsyConfection]

The more I read those posts, the more I realize that we might've played Rogue Trader wrong and that I now have an entirely wrong view on the Traders and gameline, and that it was never supposed to be what I imagined and that this adaptation would definitely never be this.
sigh