Can you be properly evil?

[KnightGoblin8]

Please try to avoid spoilers in your responses if possible.

When playing Pathfinder Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous, I found the options for evil characters to be shadowed by how the choices that were made available for good aligned characters. I'm asking from people who played the Beta more than a couple hours, that do you think does the game have enough options for evil playthrough?

The latest CRPG that I played was Baldur's Gate 3 and in that game I feel that the evil playthrough was done in the way that there were meaningful choices and you would still have interesting twists in the story even if you chose to be bad. So with the release right around the corner, if I try to embrace my Heretical side in my first playthrough of Rogue Trader, will I have a good time or does the experience get left in shade of the more good aligned options? :)

[AdahnGorion]

Since everybody is evil, the real question should be.
Can you be properly Good?

[Ghul]

So do you mean evil or heretical? As the system used for pathfinders good/evil choices should be very different from the Rogue Traders imperial/heretic system. At least from what they have shown.

[Jake Forager]

If you've *actually* played Wrath of the Righteous(and finished I reckon) you'd know the answer to this question. Yes you can be properly evil. (Don't read, WotR spoiler) (even from relatively early on you can literally become an evil swarm of life devouring creatures and consume the entire world, demon/angel alike.)

However, your character will never start out as just straight up "evil" it never makes sense for the story, why would people follow you if you're scum? As you make evil choices and reveal your intentions you gain/lose followers and grow to either hold power for yourself in some way or die. That's for WotR though.

In Rogue Trader beta, from what I could see you could begin to make choices that would twist you towards chaos, but in the world of WH40k you can't just reveal yourself to be twisted by the warp or everyone everywhere will try to kill you lol. I assume further along you get more opportunities to gain allies who'll help you go straight evil without getting exterminatus.

From what I've seen, I think it's really possible we'll get the ability to go like fully chaos, offering our worlds up to the warp and the like, and the opposite, with some nuance. WotR had like 7? or 9? possible alignments with the world, assuming RT will do something similar.

[J-Cool]

You should be asking if you can be properly good in a warhammer 40k game

[KnightGoblin8]

Thank you for the replies. I have actually not finished Wrath of the Righteous but I feel like I've got a sufficient answer here. :) It would be pretty cool if in Rogue Trader we could eventually become Chaos Space Marine level of evil if we want to.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by KnightGoblin8:

Thank you for the replies. I have actually not finished Wrath of the Righteous but I feel like I've got a sufficient answer here. :) It would be pretty cool if in Rogue Trader we could eventually become Chaos Space Marine level of evil if we want to.

It'd be pretty out of place. You're a Rogue Trader. You're there to make money and keep the economy of the Imperium flowing, not be a force for good or evil. And leaning into Chaos is anti-profit.

[Nightmarian]

Despite the guy you chose as the answer, the 'evil' paths in WoTR really aren't that great or well-thought out and are essentially "this is inherently evil" without much nuance.

Even the living swarm is like that.

It is incredibly clear that the better writing and most of the content is geared towards good characters and good choices, or at least neutral ones.

Literally look at the base pitch and theme of WoTR, so dunno why people are surprised. Same with Rogue Trader.

[Aepervius]

Originally posted by Jake Forager:

(Don't read, WotR spoiler) (even from relatively early on you can literally become an evil swarm of life devouring creatures and consume the entire world, demon/angel alike.)

I must have missed something here. What do you mean early on ? The only way I remember you can do the spoiler mythic path is by the end of act 4 start of act 5. Pretty much toward the last leg of the game.

Or is ther a way I did not know to legit get it ealier ?

[Thorley23]

Originally posted by KnightGoblin8:

Please try to avoid spoilers in your responses if possible.

When playing Pathfinder Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous, I found the options for evil characters to be shadowed by how the choices that were made available for good aligned characters. I'm asking from people who played the Beta more than a couple hours, that do you think does the game have enough options for evil playthrough?

The latest CRPG that I played was Baldur's Gate 3 and in that game I feel that the evil playthrough was done in the way that there were meaningful choices and you would still have interesting twists in the story even if you chose to be bad. So with the release right around the corner, if I try to embrace my Heretical side in my first playthrough of Rogue Trader, will I have a good time or does the experience get left in shade of the more good aligned options? :)

Well in 40k it has an entirely different system of morality based on pragmatic survival in a very hostile universe compared to the real world.

From what I have been hearing they have a Dogmatic/Heretical bar, along with something like a more traditional morality meter. I have not gotten it yet (hours away) but this would imply that there are good and bad choices and they will effect that bar. As some of the reviews have mentioned being able to use Xenos weapons and such, and here is a heresy bar, it does seem there is a good bit of potential to be entirely evil in the most destructive ways possible in the setting. For a Rogue Trader in the context of the setting being a horrifically evil one might be say having sex with a bunch of chaos worshipping near-human Xenos, trading for their technology, and then selling it to a bunch of self proclaimed freedom fighters on an imperial planet along with the Xenos Holy books and tech manuals (which enable them to use tech of any sort without the Tech Priests), and making arrangements so they can further trade with the species for more guns. Something like that would be in character for the kinds of Rogue Traders the Inquisition hunts down, would probably doom a planet to Exteminatus if it went undetected long enough, and probably cause lots of questions about what color of chaos spawn this particular trader will eventually be.

See in the 40k universe, simply killing and torturing people is kind of passe and done to maintain order. If you say attach your swabbies to excruciation engines for lulz if they don't mop fast enough that would just be seen as being a bit strict. That said if you are raping and torturing girls for your own pleasure, that overlaps with the real world in terms of being evil, and also brings you into the realm of Slaanesh corruption.

The big trick in this game would be to get it right in the context of the setting in terms of how the lore works and what can influence and corrupt the mortal soul given the actual reality of various supernatural forces in this fantasy setting, and how they operate. What good and evil are going to be isn't going to really align to what we believe in our real, chaos-free, world.

In 40k you have to understand that even the nutty things happen for a reason. A touchy issue for a Rogue Trader might be say being a tech producer who employs Squats to make his product. Squats being an Abhuman species many people forget who are basically space dwarves, who understand tech "as it is" without the religious trappings of the tech priests. This is a gray area as what they do is not "Xenos Tech" but it is outside of the tight control of the Imperium. The thing is that a lot of tech in 40k runs on "Machine Spirits" which are paired down AIs, and the "holy rites" combine tech with the will of the Emperor and so on to make it so those spirits are harder to corrupt, as chaos can corrupt technology, and thus the kinds of safeguards that come from "Tech Priests" are not going to apply to Squat technology, even if would make it easier to use for many.

That is one gray area that could be gone into, if they remember those guys are still out there even if their main planets got eaten by the 'Nids as I understand it. Do you sell technology that is free of tech priest controls, and likely can be made cheaper by you? Or do you work with the tech priests and submit to their dogma, for greater resistance to Chaos for you and your customers. Understand I've found a lot of 40k newbies when they learn about Squats go "finally a way to do real Sci-Fi and get away from all the insanity and controls" until they realize what the down side of that is, and a big part of why virtually no one does that.... except the Squats themselves of course. Nobody wants to see their Lawmower get possessed by a demon and eat half the family. :)

[solthusx]

Originally posted by Aepervius:

Originally posted by Jake Forager:

(Don't read, WotR spoiler) (even from relatively early on you can literally become an evil swarm of life devouring creatures and consume the entire world, demon/angel alike.)

I must have missed something here. What do you mean early on ? The only way I remember you can do the spoiler mythic path is by the end of act 4 start of act 5. Pretty much toward the last leg of the game.

Or is ther a way I did not know to legit get it ealier ?

I think what he meant is that the decisions that allow you to access that path are made early in Act 2 and that there's a choice at the very beginning of Act 2 that removes this path as an option if taken.

[Aepervius]

Originally posted by solthusx:

Originally posted by Aepervius:

I must have missed something here. What do you mean early on ? The only way I remember you can do the spoiler mythic path is by the end of act 4 start of act 5. Pretty much toward the last leg of the game.

Or is ther a way I did not know to legit get it ealier ?

I think what he meant is that the decisions that allow you to access that path are made early in Act 2 and that there's a choice at the very beginning of Act 2 that removes this path as an option if taken.

Ha thanks that made sense.

Same with other path actually, I dunno how much it is a spoiler but while you go to Drezen and fight the vescor queen, in the undergrund area there are 2 another paths unlocked IIRC dragon and lich.

[Ronin Gamer]

Pretty sure there's an evil play through option.

[GM Morgan]

If its supposed to be 40k, it should be incredibly hard to be a Tolkien-esque fantasy hero.

[Shadowfox]

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

Since everybody is evil, the real question should be.
Can you be properly Good?

ironically in the inquasition warhammer game all the not being a total ♥♥♥♥ choices were radical faction options

[solthusx]

Originally posted by GM Morgan:

If its supposed to be 40k, it should be incredibly hard to be a Tolkien-esque fantasy hero.

I'm relatively new to the setting, but it seems that its closer to 'nigh impossible' that merely 'incredibly hard'.