Disappointed with the graphics

[ferreirajc87]

I've been playing the beta and I gotta say I'm disappointed with the graphics. The graphics are exactly the same as Pathfinder. I'm sure a lot of people don't mind that but personally I wasn't super thrilled about the graphics of Pathfinder and now several years later with this game no improvements is just disappointing. The player character models are literally identical to what yet get in Pathfinder, same exact faces.

[Balekai]

no_idea_for_a_name původně napsal:

If the graphics are like in Pathfinder, then they're definitely good enough. I'd rather have them spend time on the story, characters and game mechanics, rather than the graphics!

It's not so much the time. Time is still a thing but it's a resource drain for sure. However, the devs required for meshes and 3D art/graphics are different beasts than narrative and feature devs.

The real issue is money. When you have very good high quality graphics/animations it costs you. The same way a movie with lots of CGI does or a Pixar movie.

Take Cyberpunk 2077 that got rid of 3rd person cinematics and gameplay during development, because it was too resource draining for what they tried to pull off with all the crazy features they wanted (that were cut too later ironically due to old gen issues, but added back somewhat in Phantom Liberty).

That's a AAA studio compared to an indie one struggling with this issue. Every single feature you add no matter how mundane, has to look "really good." Which means a lot more graphical artist work, thus costing more money. IF the development gets bogged down by making things look good then you really get into trouble like Cyberpunk or Dragon Age Inquisition.

So you can make an argument with lower budget CRPGs, you're better off making fantastic, visually stunning classic isometric graphics and animation for a lot less resources, than half-baked more modern looking graphics. Especially when it's a Squad based, Fallout in space like game. :P

[darkholyPL]

Balekai původně napsal:

That's a AAA studio compared to an indie one struggling with this issue.

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

[DoDonPachi]

darkholyPL původně napsal:

Balekai původně napsal:

That's a AAA studio compared to an indie one struggling with this issue.

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

the point is money and staff not whether the company is independent or not

[Will]

In today's (and tomorrow's) economy I'm perfectly happy for game graphics to stay at the level they are for the rest of time and computer hardware just to get cheaper, smaller and more power efficient.

[Chaos]

Here you write that the game needs cool graphics. You know how bad optimization is in Wrath of the Righteous, right? Do you want it to be worse? I hope that the developers learned how to work with the engine and learned what optimization is.

[Erikkustrife]

darkholyPL původně napsal:

Balekai původně napsal:

That's a AAA studio compared to an indie one struggling with this issue.

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

Larion has been making games for over 25 years, and has 400+ employees. Larian is not a indie studio, its like saying blizzard was indie before they where bought by activision.

[REhorror]

darkholyPL původně napsal:

Balekai původně napsal:

That's a AAA studio compared to an indie one struggling with this issue.

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

Probably need a better definition of indie, if self-publishing is indie then Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are indie.

For me, I don't care about the publisher, if your dev team is about 20 people or less, it's "indie".

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Indy is a catch all term meaning not AAA level game. Typically is a studio or publishing house is public traded it is AAA.

Yes some large Indy studios make AAA games. Larians 1st AAA game was BG3. They were almost out of business before DOS1.

Obviously CD Projekt are Indy but they are AAA I mean they own GoG.

Paradox started Indy went AAA and are now public traded since 2016. And barely have any successes since being public. Developed in house or published.

OwlCat is a small Indy not a micro indy like the Trese Brothers are. Absolutely one of the best dev houses in the indy scene,

Bethesda at one time was Indy before being gobbled by ZeniMax at the end of the 90s who were then gobbled by microsoft.

Bioware started out as Indy devs under publisher Interplay. Then Bioware went AAA while still being Indy. They sold their DnD rights which basically allowed them to make the Star Wars games and contract Knights Old Rep 2 to Obsidian. Mass Effect 1 is even an Indy AAA title as well as it set to be published before being gobbled by EA.

So historically whenever indy studios get too big an start releasing AAA that is when public conglomerates come in and gobble them up.

Same thing happened with Maxis and SimCity after SimCity 3k it is only Maxis in name but had none of Will Wrights touches. Bioware is name only after 2012 with a good portion of original team members starting to leave around 2009.

Funny thing at 1 time Bethesda was known for its sports game with its biggest series being Wayne Gretzky hockey which was knocked out eventually by EA NHL Hockey. Which didnt hit Pc's to NHL 94. And another little title no one thought would be good John Madden Football. Bethesda actually had to sue EA back in the day this is like 1989.

Then EA contracts Park Place Productions to do its console versions of Madden which is the Madden that everyone knows and they also did NHL Hockey to go against Bethesda Gretzky. And in the process also reversed engineered Sega Genesis Master system to release their own bootleg cartridges and not pay Sega royalties.

Bethesda then getting out of sports to do Elder Scrolls success and their original competitors Park Place Productions never getting bought by EA and some how went out of business in the early 90s after making the 2 most successful sports series in video game history Madden and NHL of the time.

The other weird thing is Park Place Productions also ends up making joe Montana Football for Sega Genesis in some weird royalty agreement over the bootleg cartridges with EA they turn over the Madden engine to Sega to make Montana,


video game history gets complicated

[REhorror]

It's a bad definition (if indie means self-publishing).

"Indie" should mean a small team (lesser than 20 people), full off.
Because as you said it yourself, if indie means "self-publishing", then AAA companies are indies and there's little to separate the two.

[Nightmarian]

DoDonPachi původně napsal:

darkholyPL původně napsal:

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

the point is money and staff not whether the company is independent or not

I always hated this dumb ass argument. How do you think they got up there? There is a big difference between a studio belonging to Nintendo or Microsoft that is given all the resources in the world from the start on top of a powerful IP and someone like Larian or CDPR which dragged themselves up from nowhere.

The first Witcher game sucked monkey balls in a thousand different ways, but it was charming and had a cult following. They keep doing better and better. Larian has a ton of older games, most of which aren't good. But they did the same.

When people talk about indie, 99% of the time they mean a company that priotizes gaming as an art form over seeing it as a product meant to please investors and earn returns.

This is why indies tend to make more creative, unique games and take more risks than AAA games who has out the same casual mainstream garbage and follow big money trends and nothing else (like games as a service).

While it's not fair to compare BG3 to Rogue Trader, it IS fair to compare Larian to Owlcat, because Owlcat isn't showing any sense of ambition or dramatic forward, they're crawling forward.

That is perfectly fine and something a ton of indies do, but it's never going to turn you into another Larian or CDPR.

Erikkustrife původně napsal:

darkholyPL původně napsal:

You realise that CDPR is an indie, right? A quite big indie, but still indie, kind of like Larian.

Larion has been making games for over 25 years, and has 400+ employees. Larian is not a indie studio, its like saying blizzard was indie before they where bought by activision.

That's exactly what they were derp derp derp. Same with Obsidian and Inexile right before microsoft got them.

You guys are overthinking this genre thing.

Here, do me a favor. Explain what a CRPG is. This test will decide which of you have a brain and which of you should just log out of the steam forums and probably not come back, lmao.

[REhorror]

Nightmarian původně napsal:

DoDonPachi původně napsal:

the point is money and staff not whether the company is independent or not

I always hated this dumb ass argument. How do you think they got up there? There is a big difference between a studio belonging to Nintendo or Microsoft that is given all the resources in the world from the start on top of a powerful IP and someone like Larian or CDPR which dragged themselves up from nowhere.

The first Witcher game sucked monkey balls in a thousand different ways, but it was charming and had a cult following. They keep doing better and better. Larian has a ton of older games, most of which aren't good. But they did the same.

When people talk about indie, 99% of the time they mean a company that priotizes gaming as an art form over seeing it as a product meant to please investors and earn returns.

This is why indies tend to make more creative, unique games and take more risks than AAA games who has out the same casual mainstream garbage and follow big money trends and nothing else (like games as a service).

While it's not fair to compare BG3 to Rogue Trader, it IS fair to compare Larian to Owlcat, because Owlcat isn't showing any sense of ambition or dramatic forward, they're crawling forward.

That is perfectly fine and something a ton of indies do, but it's never going to turn you into another Larian or CDPR.

CDPR has been AAA since the Witcher 2.
Full cast of English voice actors and console focus, that's a straight down AAA experience.

And no, when people mean indie, it means small budget pixelated games, it doesn't mean huge ass open world RPG with full on voice acting and actual actors.

Something like Colony Ship is indie.
Something like BG3 and Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk aren't.
Hell, CDPR IS a corporation, bankrolled by foreign investors AND the Polish government.

[Nightmarian]

REhorror původně napsal:

Nightmarian původně napsal:

I always hated this dumb ass argument. How do you think they got up there? There is a big difference between a studio belonging to Nintendo or Microsoft that is given all the resources in the world from the start on top of a powerful IP and someone like Larian or CDPR which dragged themselves up from nowhere.

The first Witcher game sucked monkey balls in a thousand different ways, but it was charming and had a cult following. They keep doing better and better. Larian has a ton of older games, most of which aren't good. But they did the same.

When people talk about indie, 99% of the time they mean a company that priotizes gaming as an art form over seeing it as a product meant to please investors and earn returns.

This is why indies tend to make more creative, unique games and take more risks than AAA games who has out the same casual mainstream garbage and follow big money trends and nothing else (like games as a service).

While it's not fair to compare BG3 to Rogue Trader, it IS fair to compare Larian to Owlcat, because Owlcat isn't showing any sense of ambition or dramatic forward, they're crawling forward.

That is perfectly fine and something a ton of indies do, but it's never going to turn you into another Larian or CDPR.

CDPR has been AAA since the Witcher 2.
Full cast of English voice actors and console focus, that's a straight down AAA experience.

And no, when people mean indie, it means small budget pixelated games, it doesn't mean huge ass open world RPG with full on voice acting and actual actors.

Something like Colony Ship is indie.
Something like BG3 and Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk aren't.
Hell, CDPR IS a corporation, bankrolled by foreign investors AND the Polish government.

I amended my post. Please take the test, though I already know you're going to fail it.

Also, you're still wrong. Hard pills to swallow and I know you're too delusional to ever change your mind, but what else is new. Maybe also actually read my post instead of squeal and cry back a retort out of anger.

[REhorror]

Nightmarian původně napsal:

REhorror původně napsal:

CDPR has been AAA since the Witcher 2.
Full cast of English voice actors and console focus, that's a straight down AAA experience.

And no, when people mean indie, it means small budget pixelated games, it doesn't mean huge ass open world RPG with full on voice acting and actual actors.

Something like Colony Ship is indie.
Something like BG3 and Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk aren't.
Hell, CDPR IS a corporation, bankrolled by foreign investors AND the Polish government.

I amended my post. Please take the test, though I already know you're going to fail it.

Also, you're still wrong. Hard pills to swallow and I know you're too delusional to ever change your mind, but what else is new. Maybe also actually read my post instead of squeal and cry back a retort out of anger.

There is nothing to change my mind.

If Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk are "indie", then every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games ever are "indie".
It makes no sense.

[Nightmarian]

REhorror původně napsal:

Nightmarian původně napsal:

I amended my post. Please take the test, though I already know you're going to fail it.

Also, you're still wrong. Hard pills to swallow and I know you're too delusional to ever change your mind, but what else is new. Maybe also actually read my post instead of squeal and cry back a retort out of anger.

There is nothing to change my mind.

If Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk are "indie", then every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games ever are "indie".
It makes no sense.

It makes complete sense. Not being able to understand why is a personal problem. Also, are you going to keep ignoring my question? Are you that scared of it? what exactly is a CRPG, chad?

Since you have such a concise, logical, literal definition of what an indie is, this should be easy for you.

[REhorror]

Nightmarian původně napsal:

REhorror původně napsal:

There is nothing to change my mind.

If Witcher 2/3 and Cyberpunk are "indie", then every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games ever are "indie".
It makes no sense.

It makes complete sense. Not being able to understand why is a personal problem. Also, are you going to keep ignoring my question? Are you that scared of it? what exactly is a CRPG, chad?

Since you have such a concise, logical, literal definition of what an indie is, this should be easy for you.

No, it doesn't make sense.
Indie games mean low budget games, made by a small team or one person.
A game made by a corporation of over 200 people, constant turn-over is not an indie game.

It is a corporate product, no matter if they try to pixelate it.

It's an insult to hide AAA games as "indie" as some kind of cred, corpos trying to muddy the water.

EDIT: Also a CRPG is a RPG usually played in isometric perspective, usually turn-based but stat-focus, that the game interaction isn't just combat, but also on dialogues and stealth, with choices and consequences where you can skip the fight altogether.

If you have Witcher 2/3 console-like final boss battles, you aren't CRPG, simple as.