Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

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deuce Sep 13, 2023 @ 4:29pm
How will roleplaying work in 40k universe?
40k is cool but everyone is evil by design and im a boring guy who always plays chaotic good. the morality seems so strict that youre either a lunatic zealot or a heretic which from my understanding means a death sentence. Im not that knowledgeable on the lore but i can't imagine how the devs could implement an alignment system that accomodates boring ass chaotic good players not to mention the others outside of evil.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
randir14 Sep 13, 2023 @ 4:31pm 
Not everyone in the universe is evil or morally grey, you just hear the most about them because it fits the grimdark setting. There are even some Space Marine chapters like the Salamanders and Space Wolves who are outright 'good guys'.
Last edited by randir14; Sep 13, 2023 @ 4:32pm
deuce Sep 13, 2023 @ 4:46pm 
Hmm i'll look them up on the wiki or youtube. whenever i watch lore videos on 40k i find guys who just come across as "murder-horny" so maybe i couldn't find the right place.
Nightmarian Sep 13, 2023 @ 7:25pm 
Originally posted by randir14:
Not everyone in the universe is evil or morally grey, you just hear the most about them because it fits the grimdark setting. There are even some Space Marine chapters like the Salamanders and Space Wolves who are outright 'good guys'.

This isn't completely correct or the full story. The very few 'good' guys are simpy used as additional tools to showcase the bleakness of the universe in the same way that someone who has their hope torn away arguably suffers more than someone who never held hope.

You see this time and time again. For instance, the "Months of Shame" where the Space Wolves specifically took higher casualities and fielded tactics more dangerous to them specifically to isolate the planet's population from the chaos infestation so they wouldn't need to be purged. Then the inquisition purged them anyway. So, the space marines personally escorted the planet's survivors to other worlds, using their own ships as shields without firing back. Space marines, --SPACE MARINES-- died by the inqusition's own hand just for being good people.

And what happened? Entire worlds and space stations cleansed just because a few refugees escaped and the inqusition didn't want to risk being unable to find them. Hundreds of thousands of loyal space wolves, grey knights, and inquisition forces slaughtered in a civil war, with the space wolves themselves being brought to the edge of extinction, their world besieged.

Despite being the "good guys," they accomplished nothing aside from losing precious space marines, both space wolves and grey knights, and made the Inqusition trust them even less than they already did, with it hinted now that they're starting to consider the Space Wolves a threat and may act against them in the future.

Oh yeah, kindness definitely pays in 40k.
Last edited by Nightmarian; Sep 13, 2023 @ 7:31pm
deuce Sep 14, 2023 @ 4:41am 
That guy never made an argument like that but also tbh that sounds cool af
Rookie0879 Sep 15, 2023 @ 1:10am 
Why do you assume that everyone is evil? Read Titanicus novel; it does wonders to show how human Mechanicus, Princeps, and the general population is. The Dark Creed novel has superbly good IoM. In Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2, we have super chill necrons in their campaign who even offered to spare eldars.

The point of the setting is that it is superbly harsh and brutal, but good people in power exist in it. And there are a lot more good people on the ground. This is why all sides (even necrons and even Chaos) have things worth fighting for aside from sheer lust for conquest. The Space Wolves once started a civil war against the Inquisition to save guardsmen scheduled for execution; after this, the Inquisition started using mind-wiping rather than killing any guardsmen who had seen a daemon. And Guilliman's IoM is slowly changing for the better.



Originally posted by Nightmarian:
Despite being the "good guys," they accomplished nothing aside from losing precious space marines, both space wolves and grey knights, and made the Inqusition trust them even less than they already did, with it hinted now that they're starting to consider the Space Wolves a threat and may act against them in the future.

Oh yeah, kindness definitely pays in 40k.

Check how the Inquisition operated afterwards. Yes, they still try to kill guardsmen sometimes. But more often than not, the Inquisition had started using a mind-wipe, removing only parts of the memory involving the latest campaign and not killing whole regiments.
REhorror Sep 15, 2023 @ 2:24am 
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who never actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.
Last edited by REhorror; Sep 15, 2023 @ 3:08am
astgdzfgdsg Sep 15, 2023 @ 2:51am 
Originally posted by REhorror:
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.

A lot of people are forced to bring it up non-stop to prevent certain types from ruining 40k. "Everyone is evil" is the mantra.

It's crazy, but a ton of people can't handle a setting with a smorgasbord of morality, and they lash out with anger if the setting isn't gumdrop unicorns and rainbows with a plain good side that wins and a plain evil side that loses.

Last edited by astgdzfgdsg; Sep 15, 2023 @ 2:53am
deuce Sep 15, 2023 @ 2:57am 
Originally posted by derpherpitucus:
Originally posted by REhorror:
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.

A lot of people are forced to bring it up non-stop to prevent certain types from ruining 40k. "Everyone is evil" is the mantra.

It's crazy, but a ton of people can't handle a setting with a smorgasbord of morality, and they lash out with anger if the setting isn't gumdrop unicorns and rainbows with a plain good side that wins and a plain evil side that loses.
it's not about that. i enjoy grimdark and read a lot of grimdark novels i adore but the best ones use levity and humour or an ounce of optimism to balance misery. grim dark isn't supposed to be miserable ONLY. that sounds ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid.
REhorror Sep 15, 2023 @ 3:08am 
Originally posted by derpherpitucus:
Originally posted by REhorror:
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.

A lot of people are forced to bring it up non-stop to prevent certain types from ruining 40k. "Everyone is evil" is the mantra.

It's crazy, but a ton of people can't handle a setting with a smorgasbord of morality, and they lash out with anger if the setting isn't gumdrop unicorns and rainbows with a plain good side that wins and a plain evil side that loses.
Ah yes, I know what you are talking about, I agree with the "Everyone is evil" mantra now.
Morte-360 Sep 15, 2023 @ 6:13am 
40k is versatile enough to have characters of all types that show the best and worse of people. There's no good guys on the big scale in 40k every faction is some flavour of complete bastard. On a smaller scale there absolutely are good people or people that aren't all evil. Crimson fists, lamenters, Commander Farsight, Ciaphas Cain aren't seen as evil by 40k fans. Even someone like Uriel Ventris isn't. Rogue traders, inquisitors and space marines also have enough power and leeway to push the envelope to try do what they see as good if they want to without immediately getting murdered. Humans are still humans in 40k bravery, loyalty, love, compassion, self sacrifice and the like still exist.

There really isn't a barrier to letting players roleplay a good character in 40k. That said been good should have costs, there should be good options that backfire on the player in some way. But honestly I'd say seeing unintended consequences for been good or evil is part of the fun for something like 40k.
Nightmarian Sep 16, 2023 @ 11:31pm 
Originally posted by Rookie0879:
Originally posted by Nightmarian:
Despite being the "good guys," they accomplished nothing aside from losing precious space marines, both space wolves and grey knights, and made the Inqusition trust them even less than they already did, with it hinted now that they're starting to consider the Space Wolves a threat and may act against them in the future.

Oh yeah, kindness definitely pays in 40k.

Check how the Inquisition operated afterwards. Yes, they still try to kill guardsmen sometimes. But more often than not, the Inquisition had started using a mind-wipe, removing only parts of the memory involving the latest campaign and not killing whole regiments.

They've always preferred that over purge, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The entire Inquisitional arm dedicated to purging stayed in full force all the way until the splitting of the Imperium when the Inquisition no longer saw a point in keeping the existence of Chaos a secret.

Do you know what happened to their purge units? They explosively expanded and purged even more, harder, because now that people knew chaos existed, and now that there are more pyskers than ever and the rift itself is affecting people and things, in their eyes things have only gotten worse and what little mercy they sometimes offered is no longer on the table.

This has resulted in them purging more than ever before, and unlike previously, the Inquisitor Lords are less willing to punish inquisitors who choose to lean on extreme solutions.

So... what exactly are you talking about?



Originally posted by REhorror:
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who never actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.

It sounds more like you've neve read or played 40k. It's objectively true that there are no good guys. It's used as one of the best definitions of grimdark for a reason. The Imperium is monstrous in a hundred and one ways, the average person lives in abject misery, the divide between those with and those without is astronomical, Guardsmen recruit to usage is cruel beyond belief and though the books like to focus on major battles so many newcomers (like you, it seems) don't realize the are ALWAYS minor wars going on and that each and every day billions die for no reason other than they were tired of being treated like slaves, wanted just a bit more kindness or slightly better living/working conditions, and then were butchered like sheep for daring to question their betters.

Even the most 'objectively' good race, the Tau, is a twisted joke. It's been shown time and time again that their unity is artificial and psychically enforced, because they fall into infighting THE MOMENT one of their mysterious supreme leaders is killed or otherwise not present. That is also why there's now a rebellion factions within their numbers, led by one of the characters I would consider generally good, but who is more than happy to use a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil sword that absorbs the souls of his foes and gives it to him to extend his life. Yeah man, traditional hero right dar amrite?

We also 100000000% know the Emperor is an evil son of bish (and is ironically not all that different from the Chaos gods it seems, or will soon be) and Guilliman thinks so too. Yes, there are good people in 40k, and 99% of the time they are always the first to suffer the most, and are ALWAYS, ALWAYS the exception.

This is why an inquisitor "does good" by burning a planet of billions without hesitation. This is why the Salamanders stand out against all space marines who are supposedly the Emperor's "angels."

You need to realize that a good soldier thinking he is fighting for a just cause does not translate to a good person. Human history has proven that again and again, and that's the big irony of 40k. Even the most righteous and kind-hearted space marine is an agent of evil, because the Imperium and the Empire are objectively evil or at the VERY BEST gray splattered with a hella lot of black.

If you want to call other people out about not knowing anything about 40k, you should probably look in the mirror, apparently.
Last edited by Nightmarian; Sep 16, 2023 @ 11:37pm
REhorror Sep 17, 2023 @ 12:23am 
Originally posted by Nightmarian:
Originally posted by Rookie0879:


Check how the Inquisition operated afterwards. Yes, they still try to kill guardsmen sometimes. But more often than not, the Inquisition had started using a mind-wipe, removing only parts of the memory involving the latest campaign and not killing whole regiments.

They've always preferred that over purge, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The entire Inquisitional arm dedicated to purging stayed in full force all the way until the splitting of the Imperium when the Inquisition no longer saw a point in keeping the existence of Chaos a secret.

Do you know what happened to their purge units? They explosively expanded and purged even more, harder, because now that people knew chaos existed, and now that there are more pyskers than ever and the rift itself is affecting people and things, in their eyes things have only gotten worse and what little mercy they sometimes offered is no longer on the table.

This has resulted in them purging more than ever before, and unlike previously, the Inquisitor Lords are less willing to punish inquisitors who choose to lean on extreme solutions.

So... what exactly are you talking about?



Originally posted by REhorror:
The whole hurr everyone in 40K is evil is like the take of people who never actually read/play 40K comment on 40K.

It sounds more like you've neve read or played 40k. It's objectively true that there are no good guys. It's used as one of the best definitions of grimdark for a reason. The Imperium is monstrous in a hundred and one ways, the average person lives in abject misery, the divide between those with and those without is astronomical, Guardsmen recruit to usage is cruel beyond belief and though the books like to focus on major battles so many newcomers (like you, it seems) don't realize the are ALWAYS minor wars going on and that each and every day billions die for no reason other than they were tired of being treated like slaves, wanted just a bit more kindness or slightly better living/working conditions, and then were butchered like sheep for daring to question their betters.

Even the most 'objectively' good race, the Tau, is a twisted joke. It's been shown time and time again that their unity is artificial and psychically enforced, because they fall into infighting THE MOMENT one of their mysterious supreme leaders is killed or otherwise not present. That is also why there's now a rebellion factions within their numbers, led by one of the characters I would consider generally good, but who is more than happy to use a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil sword that absorbs the souls of his foes and gives it to him to extend his life. Yeah man, traditional hero right dar amrite?

We also 100000000% know the Emperor is an evil son of bish (and is ironically not all that different from the Chaos gods it seems, or will soon be) and Guilliman thinks so too. Yes, there are good people in 40k, and 99% of the time they are always the first to suffer the most, and are ALWAYS, ALWAYS the exception.

This is why an inquisitor "does good" by burning a planet of billions without hesitation. This is why the Salamanders stand out against all space marines who are supposedly the Emperor's "angels."

You need to realize that a good soldier thinking he is fighting for a just cause does not translate to a good person. Human history has proven that again and again, and that's the big irony of 40k. Even the most righteous and kind-hearted space marine is an agent of evil, because the Imperium and the Empire are objectively evil or at the VERY BEST gray splattered with a hella lot of black.

If you want to call other people out about not knowing anything about 40k, you should probably look in the mirror, apparently.
Ah, OK, "everyone is evil in Warhammer 40K".
Let's keep it that way, mmmmkay?
Deskath Sep 17, 2023 @ 6:47am 
Wh40k lore is deep and varied, coz many many people were making stories during all the years . And considering constant canon changes one cant be sure what GW actually considers "canon"

So lets wait for the release, play it a few times and see whats what :)
Nightmarian Sep 17, 2023 @ 11:39pm 
Originally posted by Deskath...:
Wh40k lore is deep and varied, coz many many people were making stories during all the years . And considering constant canon changes one cant be sure what GW actually considers "canon"

So lets wait for the release, play it a few times and see whats what :)

Games Workshop absolutely decides what is or isn't canon, and they're obsessive about it. To be an artist for them, you have to get everything perfectly fine or they'll reject you.

I have a friend who is a pretty famous artist, does a lot of book covers and lives off $1k+ commissions on the cheapest he has to pick and choose. He also does some work for Magic the Gathering.

Games Workshop rejected his gorgeous painting during an artist call because he got the wrong shade of gold on his space marine's armor and apparently put on some kind of emblem that the chapter uses sometimes on members except that one or something, I don't remember. Point is, both were fixable, but they told him they don't want someone who can learn 40k lore, they want someone who lives and breathes it already and wouldn't have made that mistake to begin with.

They are utterly bonkers with their stuff. That's why they tried to copyright "space marine" and "imperial guard" and got laughed right out of the room.
Fluff Sep 18, 2023 @ 7:59am 
In beta roleplaying was somewhat between:


- mature
- mature angry
- hurt ego confidence problems
- 'chaotic stupid'

So it was all over the place. Some dialogue options were cool, some were "how immature or stupid you need to be to even say this oO", they weren't just looking like what a child with insecurity problems and need to boost ego would say, but logically wrong.

Heretic path wasn't much heretical or different, but I didn't see 100% of beta and things can be different on release, may be it's more impactful later on.

So overall 50/50, sometimes you basically didn't have an option since only 1 out of 4 wasn't straight up stupid. Sometimes they were more interesting and various.
Last edited by Fluff; Sep 18, 2023 @ 8:02am
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Date Posted: Sep 13, 2023 @ 4:29pm
Posts: 15