Chaos Corruption?

[DUI Hire]

I really hope there will be an option to corrupt your crew and fall to the ruinous powers. I'd rather serve the warmaster than the corpse emperor

[G Willikers]

That's definitely true, I think it would work as an Imperial/Chaos/Xenos split (the last of which you essentially go your own way) especially given how long the development cycle seems to be and how polished the alpha apparently is. I just think wrath tried to be bigger than they had the ability to make it so hopefully the focus here is on maximizing a few paths rather than trying to follow every possible thread

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por G Willikers:

That's definitely true, I think it would work as an Imperial/Chaos/Xenos split (the last of which you essentially go your own way) especially given how long the development cycle seems to be and how polished the alpha apparently is. I just think wrath tried to be bigger than they had the ability to make it so hopefully the focus here is on maximizing a few paths rather than trying to follow every possible thread

In 40k that's all there really is for a human, either be a loyalist, turn to chaos, or go renegade.
So the limit is pretty much three paths at most in terms of main options in a 40k game.

[Jaeger]

Yeeeeah, one of the irritating ironies of a setting that claims to be almost incomprehensibly huge and full of possibilities. If you aren't Imperium, Chaos, or *maybe* a Xenos that isn't a Space Marine punching bag, you're basically irrelevant.

[Balekai]

When you think about it those three paths also apply to a lot of other order races too.

[Jaeger]

When you say "Order", do you mean in 40K terms, or Fantasy?

In 40K, I'd argue that the big issue from a variety standpoint is that the Space Marines are very much the main characters of the entire setting, with the Imperium and Chaos (which is mostly represented by Space Marines...) being the runners-up.

[Balekai]

Publicado originalmente por Jaeger:

When you say "Order", do you mean in 40K terms, or Fantasy?

In 40K, I'd argue that the big issue from a variety standpoint is that the Space Marines are very much the main characters of the entire setting, with the Imperium and Chaos (which is mostly represented by Space Marines...) being the runners-up.

You could say actually that I'm borrowing from the fantasy term though that wasn't my intention lol. I meant order races as a way to describe basically any major race that has some semblance of true civilization without a major chaos influence in control. I guess I could have said civilized races too, but there's plenty of galactic races out there that do have civilizations but they're totally corrupted by chaos.

So order I guess is any civilization with rigid structural, orderly and proper governance that adds a net structural, civil and anti corrupted gain in the Galaxy (if you don't count the fact that these huge civilizations passively feed chaos lol), and fight Chaos mainly because it would lead to their destruction as a civilizations and peoples. So the Imperium, Eldar, Tau, Necrons and to a lesser extent Dark Eldar, because of their raider/slaver/sadistic civilization.

In those societies that can be said to be a real civilization there really is only three paths due to the dystoptian or tyrannical natures of them: Loyalist, Renegade (leading to you likely being exiled and/or hunted down just the same as chaos corrupted), or turn to chaos (Tau of course being an exception because of their natural or unnatural resistance due to their very small warp presence. something else unknown and they don't spend a lot of time dealing with the warp in the first place).

I agree that Space Marines take up a lot of oxygen and are a reason why more things aren't explored or fleshed out in the setting. That's also partially because 40k (and fantasy) were a Tabletop war game first and foremost for a long time. The lore/novels and early games were secondary. Just a way to sell people on 40K tabletop and build up fan immersion and loyalty. Its still the same today but the franchise is growing way beyond what it used to be. Video games all over the place and a series now coming out.

The secret is Space Marines in addition to being central lore figures naturally, probably sell the most so they become the focus in everything. Capitalism yay! :D

That's why I think this game will be refreshing. A deep dive CRPG into the Imperium from a Rogue Trader's perspective will be pretty cool and new. A chance to explore parts of 40K lore we don't normally see. Especially compared to the action shooter/tactical games most 40K games are. Game information has already hinted at renegade and likely corrupted paths. :)

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por G Willikers:

Publicado originalmente por Jaeger:

I think some of the trailers have hinted at the possibility, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't an option for it at some point.

The main issue with alternate evil/corruption routes is the extra workload it can put on the writers and developers to account for the possibilities. However, you're a Rogue Trader, so being self-serving and building up a power base that flies in the face of Imperium law is what you *do* anyway.

Just flavor it in chaos, have some covert daemon interactions/temptations, account for companions getting corrupted or turning on you, and...bam.

I feel like wrath of the righteous suffered badly from this, there were so many paths that many of them were never really fleshed out

To be honest this game probably could go the Bethesda route.

Where you can choose a side in the end (Faction A, Faction B, Hidden C, or By Yourself) so only four main routes. Then your choices and how they shape the galaxy / characters outside of the campaign can be mostly address in a post game epilogue.

I don't imagine this game needs more than 5 routes at most.
Loyalist, Corrupted, Radical, Renegade, and a siding with Xenos secret path.

[Ad'Nar]

Im not sure if they will touch that much on Corrupting and becoming a heretic or not. If your corrupted, your a heretic and not a rogue trader anymore. Also, not to mention you have a Inquisitor agent on board. The game is called rogue trader so im guessing they will focus on that.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Publicado originalmente por Ad'Nar:

Im not sure if they will touch that much on Corrupting and becoming a heretic or not. If your corrupted, your a heretic and not a rogue trader anymore. Also, not to mention you have a Inquisitor agent on board. The game is called rogue trader so im guessing they will focus on that.

That's not true at all, there are rogue traders that deal in heretical items and relics the same as how there are Rogue Traders involved in the cold trade (Xenos items and relics.)

It's all about if you get caught, and if you can kill your accuser to clean your reputation before it reaches the attention of a faction within the inquisition who will hunt you down.

The world of Warhammer 40k and the Warhammer RPGs are not so black and white. I suggest picking up the 40k TTRPG books and reading through them, you'll learn a lot about 40k that you won't learn from the video games.

[G Willikers]

Rogue Traders also get a massive amount of leeway in who they deal with or what they use to advance the Imperium's interests. It isn't even as black and white as "don't get caught", much as there are inquisitors that are allowed to use Xeno artifacts or forbidden knowledge, Rogue traders are allowed an extraordinary level of indepedence in who they choose to deal with or even ally with.

That's why they make an incredible choice for a CRPG like this.

[Gralzeim]

Chaos nothing, let me defect to the Tau Empire.

[Ad'Nar]

Publicado originalmente por Tech-Priest:

Publicado originalmente por Ad'Nar:

Im not sure if they will touch that much on Corrupting and becoming a heretic or not. If your corrupted, your a heretic and not a rogue trader anymore. Also, not to mention you have a Inquisitor agent on board. The game is called rogue trader so im guessing they will focus on that.

That's not true at all, there are rogue traders that deal in heretical items and relics the same as how there are Rogue Traders involved in the cold trade (Xenos items and relics.)

It's all about if you get caught, and if you can kill your accuser to clean your reputation before it reaches the attention of a faction within the inquisition who will hunt you down.

The world of Warhammer 40k and the Warhammer RPGs are not so black and white. I suggest picking up the 40k TTRPG books and reading through them, you'll learn a lot about 40k that you won't learn from the video games.

I think your confused as to what I was saying.Dealing and trading in heretical items is one thing, having people who are questionable in your employ is one thing. Being tainted and worshipping chaos gods is another. (OP's post) There is a difference between heretical dealings and being a heretic in itself.

[Jaeger]

Given the whole point of being a Rogue Trader is that you have a literal licence to basically do anything to accumulate money and power short of selling your soul to Chaos or (getting caught...) outright betraying the Imperium, going full heretic isn't necessarily a game over even if they take the easy out and have it just been an epilogue.

I presume that, if their is a full-on Chaos route, then the player is probably going to have enough power and resources to corrupt or fight off any opposition trying to nip it in the bud. If Owlcat's track record with their Pathfinder games is any indication, they aren't afraid to let players tell their party members to take a hike or die, particularly if you go all the way down with the evil options in Wrath of the Rightous.

And much as the Inquisition hates to admit it, their theoretically unlimited authority doesn't always pan out that way in practice when they wave a rosarius in front of similarly powerful figures or try to divert a substantial part of the Imperium's incredibly strained resources in a direction others, including their peers, don't agree with.

[G Willikers]

Publicado originalmente por Jaeger:

And much as the Inquisition hates to admit it, their theoretically unlimited authority doesn't always pan out that way in practice when they wave a rosarius in front of similarly powerful figures or try to divert a substantial part of the Imperium's incredibly strained resources in a direction others, including their peers, don't agree with.

This was my biggest issue with that x-com like Gray Knights game, beyond the basic gameplay issues like a space marine in power armor taking damage from running over a patch of fire, was when a rookie inquisitor walks onto a Gray Knight ship (most inquisitors wouldn't even know what the gray knights are), tells them to go somewhere against their judgement, says "it wasn't an order", and they just go along with it.

Maybe technically she could argue that she outranked them but in reality that's not how it would ever work. Even the space wolves opened fire on the inquisition when they disagreed with an exterminatus order.

I know it's a weird gripe but that line really rubbed me the wrong way. These are guys who routinely banish daemon princes and they're just going to blithely go along with whatever some rookie high off the smell of her own piss decides for them?

[Ad'Nar]

Publicado originalmente por G Willikers:

Publicado originalmente por Jaeger:

And much as the Inquisition hates to admit it, their theoretically unlimited authority doesn't always pan out that way in practice when they wave a rosarius in front of similarly powerful figures or try to divert a substantial part of the Imperium's incredibly strained resources in a direction others, including their peers, don't agree with.

This was my biggest issue with that x-com like Gray Knights game, beyond the basic gameplay issues like a space marine in power armor taking damage from running over a patch of fire, was when a rookie inquisitor walks onto a Gray Knight ship (most inquisitors wouldn't even know what the gray knights are), tells them to go somewhere against their judgement, says "it wasn't an order", and they just go along with it.

Maybe technically she could argue that she outranked them but in reality that's not how it would ever work. Even the space wolves opened fire on the inquisition when they disagreed with an exterminatus order.

I know it's a weird gripe but that line really rubbed me the wrong way. These are guys who routinely banish daemon princes and they're just going to blithely go along with whatever some rookie high off the smell of her own piss decides for them?

I think it could have been written better, and maybe had someone a bit more intimidating maybe. That all said, I think they probably would have gone with it anyways considering they are the grey knights and are part of the Ordo Malleus. They would never walk away from a possible serious threat, even if she is a rookie.