gunners and MGs are pathetic

[PA]

When you level up, 1AP bonus still have the same value but 50 hp bonus=nothing=0.5 shot even from a SMG. MG is even worse,MG has similar AP/Damage compare with AR SMG but 16AP burst makes it can only shot once when AR can shot twice(if 12 AP/burst) or 3 times(8 AP) and thanks to the 1% aim gain the rest of AP wasted like hell(rare will have 7% but still bad cause you shot less) don't even need to talk about the accuracy of 6 rounds burst vs 4 rounds burst.AP base games work like this, If you have same AP/Damge the more AP you can spend on shoting the more damage you will have. So the MG=16AP for damage and AR,SMG=20-24AP for damage, mathmatically you will need the MG's AP/damage become 1.25-1.5 times higher than the AR to even make it equal. Any different opinion will be welcomed.

[DShadows]

I never liked HMG's, but they do offer additional armour penetration. That will probably be the only positive thing i can say about them. But when u have to bring them for mission i give them to scouts or commandos with extra 1 ap they can shoot better then gunners.

[PA]

Originally posted by DShadows:

I never liked HMG's, but they do offer additional armour penetration. That will probably be the only positive thing i can say about them. But when u have to bring them for mission i give them to scouts or commandos with extra 1 ap they can shoot better then gunners.

is the extra armour penetration real?

[Riphaeus]

i've only done misions up to mission level 37 so far, but I believe around 28 level you start seeing some missions with mostly armored troops rather than before that with missions where only some of the troops are armored body and head.

When alot of enemies are armored both body and head, there's some difficulty.. and i think there's maybe a few ways i have found to counter the armor,


Sniper Rifle (good against head, not body except crit) - Head Shots still hit through head armor for alot of damage. Body Shots don't do very much to armor.

Rifle and SMG (rifle i don't know, smg baaadd) - I didn't use rifles much against these, would guess Rifle would usually have to hit head or crit body.. SMG don't hit through armor very well, you can get better damage with a burst against head (hard to hit a burst to head with multiple hits though) but burst to body is very ineffective.

Assault Rifle (head hits good, crits always good, body not good at all like SMG) - not as bad as SMG, but still bad against body unless you crit a hit. Crit is good. Against Head you can do damage against armor with Assault Rifle, but you have sometimes low chance to hit. Even just one hit usually hits okay though.

Machine Gun (a burst to body armor will usually hit decent!! head tough to hit of course with MG) - machine gun has better armor penetration against body than assault rifle and smg. you can hit body shots with machine gun if you have the AP and position/ready to burst fire. One shot not going to do alot usually against body armor. A burst, will do okay though, unlike Assault Rifle and SMG.


I believe armor penetration comes from Damage per bullet (Sniper and Machine Gun are high, Assault Rifle and Rifle are okay, SMG is low), so less damage is taken out by the armor per bullet, but also, i am thinking maybe a burst shot that hits same spot multiple times quickly helps get damage through on body armor on the consecutive hits.

This second reason helps automatic fire a little i think, assuming you can whittle down the armor. Machine Gun works well for this.

so i think there maybe good armor penetration for machine gun for one or possibly two reasons. but yes they are still too high AP for the burst fire to be good weapons usually *sad face* : ' (


I would say for these missions, 2 Snipers shooting one target down at a time (head shot), with a machine gunner and assault rifle to hit whoever gets close to the snipers and the group. machine gunner can hit body armor (and take a hit or two), assault rifle has mix of abilities.. can hit unarmored, sometimes armored (hit same body armor machine gun just hit), possibly crit with Dex, can sneak around with Dex and flank, take a hit or two sometimes with Strength.

But I don't play Rifles enough to comment on amor penetration effectiveness. SMG is not effective.

sorry for long post

Allen

[PA]

I agree, armor penetration does comes from Damage per bullet, every armor have a armor value that means any damage below that will be blocked by armor but the armor's durability will decrease which will lead to a decrease of armor value so in the end you will hit through it. Then this becomes a math problem because the damage you need to kill =HP+damage blocked by armor. So how many damage will be blocked by armar will be determined by armor value, armor durability,HP and damage per shot. The result will be complicated,but consider that MG have less damage potential because the high AP cost it will not become better than AR or SMG against armor and AR and SMG have one more advantage that is their damage are more smooth.Its like use two saw cut wood the one with more sawtooth will cut through it first.
BTW I use interrupt to kill armor unite they will expose their side armor to me and also silenced sniper will do as well. becareful with the sound value 80 means more than 20m is safe range enemy will not hear you and if you didnt kill them they will run randomly so better use two snipers kill one at a round.