I got to ruthless in operations and this started happening...

[Miles LongDong]

Twas my second operation on ruthless. Was myself on assault with thunder hammer, a BOT and a heavy using the multi melta. The heavy completely trivialised the game. Hordes of trash mobs get dealt with effortlessly 1 shotting minoris whereas thunder hammer light attacks take 3 swings and 10 times the time investment. Same with heavy attacks, they may 1 shot minoris but it takes way more time to activate. Killed the hive tyrant in 15 seconds. It went for him straight away so I positioned near it and rocked it with a fully loaded aftershock. It does a lot of damage somewhere around 5-10% of its hp. To my shock his multi melta shots were doing close to the same damage. After I hit it with aftershock it started coming for me and the heavy just stood behind it and killed it with the melta it was crazy how quickly it died.

At the end his gun damage was 28k. I've played quite a lot of operations with quite a few different players and nothing else has ever gotten close to that amount of damage.

Nerf the melta in some way without ruining the gun its OP right now. Perhaps make ammo more sparse and less sustainable for it so that there is a real risk they run out of ammo and have to rely on their secondary.

[Medicles]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

In case you don't know the melta have a bug (I hope its a bug and not a feature) that get's the lost health with the melta and not only with melee weapons, so you could be down to 1%, shoot 1 melta and with the tons of mobs around you (and it going trough all of them) pop back to 100% over and over and over and over...

Melta needs to stay as it is, remove its ability to gain back the contested health and buff all weapons on a similar level.

PS. Keep in mind we will get another level of difficulty.

See, you already dont understand it. The bug doesnt matter here. Its significant for sure, but without the bug the Melta would still trivialize the game, just because of its raw power. And again, if they turn every weapon to that power level, then it doesnt matter that we will get a new difficulty because the first four difficulties are already compromised. None of them would be of any challenge at all, because all weapons would basically perform three tiers above their actual one. Thats how you kill a game in a week, because why playing when everyone can just trivialize any run on any difficulty?

[rases]

Melta isn't the be-all end-all. Is it strong? Yes. Is it OP? No, especially once they fix the bugged healing. Could it need a nerf? Maybe, taking off both the +Melee damage and +Max Ammo could be good to make the weapon more versatile in its perks, while also hitting its ability to be full at every encounter. Reducing the damage dealt to Majoris+ could also be a way to make it less of a jack of all trades

It's a weapon made to deal with hordes, so it's normal that it ramps up damage very fast and usually can take the lead in the scoreboard. Are you going to cry that lasgun is also OP when you'll meet a sniper with a relic gun fully perked up to max, doing the same to the Tyrant?

The real problem is that every other gun is, to put it simply, very inefficient so Melta stands out as a powerhouse, when instead it's only doing what it should do. Heavy bolter needs too much time to deal with threats and the plasma feels... bad.

[MojoThePower]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Medicles:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

In case you don't know the melta have a bug (I hope its a bug and not a feature) that get's the lost health with the melta and not only with melee weapons, so you could be down to 1%, shoot 1 melta and with the tons of mobs around you (and it going trough all of them) pop back to 100% over and over and over and over...

Melta needs to stay as it is, remove its ability to gain back the contested health and buff all weapons on a similar level.

PS. Keep in mind we will get another level of difficulty.

See, you already dont understand it. The bug doesnt matter here. Its significant for sure, but without the bug the Melta would still trivialize the game, just because of its raw power. And again, if they turn every weapon to that power level, then it doesnt matter that we will get a new difficulty because the first four difficulties are already compromised. None of them would be of any challenge at all, because all weapons would basically perform three tiers above their actual one. Thats how you kill a game in a week, because why playing when everyone can just trivialize any run on any difficulty?

Look at the balance problem more broadly. It's not limited to just weapon damage.

Enemies have excessively high HP values ​​on 3, 4 difficulties. Lowering them to a level where bolter weapons would cope even at their current state, provided they are at least purple rarity, would be fine.

4th difficulty also differs in that the enemy damage is much higher and there are fewer supplies on the map. Let it all remain. There will be no easy run even if the values ​​of enemy HP and/or weapon damage are revised.

[Xan84]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Fryskar:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

Nah man, the HP recovery of contested health is completely busted, it needs removed.

Reworking why not, removing lol.

Nop, removed. It should only work on melee weapons.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Medicles:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

In case you don't know the melta have a bug (I hope its a bug and not a feature) that get's the lost health with the melta and not only with melee weapons, so you could be down to 1%, shoot 1 melta and with the tons of mobs around you (and it going trough all of them) pop back to 100% over and over and over and over...

Melta needs to stay as it is, remove its ability to gain back the contested health and buff all weapons on a similar level.

PS. Keep in mind we will get another level of difficulty.

See, you already dont understand it. The bug doesnt matter here. Its significant for sure, but without the bug the Melta would still trivialize the game, just because of its raw power. And again, if they turn every weapon to that power level, then it doesnt matter that we will get a new difficulty because the first four difficulties are already compromised. None of them would be of any challenge at all, because all weapons would basically perform three tiers above their actual one. Thats how you kill a game in a week, because why playing when everyone can just trivialize any run on any difficulty?

I don't agree. Just because out of 300 people 1 is that good, you should not screw up 299 other people. Its a game, fun comes first. They are already adding another difficulty. Really good people should go there.

[Bill Waggoner]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dr. Rockso:

Melta is broken so it doesn't really surprise me.

Question is will it get nerfed into the ground?

That's why I have already stacked 20 relic marks, and I'll farm a few more today. Since I assume they're going to go the way of Helldivers with the nerfs.


The damage from mobs is ♥♥♥♥♥♥, to say the least. One stagger can combo you into 2-3 and you go 100-20% health from one mistake, one mistimed dodge. For example, I mistimed the dodge on the neurothrope green ball attack, first hit me and staggered, even though I was spamming dodge I didn't regain control before second hit, which comboed into the 3rd.

[Medicles]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MojoThePower:

Look at the balance problem more broadly. It's not limited to just weapon damage.

Enemies have excessively high HP values ​​on 3, 4 difficulties. Lowering them to a level where bolter weapons would cope even at their current state, provided they are at least purple rarity, would be fine.

4th difficulty also differs in that the enemy damage is much higher and there are fewer supplies on the map. Let it all remain. There will be no easy run even if the values ​​of enemy HP and/or weapon damage are revised.

Enemies having high hp on the highest difficulty is not a balance issue. If you tone the HP down, then every weapon has to be rebalanced. You cant just let them stay the way they are now, it would be ridiculous. Not to mention that Melta would still outperform, simply because of quick burst damage that annihilates a group of enemies in one shot. Thats not good.

The easiest way to handle this now is nerfing the melta a little bit, even just taking away personal ammunition recovery would do something significant. The weapons power can still be part of the game, when you actually have to limit yourself using it on specific situations, not being able to spam it. Then buffing the other weapons with small changes. Do that for a couple month with a balance patch at least every month and we should have a pretty good balance before next year.

[Medicles]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

I don't agree. Just because out of 300 people 1 is that good, you should not screw up 299 other people. Its a game, fun comes first. They are already adding another difficulty. Really good people should go there.

Yeah, fun comes first. How much fun is a game where you arent really needed because someone else is trivializing it? I have seen it happening several times, especially in Vermintide 2. First with the abnormal damage of the Moonbow, which later got nerfed into the ground, up to the Deepwood Staff that not only had an extremely efficient Crit Build but could also levitate enemies to basically stun them out of the fight and that was easily spammable. Want to know how much fun we had when every dangerous thing was immediately taken care of without much effort? Not that much.

[Orfin]

Well yes both meltas are ridiculously overpowered, meanwhile melee weapons are weak. Power swords and thunder hummers should bring absolute destruction but they just don't. Melee combat is a risk and therefore should do much more damage than beaindead melta spam

[Xan84]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Medicles:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

I don't agree. Just because out of 300 people 1 is that good, you should not screw up 299 other people. Its a game, fun comes first. They are already adding another difficulty. Really good people should go there.

Yeah, fun comes first. How much fun is a game where you arent really needed because someone else is trivializing it? I have seen it happening several times, especially in Vermintide 2. First with the abnormal damage of the Moonbow, which later got nerfed into the ground, up to the Deepwood Staff that not only had an extremely efficient Crit Build but could also levitate enemies to basically stun them out of the fight and that was easily spammable. Want to know how much fun we had when every dangerous thing was immediately taken care of without much effort? Not that much.

Again, they will put in another difficulty, go there. You are supposed to be able to finish difficulty 4 with difficulty 3 gear. Obviously with full difficulty 4 gear and all perks maxed out, lvl maxed out you will do really well in it. You don't even need max level 25 for difficulty 4, obviously when you have everything you will stomp assuming you're that good.

Now again, go to difficulty 5 when they will put it in.

[Haggis]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Medicles:

I believe you people dont understand what balance is. Dude literally told you that one Heavy with a Multimelta trivialized the highest difficulty and you want other weapons on the same level?

Why having difficulty tiers then? Everyone just crushes everything without any effort.

Balance is a tricky thing. Of course the Melta has to be nerfed and of course the other weapons have to be buffed, within reason. Small but constant changes. Not using the nerfhammer.

Well said. I'm used to disagreeing with you on Darktide forums, but here you are absolutely right.

Generally speaking in a PVE game I am okay with weapons being slightly overtuned, but it should not come at the cost of everyone else's enjoyment. I personally don't care if people can self-sustain with meltas, what I don't like is them dealing with everything so effectively.

I have no idea how true the OP's statements are about boss damage though. I was under the assumption that the meltas were designed more for dealing with large groups of minoris enemies, and as they are generally what is most dangerous, it already made it a great weapon. If it is capable of melting bosses as well then that definitely needs to be addressed. They probably shouldn't stagger majoris enemies too, make them more of a dedicated horde-clear type weapon, it would still have a high pick rate that way.

[Rock]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MojoThePower:

1)* Note: only the grenade launcher saves the Bolt Rifle but on relic status.

Ah, a fellow brother who knows. Noob tube is awesome. Deletes everything once it hits relic. More disgusting than melta weapons.

[noobhead]

its co-op. if it helps your group to win, its fine tbh

[Lagrossebête]

WE NEED FRIENDLY FIRE !!

[MojoThePower]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Medicles:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan84:

I don't agree. Just because out of 300 people 1 is that good, you should not screw up 299 other people. Its a game, fun comes first. They are already adding another difficulty. Really good people should go there.

Yeah, fun comes first. How much fun is a game where you arent really needed because someone else is trivializing it? I have seen it happening several times, especially in Vermintide 2. First with the abnormal damage of the Moonbow, which later got nerfed into the ground, up to the Deepwood Staff that not only had an extremely efficient Crit Build but could also levitate enemies to basically stun them out of the fight and that was easily spammable. Want to know how much fun we had when every dangerous thing was immediately taken care of without much effort? Not that much.

I can give you examples of the exact opposite. I spent a lot of time in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and Mass Effect: Andromeda multiplayer. There are plenty of overpowered stuff there. ME3: Cerberus harrier assault rifle, Acolyte pistol, Geth Juggernaut (which can heal himself and cannot be sync-killed), Alliance Infiltration Unit (has an ability to simply revive yourself). ME:A: P.A.W. assault rifle (infinite ammo, very high damage, very high RoF, very high accuracy) plus all weapons have variant which can heal you (including the P.A.W. that heals you lol).

And know what? People are ok with all this stuff. They don't complain that the game has become easy. Those who play seriously and for a long time, they will play enough with overpowered characters / weapons and take something else for their fun (they got fullfilled). And many will play for hundreds of hours as is, just with this overpowered stuff, because it's so much fun for them.

Now I'll move on to why people still play this (and each run is just a reflection of 11 or 7 enemy waves on an arena map and that's it; 13 maps in ME3, 9 maps in ME:A). ME3 was 2012 game (12.5 years old lol), ME:A was 2017 game.
1) Enjoyment from the gameplay, from the game mechanics, from the combat.
2) A huge number of characters and a simply gigantic number of weapons, each of which has 4 levels of rarity and 10 ranks. And you need many, many hundreds of hours (under 1000 hours in total) to open all this and get the maximum rank.
Overpowered weapons and characters have very little impact on the terrific scale of this grind.

Now to the conclusions.

1) Good things.
"Enjoyment from the gameplay, from the game mechanics, from the combat" - Space Marine 2 is almost have all this. Game just needs some buffs for some weapons and for some class (assault) and/or maybe some nerfs to enemies and (yes) melta (I didn't position above that melta should be left, it's just that a lot of other things need to be revised).
And the main point: overpowered weapons will not take away the fun. Something else has to keep people in the game so that they play the same thing over and over again, even if it is not difficult.

2) Bad things.
There is a lack of content and mechanics that could keep the player in PvE mode for hundreds of hours in Space Marine 2. For now. I would very much like for the situation to change in the future. Making an insufferably difficult operation and nerfing all weapons will not keep players in the game for long. Need something else.
Progress is happening very quickly across all existing content.
You can open new weapons relatively easily and quickly. On the tenth day of the game I completed the operation on 4th difficulty with random players. On 11th day of the game I had about a dozen of relic points and two 25 lvl characters. There will be no more undiscovered PvE content by the end of the month.
And with armor it’s even easier. One evening of good playing in PVP mode for one class and you have all of his armor, everything.

[Travis Touchdown]

I'd rather they just buff all the other weapons, to be honest. I'd also like a massive buff for melee across the board. Assault needs the help and melee in general on higher difficulties feels bad. Feels like the way contested health interacts with the two melta guns is how it should interact with melee.

It doesn't feel like it should be a punishment, either. The game is built around the interplay between melee and ranged combat, so it shouldn't feel like you've made a mistake getting into melee combat with a bunch of the dedicated melee swarm enemies.