Are Block weapons bad compared to Parry & Balanced?

[Vi [Helldiver Medical Corps]]

I'm getting absolutely clapped now that I'm trying a blocking weapon. Is it just me?

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

It needs a better explanation in game, but my assumption is that while block weapons are less desirable

Unfortunately this is the incorrect stigma I was given too when I was new. I have a level 25 Assault and use the t4 block Thunder Hammer. My overall DPS gains are higher with the block weapon even if I was to land every single parry with a balanced or fencing weapons. Fencing weapons are only good if you are building specifically around parrying, and you need help actually landing parries. If was a spreadsheet nerd, I assume the overall effectiveness of just hitting harder on every single hit outweigh the burst damage for the occasional perfect parry.

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by IBePraisin':

I'm using the thunder hammer which says it's good for hordes, but man I get stun locked and deleted in seconds.

Most of that being me not having an opening to do anything between parrying the lone warrior in that swarm.

Hi, 25 Ops Assault here. Simply put, you need to dodge more. Sting like a butterfly, float like a bee. In a hectic fight, I never swing more than once or twice, without dodging or jetpack dashing. Never, ever get greedy or you will experience the stunlock that you're experiencing. IMO, the Thunder Hammer is the best melee weapon in the game (the only melee weapon I haven't leveled is Fist). But it doesn't really come reach full stride until you unlock the final weapon perk Aftershock Improved: Aftershock gains an additional swing. All in all, don't give up. The class and Hammer are amazing and not for the uninitiated.

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

Originally posted by IBePraisin':

I'm using the thunder hammer which says it's good for hordes, but man I get stun locked and deleted in seconds.

Most of that being me not having an opening to do anything between parrying the lone warrior in that swarm.

Hi, 25 Ops Assault here. Simply put, you need to dodge more. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. In a hectic fight, I never swing more than once or twice, without dodging or jetpack dashing. Never, ever get greedy or you will experience the stunlock that you're experiencing. IMO, the Thunder Hammer is the best melee weapon in the game (the only melee weapon I haven't leveled is Fist). But it doesn't really come reach full stride until you unlock the final weapon perk Aftershock Improved: Aftershock gains an additional swing. All in all, don't give up. The class and Hammer are amazing and not for the uninitiated.

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

Hi, 25 Ops Assault here. Simply put, you need to dodge and jetpack dash more. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. In a hectic fight, I never swing more than once or twice, without dodging or jetpack dashing. Never, ever get greedy or you will experience the stunlock that you're experiencing. IMO, the Thunder Hammer is the best melee weapon in the game (the only melee weapon I haven't leveled is Fist). But it doesn't really come reach full stride until you unlock the final weapon perk Aftershock Improved: Aftershock gains an additional swing. All in all, don't give up. The class and Hammer are amazing and not for the uninitiated.

[BenShinobi]

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

It needs a better explanation in game, but my assumption is that while block weapons are less desirable

Unfortunately this is the incorrect stigma I was given too when I was new. I have a level 25 Assault and use the t4 block Thunder Hammer. My overall DPS gains are higher with the block weapon even if I was to land every single parry with a balanced or fencing weapons. Fencing weapons are only good if you are building specifically around parrying, and you need help actually landing parries. If was a spreadsheet nerd, I assume the overall effectiveness of just hitting harder on every single hit outweigh the burst damage for the occasional perfect parry.

Yeah I've heard since that top level thunder hammer is probably the best weapon, but the balance of block/balanced/fencing weapons you come across throughout levelling don't always give the impression that block is always better.

Haven't played in a few days, but I think I have an artificer power sword that's fencing and pretty slow, but has a much greater damage stat. Overall it's dps is certainly a bit lower than the others in the class, but hardly by much and the ability to consistently parry pretty much everything in a horde, which knocks surrounding enemies back & opens up attack opportunities, feels better than blocking which doesn't help in the same way. Obviously that's for Bulwark which is easily built around parrying, but even without the aoe perks it feels like the no-brainer. Could still get those parries with the balanced weapon, but it has much less damage without enough increase in the other skills for me.

Some of them just feel they need tweaking to really work.

[Korrex]

Focus on dodging instead of trying to block and you'll do fine.

[Xarko]

As the game works right now, there is basically no point in ever using anything else than fencing.

[Akrythael]

Balance or Fencing, but not Block ofc. Devs have answered about the Block stat iirc, it might change in the future.

[KAgeRO_XD]

VERY BAD ASF !!! NEVER USE THOSE EVEN IF THEIR DAMAGE ARE HIGH !!! ALWAYS USE FENCING WEAPONS FOR EASY PARRY !!!

[gnotheo]

Originally posted by IBePraisin':

I'm getting absolutely clapped now that I'm trying a blocking weapon. Is it just me?

Yeah, don't fall for it. It's a trap.

Having 1 extra damage for foregoing parry in this game? Even if it did 50% more damage, it would still be a trash.

Just another aspect in this game that I feel like it should not have passed during QC phase.

Just use the resource to level it up and never bring them to battle.

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

Unfortunately this is the incorrect stigma I was given too when I was new. I have a level 25 Assault and use the t4 block Thunder Hammer. My overall DPS gains are higher with the block weapon even if I was to land every single parry with a balanced or fencing weapons. Fencing weapons are only good if you are building specifically around parrying, and you need help actually landing parries. If was a spreadsheet nerd, I assume the overall effectiveness of just hitting harder on every single hit outweigh the burst damage for the occasional perfect parry.

Yeah I've heard since that top level thunder hammer is probably the best weapon, but the balance of block/balanced/fencing weapons you come across throughout levelling don't always give the impression that block is always better.

Haven't played in a few days, but I think I have an artificer power sword that's fencing and pretty slow, but has a much greater damage stat. Overall it's dps is certainly a bit lower than the others in the class, but hardly by much and the ability to consistently parry pretty much everything in a horde, which knocks surrounding enemies back & opens up attack opportunities, feels better than blocking which doesn't help in the same way. Obviously that's for Bulwark which is easily built around parrying, but even without the aoe perks it feels like the no-brainer. Could still get those parries with the balanced weapon, but it has much less damage without enough increase in the other skills for me.

Some of them just feel they need tweaking to really work.

The obsession with parry is a misdirect. It is not needed. It is a combat logistic trap. Dodge is far more reliable then parry. Even if you build a class for parry, you're only going to have so many perfect parry opportunities. And then you have to land them, just for burst damage on a single target. My current stance is with the raw damage increase from block weapons, your overall DPS will be noticeably higher at the end a game. Higher DPS means quicker time to kill, meaning less time in each skirmish, meaning higher survivability across the board. It requires not only significant skill to land every perfect parry, but luck as well. P.S. I understand this is my opinion. I am not arguing that this is THE way to play... that is up to the individual gamer.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

It's weird that block doesn't actually let you hold parry button to block melee hits like a shield would(obviously it would not block ranged projectile and does not work on the move).

The typical damage increase is also far less substantial than the numbers would imply, it likely would not change number of hits on most enemies.

Also parry is way more reliable than dodge partly because it can stop enemies and deal damage with the auto riposte on minors.

[Akrythael]

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

The obsession with parry is a misdirect. It is not needed. It is a combat logistic trap. Dodge is far more reliable then parry. Even if you build a class for parry, you're only going to have so many perfect parry opportunities. And then you have to land them, just for burst damage on a single target. My current stance is with the raw damage increase from block weapons, your overall DPS will be noticeably higher at the end a game. Higher DPS means quicker time to kill, meaning less time in each skirmish, meaning higher survivability across the board. It requires not only significant skill to land every perfect parry, but luck as well. P.S. I understand this is my opinion. I am not arguing that this is THE way to play... that is up to the individual gamer.

Except that parry pushes enemies away all around the attack. Also, you CAN'T cancel actions/animations into dodge. So dodge is definitely NOT more reliable than parry. Also, different classes have different perks to help with parrying or dodging.

[Silencing Machine]

Originally posted by Akrythael:

Originally posted by RyanTheLion:

The obsession with parry is a misdirect. It is not needed. It is a combat logistic trap. Dodge is far more reliable then parry. Even if you build a class for parry, you're only going to have so many perfect parry opportunities. And then you have to land them, just for burst damage on a single target. My current stance is with the raw damage increase from block weapons, your overall DPS will be noticeably higher at the end a game. Higher DPS means quicker time to kill, meaning less time in each skirmish, meaning higher survivability across the board. It requires not only significant skill to land every perfect parry, but luck as well. P.S. I understand this is my opinion. I am not arguing that this is THE way to play... that is up to the individual gamer.

Except that parry pushes enemies away all around the attack. Also, you CAN'T cancel actions/animations into dodge. So dodge is definitely NOT more reliable than parry. Also, different classes have different perks to help with parrying or dodging.

If dodge wasn't more reliable than parry i would use it.

[MostlyPanda]

Originally posted by IBePraisin':

Originally posted by Xan84:

I would not use that one for difficulty lvl 3 or 4 unless you are really, really good with it.

Ah, I see. that's a shame.

Well, back to the White Scar chainsword build it is!

The Relic fencing Thunderhammer is strong