Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2

Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2

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Constantin Valdor 2024년 4월 16일 오전 5시 08분
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Sorry Saber, but i wont buy this. Not after the Custodes retcon.
Quite funny to say this with this account name, but GW considering us stupid and buffons was the last straw. First Warhammer Fantasy gone, then the Primaris Marines, and now rewriting the core lore of the setting with the Custodes!? Sorry, that's too much.
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Constantin Valdor 2024년 4월 18일 오전 9시 32분 
Moonlight Knight님이 먼저 게시:
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:
When GW on X was asked why of this choice (the Custodes were only males since the start of the franchise back in 1987), they said that there were "always" been female custodes. This blatant lie, and the banning of people that proved evidence (not that hard) to the fact that was not true, caused this outrage.
This is a reading comprehension issue. Describing this as lying or gaslighting is missing the point that it's an announcement that this is being retconned, instead of being made into a recent addition in-universe, like the Primaris marines.

In interviews, GW admitted a large number of them were trying to add female Custodes for a long time but were blocked by someone saying the models were already finished.

And that was a good decision. Dictated by the money of course, but still good since it mantained the lore.
They are lying and they know that, and that post was totally gaslighting.
But if you are fine with that, good for you my friend.
In any case there is nothing to add on the matter.
Constantin Valdor 2024년 4월 18일 오전 9시 41분 
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
What's the issue with Primaris Marines......
Read the Book your account is named after the Emperor only designed the Astartes he didn't create them hands on.....
Makes sense they were improved after 10k years......
I agree with everything else but i just never understood the issue with the Prmaris....i mean if you don't like the look then fair enough but lore wise they make sense lol...

Ah yes, they simply invalidated my army. I was an Ultramarines player before (10k points, now gone into Legends 😭), and they were all obsolete in a blink of an eye!
Do not get me wrong, i like new models and units for the army, but that was a total replacement.
I do not like even the lore of the Primaris (it is poorly introduced) but the main reason is they invalidated the army i was playing with. All years of painting, collecting them, an building them gone. Like the Stormcast Eternal purge right now, really sucked. Hope that something like the Primaris don't befell to your faction!
Shifty 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 13분 
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
What's the issue with Primaris Marines......
Read the Book your account is named after the Emperor only designed the Astartes he didn't create them hands on.....
Makes sense they were improved after 10k years......
I agree with everything else but i just never understood the issue with the Prmaris....i mean if you don't like the look then fair enough but lore wise they make sense lol...

Ah yes, they simply invalidated my army. I was an Ultramarines player before (10k points, now gone into Legends 😭), and they were all obsolete in a blink of an eye!
Do not get me wrong, i like new models and units for the army, but that was a total replacement.
I do not like even the lore of the Primaris (it is poorly introduced) but the main reason is they invalidated the army i was playing with. All years of painting, collecting them, an building them gone. Like the Stormcast Eternal purge right now, really sucked. Hope that something like the Primaris don't befell to your faction!
Ahh table top issue....
Well wouldn't a simple solution be to only allow players to have x amount of Primaris on the field but in comparison you'd be able to have more regular marines? (have never touched table top and with this bs lore never will)
BloodLock 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 17분 
Dinky님이 먼저 게시:
I'm sorry but can someone explain to me why there's so much of an uproar from this. All I'm seeing is people getting overly annoyed over what seems like nothing because a faction has female members, and then the other side are overly defending it and insulting the other side.

What is the actual big deal with Female Custodies? They're not Space Marines. Why are people generally so annoyed by this change they're cancelling pre-orders and I can only imagine boycotting the franchise in other ways?

(I'm not here to insult or get insulted. I generally want to know.)

I can't speak for everyone on why they feel upset with GW following the retconing of the Custodes. But speaking for myself and over 90% of my local comic book store, I can say it is primarily them casting aside three decades of established lore. I have met a single person who seemed actually bothered by the fact that it was females in the Custodes and not an insane amount of lore and established material cast aside; and they were almost 70 years of age. While annoying to come across someone with that stance, their generation had some "interesting" values so it is easy to draw a conclusion on how this player came to possess such a less than acceptable opinion. Also the absolute disrespect and mistreatment GW have shown to their loyal customers on X has been completely unacceptable. They have literally taken up the stance of banning anyone who questions them, as well as threatening and attempting to lie to their entire fan base who disagrees.

To further explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciD4T2xqcTo

If you pause this video at 1:30 you can see an excerpt from an earlier codex that clearly state all Custodes come from the sons of the noble houses of Terra. This is an extremely well established and known fact. GW is casting aside at least 140 novels worth of lore, along with numerous codexs, and three decades worth of lore to push a political agenda. People are attached to their stories and the stories of their factions. So of course this is going to offend them.

Hopefully this helps with out being insulting or hostile.
Constantin Valdor 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 21분 
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:

Ah yes, they simply invalidated my army. I was an Ultramarines player before (10k points, now gone into Legends 😭), and they were all obsolete in a blink of an eye!
Do not get me wrong, i like new models and units for the army, but that was a total replacement.
I do not like even the lore of the Primaris (it is poorly introduced) but the main reason is they invalidated the army i was playing with. All years of painting, collecting them, an building them gone. Like the Stormcast Eternal purge right now, really sucked. Hope that something like the Primaris don't befell to your faction!
Ahh table top issue....
Well wouldn't a simple solution be to only allow players to have x amount of Primaris on the field but in comparison you'd be able to have more regular marines? (have never touched table top and with this bs lore never will)

It is kind of like this, every model has a point value and you have a maximum points to build your army, to keep the things balanced. For example, a Space Marine is 16 points, and a Custodes is 45.
But the main issue are the rules, since GW really wants you to buy only Primaris, since they are way better than the original marines rule/point wise.
And GW is literally removing the old units from the game, like the old Dreadnoughts, or the Assault Marines, so you are forced to buy the new minis, if you want to play the Space Marines.
Constantin Valdor 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 28분
Danjobro 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 22분 
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:
Dinky님이 먼저 게시:
I'm sorry but can someone explain to me why there's so much of an uproar from this. All I'm seeing is people getting overly annoyed over what seems like nothing because a faction has female members, and then the other side are overly defending it and insulting the other side.

What is the actual big deal with Female Custodies? They're not Space Marines. Why are people generally so annoyed by this change they're cancelling pre-orders and I can only imagine boycotting the franchise in other ways?

(I'm not here to insult or get insulted. I generally want to know.)

To make it really short: the Custodes (the Emperor's Bodyguard, by a wide margin more powerful than Space Marines) were retcon to having female members in their ranks.

When GW on X was asked why of this choice (the Custodes were only males since the start of the franchise back in 1987), they said that there were "always" been female custodes. This blatant lie, and the banning of people that proved evidence (not that hard) to the fact that was not true, caused this outrage.
What elements were retconned though, like I understand there's a set amount of Custodies but did any character get gender swapped because of this or was any named character seemingly replaced.

From what I've seen, it comes across as just a change to unnamed members of the Custodies. Especially coming from a franchise which consistently changes the stories and adds bits and pieces.

It's just like how they claim this named Ultramarine has always existed or Necron lore has always existed. This is just taken more drastically for understandable reasons.
Moonlight Knight 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 26분 
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
What's the issue with Primaris Marines......
Read the Book your account is named after the Emperor only designed the Astartes he didn't create them hands on.....
Makes sense they were improved after 10k years......
I agree with everything else but i just never understood the issue with the Prmaris....i mean if you don't like the look then fair enough but lore wise they make sense lol...
People don't like the Primaris Marines because they don't like change.

(Well, that and there was a feeling that it was going to invalidate their Space Marine armies, which is to be fair a pretty meaningful worry to have. The fact that the Primaris couldn't use a lot of classic vehicles on release was also kind of a thing.)

Personally I don't have any problems with the Primaris marines, at least with regard to the lore, though I fully understand anyone who don't like their effect on tabletop.
Constantin Valdor 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 27분 
Dinky님이 먼저 게시:
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:

To make it really short: the Custodes (the Emperor's Bodyguard, by a wide margin more powerful than Space Marines) were retcon to having female members in their ranks.

When GW on X was asked why of this choice (the Custodes were only males since the start of the franchise back in 1987), they said that there were "always" been female custodes. This blatant lie, and the banning of people that proved evidence (not that hard) to the fact that was not true, caused this outrage.
What elements were retconned though, like I understand there's a set amount of Custodies but did any character get gender swapped because of this or was any named character seemingly replaced.

From what I've seen, it comes across as just a change to unnamed members of the Custodies. Especially coming from a franchise which consistently changes the stories and adds bits and pieces.

It's just like how they claim this named Ultramarine has always existed or Necron lore has always existed. This is just taken more drastically for understandable reasons.

The kind Black Templar that answered you up here have explained well what you are asking!
Constantin Valdor 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2024년 4월 18일 오전 10시 37분
CORNEZ 2024년 4월 18일 오전 11시 23분 
Is there a way for the community to separate itself from the crazy?

Unfortunately, I don’t know how to unite people in order to separate themselves and develop the universe further.

I just recently began a conscious immersion in Warhammer, reading books, the history of the universe, but the agenda was even here....
Moonlight Knight 2024년 4월 18일 오후 12시 03분 
ZaZa님이 먼저 게시:
Is there a way for the community to separate itself from the crazy?

Unfortunately, I don’t know how to unite people in order to separate themselves and develop the universe further.

I just recently began a conscious immersion in Warhammer, reading books, the history of the universe, but the agenda was even here....
I honestly think that GW is in the process of trying to separate out certain elements. They've already said they don't want the money of people who think the Imperium is aspirational.
Shifty 2024년 4월 18일 오후 12시 28분 
Moonlight Knight님이 먼저 게시:
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
What's the issue with Primaris Marines......
Read the Book your account is named after the Emperor only designed the Astartes he didn't create them hands on.....
Makes sense they were improved after 10k years......
I agree with everything else but i just never understood the issue with the Prmaris....i mean if you don't like the look then fair enough but lore wise they make sense lol...
People don't like the Primaris Marines because they don't like change.

(Well, that and there was a feeling that it was going to invalidate their Space Marine armies, which is to be fair a pretty meaningful worry to have. The fact that the Primaris couldn't use a lot of classic vehicles on release was also kind of a thing.)

Personally I don't have any problems with the Primaris marines, at least with regard to the lore, though I fully understand anyone who don't like their effect on tabletop.
Yeah i didn't know about much if ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over the table top so that part i absoluetly 100% understand.....
It's the people who ♥♥♥♥♥ about 'how could someone improve on the Emperors work"
Well.....the same way someone followed the Emperors work and created them in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ first place.....and that was just a regular ass human lol.....not many people know where the Name Astartes comes from and it's kinda funny cause it would make the lefts panties moist to know it was a womans name....
Shifty 2024년 4월 18일 오후 12시 29분 
Constantin Valdor님이 먼저 게시:
Shifty님이 먼저 게시:
Ahh table top issue....
Well wouldn't a simple solution be to only allow players to have x amount of Primaris on the field but in comparison you'd be able to have more regular marines? (have never touched table top and with this bs lore never will)

It is kind of like this, every model has a point value and you have a maximum points to build your army, to keep the things balanced. For example, a Space Marine is 16 points, and a Custodes is 45.
But the main issue are the rules, since GW really wants you to buy only Primaris, since they are way better than the original marines rule/point wise.
And GW is literally removing the old units from the game, like the old Dreadnoughts, or the Assault Marines, so you are forced to buy the new minis, if you want to play the Space Marines.
I mean thanks to 3D printing you aren't really forced to buy anything these days.....(yeah start up costs a ♥♥♥♥♥)
zastcat 2024년 4월 18일 오후 1시 30분 
WastingSanity님이 먼저 게시:
It is pretty simple really. A chapter that has been around since the 80s with well establish lore

custodes aren't a "chapter", chapters are a division of space marines that came about by splitting up the legions, custodes are the emperor's bodyguards/companions (and arguably also the guards of the imperial palace which is itself a gigantic fortress)

further, this is hardly the 1st retcon to the custodes, in the rogue trader days they ran around pretty much naked out of a weird form of grief that kept them from using all their fancy super powerful gear, that got changed to just painting their armor in mourning colors, for the longest time they were keeping strictly to the imperial palace and not going outside for any reason, that got retconned to "actually they've had agents wandering around outside the palace for 10k years doing things like stopping the awakening of necron tomb worlds or putting down rebellions but somehow nobody noticed at all"

they weren't even a playable army until 7th edition (so about 2017), before that they were a background setting detail at best, they had a handful of named characters most of which were dead back in the horus heresy or effectively irrelevant to the setting outside the imperial palace, even after becoming a viable army the named characters added have been mostly there for other more relevant characters to clash with or just to be a generic commander for a brief lore blurb like the sol blades fighting the tyranids

there's room to complain about custodes being retconned but if we're being honest this is far from the first and it's a retcon that most of the fanbase is going to just ignore or not care about anyway because most of the setting's lore ends up just being "the space marines show, with guest stars: chaos and the imperial guard" while those of us playing necrons or orkz or eldar get routinely shafted

had GW not only retcon it to damage the lore but the X account for GW instantly started gas lighting the community.

the message was equivalent to saying "with this retcon these characters have been added since this point in the timeline", that isn't gaslighting and I've already pointed out as much, I get being upset over a retcon, I don't get there being any point to screaming "they're gaslighting us!" aside from stirring up more conflict

So obviously the community became upset. GW made the change due to political reasons.

some of the community became upset, sadly the parts of the community who have legitimate grievances about changes to the setting are being used as a shield by the people who are using this as an excuse for political proxy war nonsense, because both sides have a bad habit of sweeping in on anything remotely relevant to their screaming match and going "no no, we're totally on your side and have no ulterior motives, promise" to whoever is convenient for them to back

gw made a choice for marketing, they're a company, does it mess with some of the fanbase? aye it does, is that new? no it's not, again, original necrons fan, ask me how much the change they made to turn them into space tomb kings screwed over my interest in the setting for years and how insulting the little "well you could just play one of the dynasties that degraded so much they got taken over by ai, those are the same thing and all the thematic points you liked don't matter right?" are, that's how 99% of the fanbase reacted to my big issue with retcons for years and now there's a full on outraged uprising over a retcon to a faction that has spent more time in the setting as just a background detail than an actual army, and more than 1/2 of that is because some people decided it needs to be a culture war issue so all the arguments are just regurgitated outrage bait on both sides
zastcat 2024년 4월 18일 오후 1시 42분 
WastingSanity님이 먼저 게시:
Gas lighting.

WastingSanity님이 먼저 게시:
The only people defending GW currently are 1 or more of the following: those who do not know what has happened, sellout influencers, those who are in the ideology that is being pushed, or people who aren't into 40k but want to troll.

Stay strong, stay resolved.

repeating "gas lighting" and then trying to control the narrative by saying only "fake fans and sellouts" would argue against you so you don't have to actually try arguign is a startlingly hilarious degree of irony there
Danjobro 2024년 4월 18일 오후 4시 28분 
Truthfully I don't see how this is any more gaslighting than the numerous other well-accepted changes we have to Warhammer 40k. Every new named character, every new bit of information about a factions lore, battles that have created etc. have all been added into the lore and treated as 'this has always been the case'.

I don't see how female Custodies is any different from that. From my research there's nothing to suggest why Custodies can only be males (vague wording in codexs are the strongest evidence we have), they're just perfect 'human' beings who are the best of the best. Space Marines are strictly male because it's actually part of their creation and unless Games Workshop suddenly change that and act like it's always been the case. I don't see how this 'retcon' is any different to the hundreds they make to the universe of 40k.

Of all the things W40k fans should be concerned about, the ever-increasing prices of the miniatures, the focus on specific Space Marine chapters over everything else and the quality of the licensed games. I don't see how female Custodies generates more uproar. It comes across as people reading too much into tweets by GW.
Danjobro 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2024년 4월 18일 오후 4시 40분
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