Sorry Saber, but i wont buy this. Not after the Custodes retcon.

[Constantin Valdor]

Quite funny to say this with this account name, but GW considering us stupid and buffons was the last straw. First Warhammer Fantasy gone, then the Primaris Marines, and now rewriting the core lore of the setting with the Custodes!? Sorry, that's too much.

[zastcat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από WastingSanity:

You really need to have a look at the GW X account. Because you are not on the same page as GW.

I've read the quote, it's hard not to since people are throwing it all over the internet constantly like it's some silver bullet that proves a conspiracy, it isn't "oh we've had them written in the whole time really promise" it says they've been a thing in universe since a specific point in the timeline

but people see what they want to see and everybody milking the outrage wants to see something to rally against

it's a retcon, retcons suck, I hate retcons, I think 40k has way too many of them, but even though I dislike that they decided to throw in another retcon I can look at it as just that, another retcon, it isn't an attack on my way of life, it isn't a challenge to my personal values, it isn't going to make me suddenly declare a crusade against gw, if I was going to do any of that I would've done it way back when they retconned the necrons out of the story elements I liked and into their current meme bait version

I'm not going to sit here and intentionally make it even worse just to get outraged, I'm also not going to pretend that gw just dropping a retcon on people is great and fine and everybody should just be happy, but somehow 1 extreme already got itself largely cut out by either not engaging or getting banned and the other extreme is taking every opportunity to shout this controversy to the heavens when I just want to wait for any kind of actually relevant news for a game I'm looking forward to

The other poster is clearly talking about 3d printing and printing out books for the table top game. I mean you even quoted them.

look earlier in the thread, the original post I started responding to included talking about pirating everything from minis to books to video games

You are basically yelling at me now... might want to calm down.

shockingly when somebody actively misinterprets what you say to try showing how unreasonable "the other side" is it's not something you take as a nice friendly conversation starter

[~ Fabulous ~]

just don't buy the mini

[zastcat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από WastingSanity:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zastcat:

I've read the quote...

"Games Workshop confirmed the retcon, but chose to gaslight its own fans and players by claiming that there have always been female Custodes. The company posted on X, “Since the first of the Ten Thousand were created, there have always been female Custodians.”-- That Park Place

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zastcat:

gw wasn't saying that they've always said female custodes were in the lore...

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zastcat:

shockingly when somebody actively misinterprets what you say...

I will leave the mic here.

"since the first of the ten thousand were created", an in universe event at a specific point in the timeline, literally referring to the in universe creation of the custodians, they aren't saying "yeah we actually had female custodians since we came up with the idea", they're saying "hey this retcon means they're not being added as a new thing at the current point in the timeline like we did with primaris"

that's kind of how retcons work, it's why I mentioned that retcon stands for retroactive continuity, they are retroactively inserting them beginning at an earlier point in the timeline, just like tyranids were retroactively heading toward the milky way since the great crusade, or how necrons were retroactively the enemy that krork and eldar were made to fight, none of this is a new thing for 40k lore

about the only thing "special" or "different" about any of this is games workshop decided to do it all over social media and gave a "soundbite" for people to cling to

there's plenty of things that can be complained about with gw's lore policy, there's plenty of things to complain about with their cavalier attitude toward retcons, but it's kinda funny to treat this as a mic drop moment when it's literally a quote saying that a retcon is a retcon like I said

[Moonlight Knight]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zastcat:

"since the first of the ten thousand were created", an in universe event at a specific point in the timeline, literally referring to the in universe creation of the custodians, they aren't saying "yeah we actually had female custodians since we came up with the idea", they're saying "hey this retcon means they're not being added as a new thing at the current point in the timeline like we did with primaris"

that's kind of how retcons work, it's why I mentioned that retcon stands for retroactive continuity, they are retroactively inserting them beginning at an earlier point in the timeline, just like tyranids were retroactively heading toward the milky way since the great crusade, or how necrons were retroactively the enemy that krork and eldar were made to fight, none of this is a new thing for 40k lore

about the only thing "special" or "different" about any of this is games workshop decided to do it all over social media and gave a "soundbite" for people to cling to

there's plenty of things that can be complained about with gw's lore policy, there's plenty of things to complain about with their cavalier attitude toward retcons, but it's kinda funny to treat this as a mic drop moment when it's literally a quote saying that a retcon is a retcon like I said

Just want to +1 this, you put this all a lot better than I would have.

(I like to remind the people who treat 40k's lore as sacrosanct that Squigs used to be a kind of Tyranid.)

[~ Fabulous ~]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από RussTerror:

If Warhammer 40k goes woke I'm not buying we have SoB in WH40k universe that's enough who asked for these changes?

no one, if they want badass female character...bring Erda back

[BloodLock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zanleer:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από PsychoD4D:

Dear political activist, care to explain the "insecure" part?

yes literally crying and throwing a tantrum because women are added to a made up lore in a made up universe by the creators of said universe.

women.

that's insecurity in all its glory.

I don't think the majority of angry fans are angry as a result of women in 40k. The sisters of silence have worked alongside the Custodes to deal with a threat they themselves weren't particularly well equipped to handle for decades. People are angry because a huge piece of lore that has been reinforced for over 30 years, through over 100 novels, and multiple codex editions is being changed to meet a political agenda. Then the company that has provided and reinforced this lore for over three decades is attempting to lie to its consumers about source material that I personally have sitting on a shelf 4ft from me. People enjoy continuity. I would be beyond annoyed if they went back and said Sigismund never founded the Black Templars. They're my faction. I've read their stories. I've painted and assembled them and had countless fun nights and early mornings with friends and family. I choose them for their story, their lore, and how they play. So obviously I, along with most players, would be annoyed if the rhetoric of a faction I've invested time and money into suddenly changed. Especially their origin story.

[BloodLock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Van Darkholme:

And you are not alone

I stand with you brother. The Imperium shall not fall!

For the God Emperor!

[Constantin Valdor]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BloodLock:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zanleer:

yes literally crying and throwing a tantrum because women are added to a made up lore in a made up universe by the creators of said universe.

women.

that's insecurity in all its glory.

I don't think the majority of angry fans are angry as a result of women in 40k. The sisters of silence have worked alongside the Custodes to deal with a threat they themselves weren't particularly well equipped to handle for decades. People are angry because a huge piece of lore that has been reinforced for over 30 years, through over 100 novels, and multiple codex editions is being changed to meet a political agenda. Then the company that has provided and reinforced this lore for over three decades is attempting to lie to its consumers about source material that I personally have sitting on a shelf 4ft from me. People enjoy continuity. I would be beyond annoyed if they went back and said Sigismund never founded the Black Templars. They're my faction. I've read their stories. I've painted and assembled them and had countless fun nights and early mornings with friends and family. I choose them for their story, their lore, and how they play. So obviously I, along with most players, would be annoyed if the rhetoric of a faction I've invested time and money into suddenly changed. Especially their origin story.

Thank you ,Son of Dorn, for explaining and understanding my point flawlessly.

But do not preach of "The God" Emperor too much, or we may be forced to take you to the Dark Cells! (RP joke!)

[BloodLock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zastcat:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Constantin Valdor:

My dear Friend, it is with heavy heart that i tell you this news: i will not leave the hobby, im very sorry to upset you! But the thing i will do is to pirate every product they will do, from books, to minis, to videogames.

you... realize the inherent flaw in announcing on the forum of a company whose entire point is to sell you things that you're going to pirate everything (including the products they're trying to sell you) right?

Thats because GW think (yes, even you my friend) we are some kind of idiots that can belive any lie they say out loud.

But back to the hot topic, you really don't understand why we are "angry" against GW? It is really simple: beside being treated like idiots, it is the lore concistency.

ooh, so we're going with a "I don't accept retcons" angle

A fictional universe, even if fictional, must be coherent with the estabilished canon. If that coherence is amiss, then nothing have value anymore. Having female Custodians is about lore breaking as having Male Sisters of Battle. If the lore can be changed on a whim, than the franchise is not worth (to me at least) of my time and money. Ive been in the hobby for 23 years now (harldy a tourist to your disappointment) , and im tired of being treated like an idiot from a company i invested so much in. So no, i will not leave. I will 3d print and pirate anything they do. When they will realize that the audience they are looking for is nonexistant, i will consider to buy things again. Until then, set sail my kin, the salty breeze of the sea of pirates awaits for adventures!

so you've been into 40k for over 2 decades, that means you must have quit so many times over by now, like when they retconned the necrons into being tomb-kings in space! oh wait no, most people just said that was a good move and thought I was weird for being upset about it, and it that wasn't an issue then clearly necrons being introduced in the first place and eldar and orkz being a creation of the old ones wasn't enough, and the change from blanks being a necron creation to just kinda existing clearly wasn't enough

ooh maybe you quit when they wrote the squats out for a while? no, nope, 23 years is an awful long time to be in the hobby while the squats were squatted before they came back as leagues of votann

so you quit over the primaris despite that beinga thing that moved the timeline forward so we aren't permanently frozen on the 13th black crusade right? wait, no you're saying this is your breaking point so we've now had multiple editions between then and now that you were apparently fine buying games workshop's stuff

when they got rid of the zoats maybe? then when they brought them back? no wait that's just like the squats, nevermind apparently your dedication to lore consistency was completely unshaken by those lore inconsistencies

maybe when elthrad was killed by slaanesh then they decided "nope, he's pretty much our only real craftworld eldar character, didn't happen"? nope not then either apparently

no, this isn't about righteous indignation over retcons, trust me I love some good retcon righteous indignation, I still get deeply annoyed when somebody's only real knowledge of the necrons is "lol trazyn memes so funny" so a little righteous indignation every now and again is fine with me, but if it was just about retcons all the people freaking out would have been up in arms calling for blood ages ago , the truth is most of the people upset couldn't care less about retcons, 1/2 the time they're perfectly content with retcons because it caters to what they like or their only real knowledge of what was being retconned to begin with was bad recycled memes

no this is a pathetic extension of the "woke vs anti-woke" nonsense that only pollutes the hobby because people on both ends of the political spectrum couldn't shut up and enjoy anything without using it as an excuse to take shots at the other side, everything has to be a "gotcha" or a "final straw" all while people blindly cry about "get your politics out of my hobby" ignoring that they're actively putting their politics into the hobby just by making it an issue

normally I stay out of these kinds of discussions, they're pointless, I'm not going to convince anybody on either side to just quiet down and let me enjoy things without their interference, but oddly enough the enraged screeching of this latest excuse to rage is hitting every corner of the internet because it's adding women to an all male group... wait no it's hitting every corner of the internet because custodes are super soldiers made similarly to space marines and people are either forgetting custodes aren't space marines or they think that the much smaller retcon of custodes will lead directly to a retcon of space marines despite space marines being exclusively male (and technically eunuchs) by design coming up just about every single edition and across multiple books while the custodes for the longest time were kinda just.... there

I collect minis, and I play video games from the universe of Warhammer 40k, but I stay for the lore. The books and codexs are my church. My faction I choose for the lore first, and their play style second. I absolutely loved the lore behind the Custodes. Sons of only the noble families of Terra with the most pure genome. Taken as infants to become the strongest of the Imperium. This was a key component as to why they appealed to me, and now it is gone. Then when players questioned the decision to retcon such a key piece of lore, they were either banned from the discussion on X or met with threats and hostility from a company they had been loyal to for probably years. This is unacceptable.

All retconing annoys me, but eventually enough is enough. Changing the entire origin story of one of the most prominent factions of the Imperium is enough. Spiting in the face of your loyal customers is enough.

[BloodLock]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Constantin Valdor:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BloodLock:

I don't think the majority of angry fans are angry as a result of women in 40k. The sisters of silence have worked alongside the Custodes to deal with a threat they themselves weren't particularly well equipped to handle for decades. People are angry because a huge piece of lore that has been reinforced for over 30 years, through over 100 novels, and multiple codex editions is being changed to meet a political agenda. Then the company that has provided and reinforced this lore for over three decades is attempting to lie to its consumers about source material that I personally have sitting on a shelf 4ft from me. People enjoy continuity. I would be beyond annoyed if they went back and said Sigismund never founded the Black Templars. They're my faction. I've read their stories. I've painted and assembled them and had countless fun nights and early mornings with friends and family. I choose them for their story, their lore, and how they play. So obviously I, along with most players, would be annoyed if the rhetoric of a faction I've invested time and money into suddenly changed. Especially their origin story.

Thank you ,Son of Dorn, for explaining and understanding my point flawlessly.

But do not preach of "The God" Emperor too much, or we may be forced to take you to the Dark Cells! (RP joke!)

Of course!
Dorn Lives!

[WhackyRavenLand]

Removed from wishlist. Thank Games Workshop for this.

[Danjobro]

I'm sorry but can someone explain to me why there's so much of an uproar from this. All I'm seeing is people getting overly annoyed over what seems like nothing because a faction has female members, and then the other side are overly defending it and insulting the other side.

What is the actual big deal with Female Custodies? They're not Space Marines. Why are people generally so annoyed by this change they're cancelling pre-orders and I can only imagine boycotting the franchise in other ways?

(I'm not here to insult or get insulted. I generally want to know.)

[Constantin Valdor]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dinky:

I'm sorry but can someone explain to me why there's so much of an uproar from this. All I'm seeing is people getting overly annoyed over what seems like nothing because a faction has female members, and then the other side are overly defending it and insulting the other side.

What is the actual big deal with Female Custodies? They're not Space Marines. Why are people generally so annoyed by this change they're cancelling pre-orders and I can only imagine boycotting the franchise in other ways?

(I'm not here to insult or get insulted. I generally want to know.)

To make it really short: the Custodes (the Emperor's Bodyguard, by a wide margin more powerful than Space Marines) were retcon to having female members in their ranks.

When GW on X was asked why of this choice (the Custodes were only males since the start of the franchise back in 1987), they said that there were "always" been female custodes. This blatant lie, and the banning of people that proved evidence (not that hard) to the fact that was not true, caused this outrage.

[Moonlight Knight]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Constantin Valdor:

When GW on X was asked why of this choice (the Custodes were only males since the start of the franchise back in 1987), they said that there were "always" been female custodes. This blatant lie, and the banning of people that proved evidence (not that hard) to the fact that was not true, caused this outrage.

This is a reading comprehension issue. Describing this as lying or gaslighting is missing the point that it's an announcement that this is being retconned, instead of being made into a recent addition in-universe, like the Primaris marines.

In interviews, GW admitted a large number of them were trying to add female Custodes for a long time but were blocked by someone saying the models were already finished.

[Shifty]

What's the issue with Primaris Marines......
Read the Book your account is named after the Emperor only designed the Astartes he didn't create them hands on.....
Makes sense they were improved after 10k years......
I agree with everything else but i just never understood the issue with the Prmaris....i mean if you don't like the look then fair enough but lore wise they make sense lol...