Games Workshop broke before the fans did.

[Sleazy]

Just removed the game from my wishlist. They can keep their non existent woke fans. I wish the worst of luck to GW

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Well first you need to prove that they entered illegally, then. Because we have a whole process around people entering the country, but it seems like you guys just default to immigrant being here automatically = illegal crossing.

Lol The law doesn't work that way. They have to prove that they are here legally. If they don't have the paper work, they get shipped back to their home country. Given all the reporting of all the criminal immigrants, them showing all the illegal crossing, etc. it is pretty apparent.

Texas decided to defend its border and put up barbed wire along the Mexico line. Biden had the border patrol cut the wire to allow the criminal immigrants through. That seems lawful.

I hope you know that we have a immigration list that takes years to go through to enter the USA.

I hope you're also aware there are procedures for refugees.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

I hope you're also aware there are procedures for refugees.

They are not real refugees... they are skipping countries to come here. It isn't the same thing. Refugees would stop in Mexico. If these were people coming from Mexico as in citizens of Mexico, then I would be more than willing to entertain the concept. But they are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7l0Rq9E8MY

[MasterBlaster]

In my view, 1 of the main problems is that the 22% GW stakeholders have a well known, demonstrable, & indisputable MO of injecting wokeism into other well-established IPs. This makes it very hard to take any assertions about such developments being done out of passion or respect for said IPs. Thus, given this known history, it becomes a real stretch to believe that this recent turn in the lore is organic to GW. Rather, it's but 1 more example of the usual suspects pushing the same agenda.

Back in 2017, BR CEO openly said that he was going to "force behaviors" (his words):

https://youtu.be/KwwN5kwjAtQ?si=jZpiizPS5wWdBGC3

Money talks. Or in this case, it dictates.

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:

Tourist here. My distaste for this retconning is more about the overarching, real world stalinesque tactic of erasing & overwrite an established work in order to push the wokeness. There are established female characters in the series, & they could be expanded & further elaborated within the given universe. But that universe is being altered specifically because it is not woke & because it enbraces the cardinal sin of antiwoke sins, male masculinity (aka "toxicity"). No mention of female custodes nor female SMs throughout the last 9 editions, & then suddenly, it-was-always-that-way-since-day-1 retcon. I didn't even hear about this revelation when the contemporary 10th was initially released, but I'm obviously not the only one who missed that memo, either.

Taking a page from Stalin's propaganda playbook, the strategy is to assimilate & rewrite the established story canon to put it in line with the agenda. Simply offering up woke ideas/story lines to compete in a free idea marketplace is a nonstarter because more than likely, those ideas can’t compete, as is probably well understood. Hence the forced retcon, hate-bait accusations, mod banning, etc.

The signature strategy with such agendas always involves forcing the alternate idea rather than having it compete openly against what is established.

I mean, the Rogal Dorn battletank was introduced in the exact same way as women in the Custodes. It's just always there. Both have no reason as to why it couldn't happen in lore, but they just showed up and were always there. Though I do understand disliking the way they were introduced. I personally don't mind it all that much, but thats because I just kinda go with the flow myself

From what I've seen, people would rather it have been done during like, the Age of Strife or somethin. Say that to bolster their numbers they went "awe ♥♥♥♥ it. Lets just do it"

There is 100% several instances of why female custodes couldn’t exist in the lore. You by now have been shown several pieces from several different pieces of literature to still be repeating that false rhetoric. The Dorn tank is not in any capacity a similar retcon to that of female custodes, the only similarity they have is how they’ve been implemented.

I have scoured several books, and sources to see if anything made even an implication that the Rogal Dorn tank could not have existed and come up empty handed. I can have at least 2 pieces of supporting literature in “my own hands” in less than 2 minutes as to why female custodes do not exist.

They are not even remotely the same retcon. GW has just used the same tactic for implementing them.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

I mean, the Rogal Dorn battletank was introduced in the exact same way as women in the Custodes. It's just always there. Both have no reason as to why it couldn't happen in lore, but they just showed up and were always there. Though I do understand disliking the way they were introduced. I personally don't mind it all that much, but thats because I just kinda go with the flow myself

From what I've seen, people would rather it have been done during like, the Age of Strife or somethin. Say that to bolster their numbers they went "awe ♥♥♥♥ it. Lets just do it"

There is 100% several instances of why female custodes couldn’t exist in the lore. You by now have been shown several pieces from several different pieces of literature to still be repeating that false rhetoric. The Dorn tank is not in any capacity a similar retcon to that of female custodes, the only similarity they have is how they’ve been implemented.

I have scoured several books, and sources to see if anything made even an implication that the Rogal Dorn tank could not have existed and come up empty handed. I can have at least 2 pieces of supporting literature in “my own hands” in less than 2 minutes as to why female custodes do not exist.

They are not even remotely the same retcon. GW has just used the same tactic for implementing them.

The issue being that the reasoning ends up being, "they just didn't use women". Similar to how they "didn't just use this really good tank at all". As we both know, the creation behind custodians is mysterious and unknown beyond the fact it basically requires infants and they're typically taken from nobles. That's as far as it goes, yes?

In every single guard book, there is not s single mention of the Dorn. The underlying issue here appears to be that "it was never explicitly stated to actually be possible", which can apply to both women in the Custodes, and the Rogal Dorn. Due to both not having any reason as to why they shouldn't, they just didn't


In the case of Custodes, I want to set up an analogy. Let's say I go to the grocery store every day and get five apples daily. I pick the best of the apples. But without really mentioning it until later, I've also been grabbing a few of the best oranges. Sure, I said I was only getting apples. But was I incapable of getting the oranges because of this? Is there anything that actually prevented me from doing it?

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by BloodLock:

There is 100% several instances of why female custodes couldn’t exist in the lore. You by now have been shown several pieces from several different pieces of literature to still be repeating that false rhetoric. The Dorn tank is not in any capacity a similar retcon to that of female custodes, the only similarity they have is how they’ve been implemented.

I have scoured several books, and sources to see if anything made even an implication that the Rogal Dorn tank could not have existed and come up empty handed. I can have at least 2 pieces of supporting literature in “my own hands” in less than 2 minutes as to why female custodes do not exist.

They are not even remotely the same retcon. GW has just used the same tactic for implementing them.

The issue being that the reasoning ends up being, "they just didn't use women". Similar to how they "didn't just use this really good tank at all". As we both know, the creation behind custodians is mysterious and unknown beyond the fact it basically requires infants and they're typically taken from nobles. That's as far as it goes, yes?

In every single guard book, there is not s single mention of the Dorn. The underlying issue here appears to be that "it was never explicitly stated to actually be possible", which can apply to both women in the Custodes, and the Rogal Dorn. Due to both not having any reason as to why they shouldn't, they just didn't


In the case of Custodes, I want to set up an analogy. Let's say I go to the grocery store every day and get five apples daily. I pick the best of the apples. But without really mentioning it until later, I've also been grabbing a few of the best oranges. Sure, I said I was only getting apples. But was I incapable of getting the oranges because of this? Is there anything that actually prevented me from doing it?

That analogy is not applicable here. It would be more like if you stated, “every grocery I purchased was an apple from this particular section of the grocery store” then you suddenly pulled out a can of oranges. Obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

Your analogy is pretty applicable to the Rogal Dorn Tank but not the Custodes.

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by BloodLock:

There is 100% several instances of why female custodes couldn’t exist in the lore. You by now have been shown several pieces from several different pieces of literature to still be repeating that false rhetoric. The Dorn tank is not in any capacity a similar retcon to that of female custodes, the only similarity they have is how they’ve been implemented.

I have scoured several books, and sources to see if anything made even an implication that the Rogal Dorn tank could not have existed and come up empty handed. I can have at least 2 pieces of supporting literature in “my own hands” in less than 2 minutes as to why female custodes do not exist.

They are not even remotely the same retcon. GW has just used the same tactic for implementing them.

The issue being that the reasoning ends up being, "they just didn't use women". Similar to how they "didn't just use this really good tank at all". As we both know, the creation behind custodians is mysterious and unknown beyond the fact it basically requires infants and they're typically taken from nobles. That's as far as it goes, yes?

In every single guard book, there is not s single mention of the Dorn. The underlying issue here appears to be that "it was never explicitly stated to actually be possible", which can apply to both women in the Custodes, and the Rogal Dorn. Due to both not having any reason as to why they shouldn't, they just didn't


In the case of Custodes, I want to set up an analogy. Let's say I go to the grocery store every day and get five apples daily. I pick the best of the apples. But without really mentioning it until later, I've also been grabbing a few of the best oranges. Sure, I said I was only getting apples. But was I incapable of getting the oranges because of this? Is there anything that actually prevented me from doing it?

It’s stated multiple times explicitly that they only used a very specific pool for recruitment for potential Custodes. It is stated that all Custodes start from this pool. Multiple times this is mentioned. That is explicitly stating they don’t use women, just as it’s explicitly stating they dont use grown men.

This is not the case at all with the Rogal Dorn tank. Unless you have some piece of evidence where it explicitly states the Russ is second to only the Bane Blade or something like that or something similar Then it would be the same, however that never occurred. Therefore it isn’t remotely comparable.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

The issue being that the reasoning ends up being, "they just didn't use women". Similar to how they "didn't just use this really good tank at all". As we both know, the creation behind custodians is mysterious and unknown beyond the fact it basically requires infants and they're typically taken from nobles. That's as far as it goes, yes?

In every single guard book, there is not s single mention of the Dorn. The underlying issue here appears to be that "it was never explicitly stated to actually be possible", which can apply to both women in the Custodes, and the Rogal Dorn. Due to both not having any reason as to why they shouldn't, they just didn't


In the case of Custodes, I want to set up an analogy. Let's say I go to the grocery store every day and get five apples daily. I pick the best of the apples. But without really mentioning it until later, I've also been grabbing a few of the best oranges. Sure, I said I was only getting apples. But was I incapable of getting the oranges because of this? Is there anything that actually prevented me from doing it?

That analogy is not applicable here. It would be more like if you stated, “every grocery I purchased was an apple from this particular section of the grocery store” then you suddenly pulled out an orange. Obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

Your analogy is pretty applicable to the Rogal Dorn Tank but not the Custodes.

Except it's more like if you only started saying the last part a couple of weeks ago and then suddenly admitted, no, you've actually also been getting oranges.

The quote people keep bringing up about "only sons" is from 8th edition.

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by BloodLock:

That analogy is not applicable here. It would be more like if you stated, “every grocery I purchased was an apple from this particular section of the grocery store” then you suddenly pulled out an orange. Obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

Your analogy is pretty applicable to the Rogal Dorn Tank but not the Custodes.

Except it's more like if you only started saying the last part a couple of weeks ago and then suddenly admitted, no, you've actually also been getting oranges.

The quote people keep bringing up about "only sons" is from 8th edition.

That information has been also been stated in watchers of the golden throne. It is also in the 8th edition codex. It apparently is present in an earlier Horus Heresy novel as well (I can’t confirm this one personally it was quoted in another discussion).

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

The issue being that the reasoning ends up being, "they just didn't use women". Similar to how they "didn't just use this really good tank at all". As we both know, the creation behind custodians is mysterious and unknown beyond the fact it basically requires infants and they're typically taken from nobles. That's as far as it goes, yes?

In every single guard book, there is not s single mention of the Dorn. The underlying issue here appears to be that "it was never explicitly stated to actually be possible", which can apply to both women in the Custodes, and the Rogal Dorn. Due to both not having any reason as to why they shouldn't, they just didn't


In the case of Custodes, I want to set up an analogy. Let's say I go to the grocery store every day and get five apples daily. I pick the best of the apples. But without really mentioning it until later, I've also been grabbing a few of the best oranges. Sure, I said I was only getting apples. But was I incapable of getting the oranges because of this? Is there anything that actually prevented me from doing it?

It’s stated multiple times explicitly that they only used a very specific pool for recruitment for potential Custodes. It is stated that all Custodes start from this pool. Multiple times this is mentioned. That is explicitly stating they don’t use women, just as it’s explicitly stating they dont use grown men.

This is not the case at all with the Rogal Dorn tank. Unless you have some piece of evidence where it explicitly states the Russ is second to only the Bane Blade or something like that or something similar Then it would be the same, however that never occurred. Therefore it isn’t remotely comparable.

Yes, a select pool of humans from typically the nobles of Terra. Where in the refinement process would it be impossible for women? Unlike Space Marines, there's no confirmed gene-seed shenanigans at play. Unlike Space Marines, they're taken and crafted from a quite young age. The only reason there haven't been women is basically because they originally never mentioned them (that, and some guy said no because the models were already out)

Originally posted by BloodLock:

That analogy is not applicable here. It would be more like if you stated, “every grocery I purchased was an apple from this particular section of the grocery store” then you suddenly pulled out a can of oranges. Obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

And of course, the analogy still holds up with your varient. This is a grocery store, I simply went to the next section over (or island, you could say) and acquired a can of oranges (side-note, is that a real thing? I gotta go look it up. If it is I'll need 50)
There would be zero reasoning for my options being as limited beyond merely what I said I grabbed

[BloodLock]

Regardless of your position on this Retcon and your reason behind it. The fact remains that the custodes are explicitly stated to all come from one place. ALL of them, not some of them, but all of them. To quote an earlier 40K novel they are the, “Nobel sons of Terra”.

EDIT: The above information is according to 8th edition and prior codexs and the watchers of the throne series. 9th edition states that the custodes will occasionally recruit during missions. At no point in 9th does it say that female custodes exist, much less can exist. It does however retcon that all of the Custodes to be made past the original 10,000 are of noble birth. It does not retcon the 30+ years of them being exclusively men.

It is fact that they have exclusively been refers to as men for well over 30 years now. That may not be explicit, but “These men” is pretty definitive, unless you believe there is “and women” at the end of it written in invisible ink and pronounced silently in the audio books.

Even in 1987 the original RT states the Custodes are men. Not “men and women”. You can not make an argument for this not being explicit with our changing the English language. An example of this would be when I pull up to a military installation and a sign says “home the of the men of the navy seals, and the men and women of the infantry”. That is pretty obvious that one group is solely one gender, while the other is mixed.

[Narky]

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Regardless of your position on this Retcon and your reason behind it. The fact remains that the custodes are explicitly stated to all come from one place. ALL of them, not some of them, but all of them. To quote an earlier 40K novel they are the, “Nobel sons of Terra”.

It is fact that they have exclusively been refers to as men for well over 30 years now. That may not be explicit, but “These men” is pretty definitive, unless you believe there is “and women” at the end of it written in invisible ink and pronounced silently in the audio books.

Even in 1987 the original RT states the Custodes are men. Not “men and women”. You can not make an argument for this not being explicit with our changing the English language. An example of this would be when I pull up to a military installation and a sign says “home the of the men of the navy seals, and the men and women of the infantry”. That is pretty obvious that one group is solely one gender, while the other is mixed.

No they aren't.

Because everyone who quotes that part of 8th Edition is obfuscating a following paragraph in the same piece that states the Custodes also get recruits from other sources. Which is left vague on just what that meant.

There is no argument for there being no Female Custodes. It's not stated they use Gene seed. It's not stated they cannot be female. It's explicitly stated they are superior to Astartes in every way. All that is stated in the procedure of creating them is that it's "handcrafted" and down to the molecular level, which implies a vastly technologically superior process to the manufactured process of the Astartes, which in contrast are reliant on Gene-seed that corresponds only to male genetics.

Astartes are a throwaway tools while Custodes are masterpieces in comparison.

You guys didn't whine about the total Necron retcon. You didn't b*tch about the 13th Black Crusade retcon, nor the Leagues of Votann, Kharn, the total character assassinations in the Horus Heresy novels.

It's women. Which is actually hilarious tourist behavior.

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by BloodLock:

It’s stated multiple times explicitly that they only used a very specific pool for recruitment for potential Custodes. It is stated that all Custodes start from this pool. Multiple times this is mentioned. That is explicitly stating they don’t use women, just as it’s explicitly stating they dont use grown men.

This is not the case at all with the Rogal Dorn tank. Unless you have some piece of evidence where it explicitly states the Russ is second to only the Bane Blade or something like that or something similar Then it would be the same, however that never occurred. Therefore it isn’t remotely comparable.

Yes, a select pool of humans from typically the nobles of Terra. Where in the refinement process would it be impossible for women? Unlike Space Marines, there's no confirmed gene-seed shenanigans at play. Unlike Space Marines, they're taken and crafted from a quite young age. The only reason there haven't been women is basically because they originally never mentioned them (that, and some guy said no because the models were already out)

Originally posted by BloodLock:

That analogy is not applicable here. It would be more like if you stated, “every grocery I purchased was an apple from this particular section of the grocery store” then you suddenly pulled out a can of oranges. Obviously that doesn’t make any sense.

And of course, the analogy still holds up with your varient. This is a grocery store, I simply went to the next section over (or island, you could say) and acquired a can of oranges (side-note, is that a real thing? I gotta go look it up. If it is I'll need 50)
There would be zero reasoning for my options being as limited beyond merely what I said I grabbed

Not a “select pool of humans from nobility” a select pool of with in the infant sons of noble Terran house holds.

The lore states what it states. This has nothing to do with wether or not a women, thunder warrior, or Astartes can become a Custody through what ever Kawl nonsense GW attempts to come up with.

The point is the Lore explicitly states A, so therefore B did not occur. Because A explicitly states B did not occur.

I don’t understand how this logic is difficult to grasp?

If X = 4 is a true statement then,
X = 5 if a false statement
X does not = 5 is a true statement

[BloodLock]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Regardless of your position on this Retcon and your reason behind it. The fact remains that the custodes are explicitly stated to all come from one place. ALL of them, not some of them, but all of them. To quote an earlier 40K novel they are the, “Nobel sons of Terra”.

It is fact that they have exclusively been refers to as men for well over 30 years now. That may not be explicit, but “These men” is pretty definitive, unless you believe there is “and women” at the end of it written in invisible ink and pronounced silently in the audio books.

Even in 1987 the original RT states the Custodes are men. Not “men and women”. You can not make an argument for this not being explicit with our changing the English language. An example of this would be when I pull up to a military installation and a sign says “home the of the men of the navy seals, and the men and women of the infantry”. That is pretty obvious that one group is solely one gender, while the other is mixed.

No they aren't.

Because everyone who quotes that part of 8th Edition is obfuscating a following paragraph in the same piece that states the Custodes also get recruits from other sources. Which is left vague on just what that meant.

There is no argument for there being no Female Custodes. It's not stated they use Gene seed. It's not stated they cannot be female. It's explicitly stated they are superior to Astartes in every way. All that is stated in the procedure of creating them is that it's "handcrafted" and down to the molecular level, which implies a vastly technologically superior process to the manufactured process of the Astartes, which in contrast are reliant on Gene-seed that corresponds only to male genetics.

Astartes are a throwaway tools while Custodes are masterpieces in comparison.

You guys didn't whine about the total Necron retcon. You didn't b*tch about the 13th Black Crusade retcon, nor the Leagues of Votann, Kharn, the total character assassinations in the Horus Heresy novels.

It's women. Which is actually hilarious tourist behavior.

For the record I was annoyed with all of those excluding the Leagues of Votann.

I just reread my 8th edition pts 14-16 and found no such paragraph. Where is it exactly? Because personally I find it hard to believe I missed that.

[Narky]

Originally posted by BloodLock:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

No they aren't.

Because everyone who quotes that part of 8th Edition is obfuscating a following paragraph in the same piece that states the Custodes also get recruits from other sources. Which is left vague on just what that meant.

There is no argument for there being no Female Custodes. It's not stated they use Gene seed. It's not stated they cannot be female. It's explicitly stated they are superior to Astartes in every way. All that is stated in the procedure of creating them is that it's "handcrafted" and down to the molecular level, which implies a vastly technologically superior process to the manufactured process of the Astartes, which in contrast are reliant on Gene-seed that corresponds only to male genetics.

Astartes are a throwaway tools while Custodes are masterpieces in comparison.

You guys didn't whine about the total Necron retcon. You didn't b*tch about the 13th Black Crusade retcon, nor the Leagues of Votann, Kharn, the total character assassinations in the Horus Heresy novels.

It's women. Which is actually hilarious tourist behavior.

For the record I was annoyed with all of those excluding the Leagues of Votann.

I just reread my 8th edition pts 14-16 and found no such paragraph. Where is it exactly? Because personally I find it hard to believe I missed that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLS_btyXgAA25a8?format=jpg&name=medium

"What is clear is that none besides the Custode themselves truly know what criteria they require."

No where does it state in the edition that you MUST be male to even be eligible for Custodian genetic engineering (Ala Space Marines, which are far less human than Custodes are. Custodes are humans pushed to the absolute peak of their evolutionary potential, every cell in their body is perfected, with the next step being The Emperor).

This doubles as a test of the average Warhammer 'fans' reading comprehension, by the way.