A game about killing aliens that transform themselves....

[Mindswalk]

The game is literally about killing aliens that transform and adapt their bodies to fight enemies..... Its the most anti-woke game out there.... i love the drama.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Adeptus Astartes are not trans in the same way 21st century trans are.

Both are still Human, one has extra organs and conditioning for combat prowess and the other has been groomed.

Space Marines aren't human, n' you got a bit of projection goin there

[Reuben]

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Adeptus Astartes are not trans in the same way 21st century trans are.

Both are still Human, one has extra organs and conditioning for combat prowess and the other has been groomed.

Space Marines aren't human, n' you got a bit of projection goin there

K buddy, let's just throw Biology out the window then shall we?

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Space Marines aren't human, n' you got a bit of projection goin there

K buddy, let's just throw Biology out the window then shall we?

Biology is why Space Marines can't be considered human. Would you consider an entity that has more organs than a human, improved healing, the ability to spit acid, ability to read minds by eating them, and so much more as human?

[Reuben]

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Postat inițial de Reuben:

K buddy, let's just throw Biology out the window then shall we?

Biology is why Space Marines can't be considered human. Would you consider an entity that has more organs than a human, improved healing, the ability to spit acid, ability to read minds by eating them, and so much more as human?

Yes.

They're genetically Human, it doesn't matter what additions have been made, that would just make them ♥♥♥♥ Sapien Superior, they were also born Human too.

Your argument basically says 21st century trans people are also not Human, which also isn't true, they're victims.

[Moonlight Knight]

calling a Space Marine "Sapien Superior" would be heresy in the Imperium of Man. One of the things that the Emperor explicitly did not want was transhuman supersoldiers deciding the future of the Imperium. He did not consider them human enough to do the important humaning things.

This argument also has nothing to do with modern trans people. If the full extent of what happened to Space Marines was "they surgically changed their bodies" then they wouldn't be Space Marines.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Biology is why Space Marines can't be considered human. Would you consider an entity that has more organs than a human, improved healing, the ability to spit acid, ability to read minds by eating them, and so much more as human?

Yes.

They're genetically Human, it doesn't matter what additions have been made, that would just make them ♥♥♥♥ Sapien Superior, they were also born Human too.

Your argument basically says 21st century trans people are also not Human, which also isn't true, they're victims.

Are 21st trans people able to do anything considered super human? Do they have the ability to spit acid. Shrug off limb loss. Eat a brain to gain knowledge. Super speed. Super strength?
Any of that?

No? Then false equivalence shawty. Marines may have started as human, but they're def not human once they became a marine

[Reuben]

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Yes.

They're genetically Human, it doesn't matter what additions have been made, that would just make them ♥♥♥♥ Sapien Superior, they were also born Human too.

Your argument basically says 21st century trans people are also not Human, which also isn't true, they're victims.

Are 21st trans people able to do anything considered super human? Do they have the ability to spit acid. Shrug off limb loss. Eat a brain to gain knowledge. Super speed. Super strength?
Any of that?

No? Then false equivalence shawty. Marines may have started as human, but they're def not human once they became a marine

You're ignoring the obvious like a bad actor would. Both groups deal with extensive body modification, The DNA is still inherently Human.

Postat inițial de Moonlight Knight:

calling a Space Marine "Sapien Superior" would be heresy in the Imperium of Man. One of the things that the Emperor explicitly did not want was transhuman supersoldiers deciding the future of the Imperium. He did not consider them human enough to do the important humaning things.

They were designed for war like Thunder Warriors, they're still Human though even if non-enhanced Humans were intended to rule (*cough* Emperor and Guilliman *cough*). They were not considered disposable like Thunder Warriors however, the very first few books in The Horus Heresy series makes it very clear that Space Marines were well educated and would start uplifting the various lost colonies after The Great Crusade.

[Thrasymachus]

That's some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Are 21st trans people able to do anything considered super human? Do they have the ability to spit acid. Shrug off limb loss. Eat a brain to gain knowledge. Super speed. Super strength?
Any of that?

No? Then false equivalence shawty. Marines may have started as human, but they're def not human once they became a marine

You're ignoring the obvious like a bad actor would, both groups deal with extensive body modification, The DNA is still inherently Human.

Postat inițial de Moonlight Knight:

calling a Space Marine "Sapien Superior" would be heresy in the Imperium of Man. One of the things that the Emperor explicitly did not want was transhuman supersoldiers deciding the future of the Imperium. He did not consider them human enough to do the important humaning things.

They were designed for war like Thunder Warriors, they're still Human though even if non-enhanced Humans were intended to rule (*cough* Emperor and Guilliman *cough*). They were not considered disposable like Thunder Warriors however, the very first few books in The Horus Heresy makes it very clear that Space Marines were well educated and would start uplifting the various lost colonies after The Great Crusade.

21st century trans people aren't modified to the DNA level. You can play it up as much as you like, disagree all you like
But it's blatantly obvious. Space Marines are more than human, and can't be considered as such

[Reuben]

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Postat inițial de Reuben:

You're ignoring the obvious like a bad actor would, both groups deal with extensive body modification, The DNA is still inherently Human.


They were designed for war like Thunder Warriors, they're still Human though even if non-enhanced Humans were intended to rule (*cough* Emperor and Guilliman *cough*). They were not considered disposable like Thunder Warriors however, the very first few books in The Horus Heresy makes it very clear that Space Marines were well educated and would start uplifting the various lost colonies after The Great Crusade.

21st century trans people aren't modified to the DNA level. You can play it up as much as you like, disagree all you like
But it's blatantly obvious. Space Marines are more than human, and can't be considered as such

You've gone from "not Human" to "more than Human", that's progress, however nothing is said about Space Marines being genetically engineered beyond the organs that are grafted onto adolescents that account for their enhancements as they enter the final stages of puberty.

You could argue that Custodes are genetically engineered purpose-built demigods that are trans-Human, but even they are Human (the same way someone with gigantism or dwarfism is or if CRISPR became a popular method to make designer babies).

Daemon Princes who were once Human or Primarchs aren't technically full daemons either.

[Eidrog]

Saying 'Space Marines are human' is a little like saying 'Vampires are human."

I mean, you're kinda right, kinda wrong.

Sure, they start out as human, but the gene-seed they receive is part of a process that transforms them into a towering, acid-spitting brain-eating monstrosity. Is that still a human? Space Marines tend to look down at regular humans and regular humans consider Space Marines to be angels or demi-gods. Regular humans in the 40k setting certainly don't think of Space Marines as 'just humans.' But really it comes to semantics and where you think the line should be drawn I suppose.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Reuben:

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

21st century trans people aren't modified to the DNA level. You can play it up as much as you like, disagree all you like
But it's blatantly obvious. Space Marines are more than human, and can't be considered as such

You've gone from "not Human" to "more than Human", that's progress, however nothing is said about Space Marines being genetically engineered beyond the organs that are grafted onto adolescents that account for their enhancements as they enter the final stages of puberty.

You could argue that Custodes are genetically engineered purpose-built demigods that are trans-Human, but even they are Human (the same way someone with gigantism or dwarfism is or if CRISPR became a popular method to make designer babies).

Yes, not human. More than human. It's the same thing. They have additional organs, higher muscle mass than can be considered natural (or even unnatural with drugs), ability to spit acid. The ability to read minds by eating them

Custodes also, are not human. They're even further away from being a human than a Space Marine is.


I feel an apt anology would be chimps. Would you consider a chimp to be human? They're fairly close to our evolutionary chain. Or would you consider mice to be human? Almost all their genes share the same functions as with humans

[The_Dipl0mat]

Postat inițial de Eidrog:

Saying 'Space Marines are human' is a little like saying 'Vampires are human."

I mean, you're kinda right, kinda wrong.

Sure, they start out as human, but the gene-seed they receive is part of a process that transforms them into a towering, acid-spitting brain-eating monstrosity. Is that still a human? Space Marines tend to look down at regular humans and regular humans consider Space Marines to be angels or demi-gods. Regular humans in the 40k setting certainly don't think of Space Marines as 'just humans.' But really it comes to semantics and where you think the line should be drawn I suppose.

Yeah that is fair enough. I personally consider them to not be human based upon their modifications, alongside their lack of well. "Humanity" in a moral sense

[Reuben]

Postat inițial de Eidrog:

Saying 'Space Marines are human' is a little like saying 'Vampires are human."

I mean, you're kinda right, kinda wrong.

Sure, they start out as human, but the gene-seed they receive is part of a process that transforms them into a towering, acid-spitting brain-eating monstrosity. Is that still a human? Space Marines tend to look down at regular humans and regular humans consider Space Marines to be angels or demi-gods. Regular humans in the 40k setting certainly don't think of Space Marines as 'just humans.' But really it comes to semantics and where you think the line should be drawn I suppose.

Postat inițial de The_Dipl0mat:

Postat inițial de Reuben:

You've gone from "not Human" to "more than Human", that's progress, however nothing is said about Space Marines being genetically engineered beyond the organs that are grafted onto adolescents that account for their enhancements as they enter the final stages of puberty.

You could argue that Custodes are genetically engineered purpose-built demigods that are trans-Human, but even they are Human (the same way someone with gigantism or dwarfism is or if CRISPR became a popular method to make designer babies).

Yes, not human. More than human. It's the same thing. They have additional organs, higher muscle mass than can be considered natural (or even unnatural with drugs), ability to spit acid. The ability to read minds by eating them

Custodes also, are not human. They're even further away from being a human than a Space Marine is.


I feel an apt anology would be chimps. Would you consider a chimp to be human? They're fairly close to our evolutionary chain. Or would you consider mice to be human? Almost all their genes share the same functions as with humans

To employ non-humans in the Imperium would be heresy.

Earlier in this thread you were arguing that we're all the same species despite our vast physical differences and now you're telling me that you're no longer considered Human because of physical differences. Are Psykers now not Human too (trick question)?

[Eidrog]

Psykers (for humanity) are mutant humans as far as the lore is concerned. .