Black Ultramarines break established lore

[Tibi]

Here's why:
-Space Marines get their DNA rewritten at a young age. This has to be done because the extra organs they’re implanted with carry the DNA of their Primarch. So in order to prevent organ rejection, the aspirant’s entire DNA has to be rewritten to match their Primarch’s. This causes most marines to develop facial, and physical features similar to their gene father. And since their Primarch Girlyman was a blond white dude, most Ultramarines should look like a blonde white dude.
-Space Marine biology automatically changes their skin color to adapt to their environment. One of the organs they’re implanted with can quickly change the melanin content of their skin. So if they’re in an environment where the sun doesn’t shine harshly, the melanin content is removed from their skin to increase their vitamin D production. But if they’re in a radiation dense environment, their skin is pumped full of melanin to give them some protection. So while it IS possible for an Ultramarine to be black in a sunny environment, it does break the lore when they stand next to a battle brother who remained white.

But yeah… I guess diversity points are more important than decades of lore. At least there are no female marines YET… The Custodes sacrificed themselves to protect us from those chaos spawns. May we never forget their sacrifice.

[VengefulDevil]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Here's why:

You're wrong, silence. L + no maidens = get ratio'd

[Tibi]

Originally posted by Plastikloser:

There are many worlds in the segmentum solar that ulrat marines pull from. It represents all of human ethnicities as most worlds do, given it has different climates and humans adapt accordingly. So you will see ALL types of humans as space marines. Which is true of many chapters, there are also dark skinned space wolves from the warmer island parts of Fenris (in the codex)

In addition, only certain primarchs passed on specific generic traits like appearance to their chapter. Sanguinus passed on his good looks (though not exact copy), Corax passes on pale skin, Vulcan passes on dark skin. It doesnt mean They change ethnicity, thats not how genetics work even in fiction.

Im doing this to help show others, not the clown.

Again, for the 100th time, if your chapter has a functioning Melanochrome organ, then it doesn't matter what genes you have. Your skin color will be the same as your battle brothers'

[zmanbuilder]

I'm pretty sure that the ultramarines are recruiting off of more worlds than just ultramar now, and with how many worlds they own, them getting a bit diverse would not be impossible.

[Tibi]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

I'm pretty sure that the ultramarines are recruiting off of more worlds than just ultramar now, and with how many worlds they own, them getting a bit diverse would not be impossible.

Melanochrome, for the 101st time...

[Thrasymachus]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by Thrasymachus:

From The Solar War:

GW writers being GW writers, don't communicate with each other. ♥♥♥♥ like this does happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have any standard of canon, and everything is possible.

GW literally has a position that everything is canon, so claiming one thing is canon and the other is not is not really supported by the owner of the IP.

There are many other examples that you are choosing to ignore. Again, you are choosing to be ignorant and want to show it off to everyone here.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

I'm pretty sure that the ultramarines are recruiting off of more worlds than just ultramar now, and with how many worlds they own, them getting a bit diverse would not be impossible.

Melanochrome, for the 101st time...

The first gene sons sure, but the primarchs have been dead or missing for what? one thousand years? With lots of diverse gene seed mutations bringing in the successor chapters.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

I'm pretty sure that the ultramarines are recruiting off of more worlds than just ultramar now, and with how many worlds they own, them getting a bit diverse would not be impossible.

Melanochrome, for the 101st time...

The melanochrome darkens skin color in reaction to extreme radiation, and then turns off and goes back to normal, in all cases except the Raven Guard and the Salamanders. It has no bearing on Ultramarine skin color outside of the circumstances it kicks in.

[Tibi]

Originally posted by Thrasymachus:

Originally posted by Tibi:

GW writers being GW writers, don't communicate with each other. ♥♥♥♥ like this does happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have any standard of canon, and everything is possible.

GW literally has a position that everything is canon, so claiming one thing is canon and the other is not is not really supported by the owner of the IP.

There are many other examples that you are choosing to ignore. Again, you are choosing to be ignorant and want to show it off to everyone here.

No-one sane unironically believes that. If everything is canon, then would you believe it if tomorrow GW said Big E was a goose all along?

[Tibi]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Originally posted by Tibi:

Melanochrome, for the 101st time...

The first gene sons sure, but the primarchs have been dead or missing for what? one thousand years? With lots of diverse gene seed mutations bringing in the successor chapters.

Ok, that's the first good argument in favor of black Ultramarines I've heard so far.

[Eidrog]

Tibi, that is a lot of words to demonstrate you don't understand how the lore works. : /

Yes, implanting gene-seed makes the body more like the chapter's primarch. That is, it get's monstrously strong and makes them receptive to the cocktail of implants and organs they're about to receive. It turns them into an acid-spitting, brain eating monstrosity.

It does not make them visually identical to their primarch.

Cato Sicarius doesn't have blond hair like Roboute Guilliman. And you don't have to look very hard to find examples of marines with different skin colors. This has existed in the game for at least over 14 years. (Jonah Oriion is the first example I can think of, but there's probably earlier examples)

[Thrasymachus]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by Thrasymachus:

There is no fallacy here, you are citing established lore as your standard, but are then dismissing examples that show where you are ignorant of the lore and how it has evolved.

The authority fallacy refers to stating something is true because someone in authority has said so. Where have I done that? I gave you an example that challenges your premise. If you don't like that then maybe your premise sucks.

You literally said I don't know anything because I don't know something very specific about one chapter. You tried to establish that you're a better fan than me because of this, therefore what you say is true, and what I say is fals. That is arguing from authortity.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, lol.

You are creating a strawman argument here sweetheart, and very little of what you wrote I said.

Your premise is that having a black space marine more specifically an Ultramarine is not supported by the lore. To prove your point you are trying to cherry pick pieces that support your premise. I am calling out that there are many other examples that contradict your premise. My point about the Dark Angles is to do a reductio ad absubum and show that your adherence to one point in the lore is going to provide logical inconsistencies, since there are many instances where GW has retconned elements but no one cares. If you are logically consistent, then you should have a problem with that, since it is a lore change.

No where did I say that I know more than you and that makes my point correct. If you are going to claim fallacies then you know what they are.

It would be a fallacy to say that perhaps you should google my screen name, and perhaps I know a bit about rhetoric and logic, but that would a ♥♥♥♥ move.

[Thrasymachus]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by Thrasymachus:

GW literally has a position that everything is canon, so claiming one thing is canon and the other is not is not really supported by the owner of the IP.

There are many other examples that you are choosing to ignore. Again, you are choosing to be ignorant and want to show it off to everyone here.

No-one sane unironically believes that. If everything is canon, then would you believe it if tomorrow GW said Big E was a goose all along?

That literally comes from Black Library authors. GW retcons things all the time, and things have evolved over time. You have been presented with numerous examples of black or olive skinned Space Marines from over 10 years ago, yet you are dismissing them even though they are coming from the IP. I would say that your position is not very sane.

[zastcat]

Originally posted by Tibi:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

I'm pretty sure that the ultramarines are recruiting off of more worlds than just ultramar now, and with how many worlds they own, them getting a bit diverse would not be impossible.

Melanochrome, for the 101st time...

no, just no, I'm frankly sick of seeing this weak excuse for an argument or the "well they genetically start to look like their primarchs" nonsense because even in the sources they come up in they don't actually say what the people talking about them want them to say

the melanochromic organ: it reacts to high levels of radiation (including intense enough sunlight) that would be dangerous by adjusting the space marine's skin to compensate, outside of specific chapters like the salamanders or ravenguard who are explicitly called out as having a geneseed mutation with that organ it does not, as standard use, permanently change skin color or even have any statement of altering them without some outside input

it would not magically make everybody who joins the ultramarines white, nothing in the lore actually supports the idea that it would, that is just a racist view masquerading as a belief based in lore because "it sounds like it could"

genetic resemblance from geneseed: this isn't really a universal thing, at all, heck the main thing that people point to for this is the luna wolves/sons of horus from the horus heresy book series and it's specifically mentioned there that not every space marine in the legion had it and that horus aximand was singled out as having an unusually high resemblance to horus

there is no part of the space marine augmentation process where every single space marine gets some "oh, their primarch is white, guess they can't have these skin tones anymore" treatment, the only cases where an en masse alteration of that kind exist are specifically where it's a geneseed flaw from that chapter/legion

please, please do not use 40k lore as some flimsy shield for this nonsense, it does not support the view you seem to have and every time somebody makes this argument and throws around the words "consistency" or "lore accuracy" all it does is make people who would might have joined the hobby see it as a breeding ground for racist nonsense when really what they're looking at is shameless misinformation

[VengefulDevil]

*inhales deeply through my nose* Smells like racism

[Quantum]

Originally posted by Thrasymachus:

Originally posted by Tibi:

You literally said I don't know anything because I don't know somethign very specific about one chapter. You tried to establish that you're a better fan than me because of this, therefore what you say is true, and what I say is fals. That is arguing from authortity.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, lol.

You are creating a strawman argument here sweetheart, and very little of what you write I said.

Your premise is that having a black space marine more specifically an Ultramarine is not supported by the lore. To prove your point you are trying to cherry pick pieces that support your premise. I am calling out that there are many other examples that contradict your premise. My point about the Dark Angles is to do a reductio ad absubum and show that your adherance to one point in the lore is going to provide logical inconsistencies, since there are many instances where GW has retconned elements but no one cares. If you are logically consistent, then you should have a problem with that, since it is a lore change.

No where did I say that I know more than you and that makes my point correct. If you are going to claim fallacies then you know what they are.

It would be a fallacy to say that perhaps you should google my screen name, and perhaps I know a bit about rhetoric and logic, but that would a ♥♥♥♥ move.

oh shut up you squealing nerd lmao. Black Ultramarines break the lore and shouldn't be in the game, its obvious why they are in the game though(DEI points and ESG score). Ultramarines are literally based off of the Romans, and I didn't see or read a lot of black centurions there bud.