Necrons when?

[Davesoft]

Cmooon, do it.

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by Nekros:

Originally posted by Davesoft:

Cmooon, do it.

In this game? Never. In space marine 3 assuming it's going to be made? Still not likely, as Necrons in the lore are stupid OP and can merc a space marine without trying because their standard weapon is the annihilator beam. Their tech is so advanced that the imperium simply can't comprehend it. It's like showing a caveman a computer and expecting him to understand or how he might have a spear but you have a predator missile. The only Necrons space marines have managed to kill is rank and file mindless fodder. Unless they accept help from the Eldari who can actually effectively fight Necrons, they are cooked.

Have you ever played table top ?

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Originally posted by Nekros:

In this game? Never. In space marine 3 assuming it's going to be made? Still not likely, as Necrons in the lore are stupid OP and can merc a space marine without trying because their standard weapon is the annihilator beam. Their tech is so advanced that the imperium simply can't comprehend it. It's like showing a caveman a computer and expecting him to understand or how he might have a spear but you have a predator missile. The only Necrons space marines have managed to kill is rank and file mindless fodder. Unless they accept help from the Eldari who can actually effectively fight Necrons, they are cooked.

Have you ever played table top ?

Have you seen the 9th Edition Cinematic Trailer? Or Pariah Nexus?

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Have you ever played table top ?

Have you seen the 9th Edition Cinematic Trailer? Or Pariah Nexus?

No, but I am sure that Necrons are still beatable by SM\CSM in table top. Otherwise this whole game would stop making sense. Armies have to be balanced in order to maintain competitiveness.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Have you seen the 9th Edition Cinematic Trailer? Or Pariah Nexus?

No, but I am sure that Necrons are still beatable by SM\CSM in table top. Otherwise this whole game would stop making sense. Armies have to be balanced in order to maintain competitiveness.

They are beatable, yes. But they still one-shot. The issue with tabletop, as been long lamented by most xenos players and even Imperium (Eldar, Tau, Necron, Custodes) is they have to somewhat forgo the lore for an even playing field. So you can get rough estimates depending on stats. So if something has always been stronger than another through several editions, it's likely stronger in lore.

One of the other things that tabletop does is morale. If your morale breaks, squad members flee which is fine for regular factions. But how does morale break for Necrons? Or Tyranids? Answer is it just does. Plus tbh if things actually made sense, Necrons or Tyranids would have won by now

I'd highly recommend watching the animations, they show the power level pretty well. Hell, even the Dawn of War: Dark Crusade intro cinematic is pretty good with it. Astartes get shredded by Necrons, but they manage to win with firepower and dodging blasts

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

No, but I am sure that Necrons are still beatable by SM\CSM in table top. Otherwise this whole game would stop making sense. Armies have to be balanced in order to maintain competitiveness.

They are beatable, yes. But they still one-shot. The issue with tabletop, as been long lamented by most xenos players and even Imperium (Eldar, Tau, Necron, Custodes) is they have to somewhat forgo the lore for an even playing field. So you can get rough estimates depending on stats. So if something has always been stronger than another through several editions, it's likely stronger in lore.

One of the other things that tabletop does is morale. If your morale breaks, squad members flee which is fine for regular factions. But how does morale break for Necrons? Or Tyranids? Answer is it just does. Plus tbh if things actually made sense, Necrons or Tyranids would have won by now

I'd highly recommend watching the animations, they show the power level pretty well. Hell, even the Dawn of War: Dark Crusade intro cinematic is pretty good with it. Astartes get shredded by Necrons, but they manage to win with firepower and dodging blasts

I played all DoW 1 add ons along with the biggest and most important mods.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

They are beatable, yes. But they still one-shot. The issue with tabletop, as been long lamented by most xenos players and even Imperium (Eldar, Tau, Necron, Custodes) is they have to somewhat forgo the lore for an even playing field. So you can get rough estimates depending on stats. So if something has always been stronger than another through several editions, it's likely stronger in lore.

One of the other things that tabletop does is morale. If your morale breaks, squad members flee which is fine for regular factions. But how does morale break for Necrons? Or Tyranids? Answer is it just does. Plus tbh if things actually made sense, Necrons or Tyranids would have won by now

I'd highly recommend watching the animations, they show the power level pretty well. Hell, even the Dawn of War: Dark Crusade intro cinematic is pretty good with it. Astartes get shredded by Necrons, but they manage to win with firepower and dodging blasts

I played all DoW add ons along with the biggest and most important mods.

That's nice? I'm pretty sure most 40k fans who play on PC have. Either way, the Dark Crusade cinematic is pretty good for showing Necrons off in terms of power. Gameplay, not as much. But that's because it'd be unfun to have a faction that literally one shots so it's one of those balances of gameplay>lore

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

I played all DoW add ons along with the biggest and most important mods.

That's nice? I'm pretty sure most 40k fans who play on PC have. Either way, the Dark Crusade cinematic is pretty good for showing Necrons off in terms of power. Gameplay, not as much. But that's because it'd be unfun to have a faction that literally one shots so it's one of those balances of gameplay>lore

Well, multi melta can one shot too.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

That's nice? I'm pretty sure most 40k fans who play on PC have. Either way, the Dark Crusade cinematic is pretty good for showing Necrons off in terms of power. Gameplay, not as much. But that's because it'd be unfun to have a faction that literally one shots so it's one of those balances of gameplay>lore

Well, multi melta can one shot too.

Yeah, but that's a specialty weapon. Not a "This is the bare minimum weapon our basic troops use"

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Well, multi melta can one shot too.

Yeah, but that's a specialty weapon. Not a "This is the bare minimum weapon our basic troops use"

I know but you can structure your SM\CSM army list in such a way that you will have more special\heavy weapons than bolters if you want to.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Yeah, but that's a specialty weapon. Not a "This is the bare minimum weapon our basic troops use"

I know but you can structure your SM\CSM army list in such a way that you will have more special\heavy weapons than bolters if you want to.

...Yeah? I'm not quite sure what your point is here lmao. Lorewise, Necrons can one shot any Primaris that doesn't either have a Halo of some sort, a shield, or plot armor. And with plot armor they typically lose a limb. As such, they're less likely to be a contender considering their overall power level.

In a game like Space Marine, the closest we'd get is probably hordes of "zombies" infested with mind scarabs, with majoris being warriors or immortals, then higher up ones being a skorphek destroyer or wraiths. And at that point with the primary unit being the "zombies", it'd just be easier to do Nurgle

[Nekros]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

I played all DoW add ons along with the biggest and most important mods.

That's nice? I'm pretty sure most 40k fans who play on PC have. Either way, the Dark Crusade cinematic is pretty good for showing Necrons off in terms of power. Gameplay, not as much. But that's because it'd be unfun to have a faction that literally one shots so it's one of those balances of gameplay>lore

Yeah there will always be a discrepancy between lore and tabletop but I think it was more lore accurate in DOW as you had to send large waves of your army into the grinder to wear the Necrons down. Definition of a Pyrrhic victory where sure you technically won but it comes at a great cost as dozens to hundreds of space marine corpses litter the field. It wouldn't work out so well in a more single person perspective where we actually have to believe that Titus would survive an entire Necron campaign without taking a single annihilator shot. At that point is where plot armor comes in, he won't die because he has a face and name.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by Nekros:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

That's nice? I'm pretty sure most 40k fans who play on PC have. Either way, the Dark Crusade cinematic is pretty good for showing Necrons off in terms of power. Gameplay, not as much. But that's because it'd be unfun to have a faction that literally one shots so it's one of those balances of gameplay>lore

Yeah there will always be a discrepancy between lore and tabletop but I think it was more lore accurate in DOW as you had to send large waves of your army into the grinder to wear the Necrons down. Definition of a Pyrrhic victory where sure you technically won but it comes at a great cost as dozens to hundreds of space marine corpses litter the field. It wouldn't work out so well in a more single person perspective where we actually have to believe that Titus would survive an entire Necron campaign without taking a single annihilator shot. At that point is where plot armor comes in, he won't die because he has a face and name.

Yeah, DOW def had it closest but it could only really thrive in an RTS setting like that. Mechanicus also does it well if I remember right (haven't played in ages), but I remember my ass getting handed to me when they'd land a hit. They're just not all that viable for games like this, which is a shame. I do feel like a potential game where it'd work is Custodes vs Necrons maybe?

[wojciechk50]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by wojciechk50:

I know but you can structure your SM\CSM army list in such a way that you will have more special\heavy weapons than bolters if you want to.

...Yeah? I'm not quite sure what your point is here lmao. Lorewise, Necrons can one shot any Primaris that doesn't either have a Halo of some sort, a shield, or plot armor. And with plot armor they typically lose a limb. As such, they're less likely to be a contender considering their overall power level.

In a game like Space Marine, the closest we'd get is probably hordes of "zombies" infested with mind scarabs, with majoris being warriors or immortals, then higher up ones being a skorphek destroyer or wraiths. And at that point with the primary unit being the "zombies", it'd just be easier to do Nurgle

My point is the same all the time - Necrons can be beaten by SM\CSM.

[Nekros]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by Nekros:

Yeah there will always be a discrepancy between lore and tabletop but I think it was more lore accurate in DOW as you had to send large waves of your army into the grinder to wear the Necrons down. Definition of a Pyrrhic victory where sure you technically won but it comes at a great cost as dozens to hundreds of space marine corpses litter the field. It wouldn't work out so well in a more single person perspective where we actually have to believe that Titus would survive an entire Necron campaign without taking a single annihilator shot. At that point is where plot armor comes in, he won't die because he has a face and name.

Yeah, DOW def had it closest but it could only really thrive in an RTS setting like that. Mechanicus also does it well if I remember right (haven't played in ages), but I remember my ass getting handed to me when they'd land a hit. They're just not all that viable for games like this, which is a shame. I do feel like a potential game where it'd work is Custodes vs Necrons maybe?

Custodes are stronger for sure but I mean an annihilator beam is an annihilator beam, it doesn't much matter what it hits as it deconstructs things at the molecular level. All it has to do is land a single hit.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by Nekros:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Yeah, DOW def had it closest but it could only really thrive in an RTS setting like that. Mechanicus also does it well if I remember right (haven't played in ages), but I remember my ass getting handed to me when they'd land a hit. They're just not all that viable for games like this, which is a shame. I do feel like a potential game where it'd work is Custodes vs Necrons maybe?

Custodes are stronger for sure but I mean an annihilator beam is an annihilator beam, it doesn't much matter what it hits as it deconstructs things at the molecular level. All it has to do is land a single hit.

Throw in some ancient tech like a DaoT shield or something and should be fine. Turn it into something where a Custodian runs around like a Warframe