Warhammer 40k IMPERIUM is NO CAUTIONARY TALE

[BlissDefiler]

There are many GREAT things about the Imperium, and despite what some people may claim, even some who have allegedly had a hand in its lore, the Imperium in 40k is no cautionary tale. Things that plague the modern societies, such as sexism, racism, and homophobia, are non-issues in the Imperium. Technological advancement is at the forefront. Rather than individualistic hedonism *coughs and looks at Aeldari xenos scum* the Imperium strives towards a greater good, with its eye on the WHOLE. Sure, maybe life sucks for some individuals, but if its all they know and their ancestors have known for so long, it's probably not all that bad. The MILITARISM and DYNAMISM of the Imperium literally oozes from its being, and it faces down any xenos scum who challenge it, no matter who or what they are. Honor, courage, and devotion are rewarded, and the society follows a strict hierarchy.

So... dare I say it...

The Imperium is no cautionary tale of what to avoid, but largely a tale of something to STRIVE FOR.

[Schalimah]

Ah, isn't propaganda nice.
Even in a fantasy world it works.
Life sure has improved since papa smurf is back ... for the upper 1%, that is.
The rest is still toiling away for 12 - 16 hours a day in the next manufactorum or mine, depending on how close the war is.
And they share their lousy 16 sqm hab unit with 3 other workers or live in shared barracks.
Roving gangs of murderers spilling up from the underhive are a daily occurence until the arbites raid the place once a year.
You better not be anywhere near when they come.
They don't distinguish between criminals and civilians.
Anyone down there is guilty.
Lucky if you happen to live on an aggri world.
At least the air is not trying to kill you.
And Rowboat Girlyman sure would like to change things for the better, but he can't be to radical in his changes, lest he draw the ire of the Inquisition.
He has his hands full anyway, preventing the imperium from becoming bug food.

[EM-10]

Just a reminder that in the Marneus Calgar Comic it's revealed that the average life-expectancy in Ultramar was the mid-30s, which was considered above average and even good for humans in the Imperium.

[Philokèkos]

Originally posted by Sothis:

You people really need to get out more.

There were a lot of "actually cool things" about the Third Reich, but none of that in any way shape or form lessens the atrocities committed or the pure evil ideology behind everything, nor would it have been worth to live it out.

Also, yeah, let's strive for a world where some corpse emperor is actually God, we are halfways there already anyway.

I'm sure it will be for the betterment of humanity when the right wing Christians and actual warmongers get together and form a world government, or maybe Islam can give it a shot, can't wait, it's gonna be so full of honor and courage! /s

You're completely out of topic. It's not about glorifying the Imperium, it's about recognising that there is something tremendously inspiring about fighting back the darkness even when it means embracing a grim future. It's all about that "blood, toil, tears and sweat" spirit. 40k was made by British people and it ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shows, believe me.

[Hippo]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Philokèkos:

I kind of agree, actually. This whole "40k is the worst possible future for humanity" argument is a very recent narrative

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." -Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, 1987, and EVERY 40k RULEBOOK AND NOVEL SINCE

The Imperium has always been written as a nightmare dystopia, for as long as the setting has existed.

Exactly this. People are very accustomed to making their own realities with theory even in cases like this, where it's been such for decades. It was NEVER meant to be something celebrated.

[Magni]

Originally posted by Schalimah:

And Rowboat Girlyman sure would like to change things for the better, but he can't be to radical in his changes, lest he draw the ire of the Inquisition.

Less the Inquisition and more that like 10k years worth of bureaucratic inertia and entrenched political power structures in a highly decentralised edifice is something even a literal demigod just plain can't reform within a couple decades, or centuries.

[donder172]

Originally posted by EM-10:

Just a reminder that in the Marneus Calgar Comic it's revealed that the average life-expectancy in Ultramar was the mid-30s, which was considered above average and even good for humans in the Imperium.

Mid-30s? That's as bad as the life expectency during the Early Middle Ages.

[Philokèkos]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Philokèkos:

I kind of agree, actually. This whole "40k is the worst possible future for humanity" argument is a very recent narrative

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." -Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, 1987 (aka the book that started it all), and EVERY 40k RULEBOOK AND NOVEL SINCE

The Imperium has always been written as a nightmare dystopia, for as long as the setting has existed.

You can't use a single piece of a rulebook that's not even telling the whole story to refute arguments about the whole setting, especially when I wasn't making an argument about what 40k is but rather about what it means to us.

I never said 40k was not dystopian, I said it was inspirational, and I was also referring to a recent statement from GW that read (quoting from memory) "we don't think the real world should look like 40k", which is exactly the kind of bs one feels compelled to say when under assault by hordes of woke commissars.

The Imperium is what it is because there is no other option. Chaos would devour humanity if the Imperium ceased to be. That's what's inspirational about it : the readiness to sacrifice everything for the right to continued existence, even when it means being so overcome with fear that your society looks like hell. I don't want to live in the 40k universe and I do not hope such a society ever comes to exist, but I sure do hope my fellow humans and myself will be ready to display the same amounts of courage and stern resolve if our existence were to be threatened like it's the case in 40k. That's what the playerbase all too often neglects about 40k's hidden positivity.

[Fuchssprung]

"Techonogial development is at the forefront"
Adeptus Mechanicus 1: "There is no inovation nessecary all templates have already been created they only need to be found..."
Adepts Mechanicus 2: "If you want to "invent" you can simply take two patterns and combine their best features"
Adepts mechanicus 3: "Ah but dont forget during the mergin of patterns the rites of combination need to be recided by atleast 2 archmaguses"
Adeptus mechanicus 4: "Only 2? Archmagus Magius Doctrin claims no less than 5 are required for the mergin to be successfull!"
Adeptus Mechanicus 5: "Have you all lost your way? The omnissaias rights of invention clearly state that innovation is unnessecary, for he provides us with everything we need already!"

[EM-10]

Originally posted by Philokèkos:

The Imperium is what it is because there is no other option. Chaos would devour humanity if the Imperium ceased to be. That's what's inspirational about it : the readiness to sacrifice everything for the right to continued existence, even when it means being so overcome with fear that your society looks like hell. I don't want to live in the 40k universe and I do not hope such a society ever comes to exist, but I sure do hope my fellow humans and myself will be ready to display the same amounts of courage and stern resolve if our existence were to be threatened like it's the case in 40k. That's what the playerbase all too often neglects about 40k's hidden positivity.

The Imperium is what it is because corrupt populist despotic figures channeled up religious fervor and perverted society toward their own goals. Saying the Imperium we have had no other option isn't even really true.

"Look what they've made of our dream. This bloated, rotting carcass of an empire is driven not by reason and hope, but by fear, hate and ignorance. Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than lived to see this." - Roboute Guilliman.

Just look at how Goge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Vandire was able to get control of the Imperium the way he did.

[Echo2Omega]

If power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is not a cautionary tale then we are all doomed.

[Philokèkos]

Originally posted by EM-10:

Originally posted by Philokèkos:

The Imperium is what it is because there is no other option. Chaos would devour humanity if the Imperium ceased to be. That's what's inspirational about it : the readiness to sacrifice everything for the right to continued existence, even when it means being so overcome with fear that your society looks like hell. I don't want to live in the 40k universe and I do not hope such a society ever comes to exist, but I sure do hope my fellow humans and myself will be ready to display the same amounts of courage and stern resolve if our existence were to be threatened like it's the case in 40k. That's what the playerbase all too often neglects about 40k's hidden positivity.

The Imperium is what it is because corrupt populist despotic figures channeled up religious fervor and perverted society toward their own goals. Saying the Imperium we have had no other option isn't even really true.

"Look what they've made of our dream. This bloated, rotting carcass of an empire is driven not by reason and hope, but by fear, hate and ignorance. Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than lived to see this." - Roboute Guilliman.

Just look at how Goge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Vandire was able to get control of the Imperium the way he did.

Yes, exactly. And it was utterly unavoidable, because the Emperor all but died, remember ?

But still, that's not even the point. The point is, humanity is still around, and that's impressive. Or maybe it's not to you because you don't find it relatable, and that's okay too.

[A Bat From Wuhan]

"Why do I still live? What more do you want from me? I gave everything I had to you, to them. Look what they've made of our dream. This bloated, rotting carcass of an empire is driven not by reason and hope but by fear, hate and ignorance. Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than live to see this."

- Roboute Guilliman

Dude, the guy literally in charge of the Imperium thinks it's a steaming heap of ♥♥♥♥♥.

[Moon Punisher]

Originally posted by BlissDefiler:

strives towards a greater good

Mate, I will tell you a harsh reality.

Every single time someone has to say GREATER good, it is because whatever they are doing aint good. They are just justifying their evil. It is that simple.

And yes, the Imperium does evil ♥♥♥♥, ALL THE TIME. Now we can say ofc that it is the best case scenario, it is what it takes to not have humanity be wiped in a galaxy full of ♥♥♥♥... but yes, it is evil.

The reason I like the Imperium is because I can respect the good sides of it, but even the Space Marines, yes the ones we see in this game, start as child soldiers lols and mind you, child soldiers are the ones who live, a vast majority are just dead boys.

[Magni]

Originally posted by Philokèkos:

You can't use a single piece of a rulebook that's not even telling the whole story to refute arguments about the whole setting, especially when I wasn't making an argument about what 40k is but rather about what it means to us.

I can and I will. Also, it's not "a single piece of a rulebook", it is LITERALLY THE OPENING LINES OF THE ENTIRE SETTING, EVER SINCE THE SETTING EXISTED. These words are prefacing every single official Warhammer 40k novel ever written, every single rulebook released in every edition since 1987, and a vast body of other works compromising this setting. They are, quite literally, THE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE OF ALL OF 40k!

And you were were making factual statements, not hypotheticals about "what it means" to you personally. Kindly stop making such a dishonest excuse when your dumb takes are being called out as flying in the face of the entire setting over the entirety of its history.

I never said 40k was not dystopian, I said it was inspirational, and I was also referring to a recent statement from GW that read (quoting from memory) "we don't think the real world should look like 40k", which is exactly the kind of bs one feels compelled to say when under assault by hordes of woke commissars.

It's the kind of "bs" that anyone with more than a single working braincell should be agreeing with whole-heartedly. There's nothing "woke" about not wanting reality to be the utter dystopian nightmare that is the Imperium of Man.

The Imperium is what it is because there is no other option. Chaos would devour humanity if the Imperium ceased to be. That's what's inspirational about it : the readiness to sacrifice everything for the right to continued existence, even when it means being so overcome with fear that your society looks like hell. I don't want to live in the 40k universe and I do not hope such a society ever comes to exist, but I sure do hope my fellow humans and myself will be ready to display the same amounts of courage and stern resolve if our existence were to be threatened like it's the case in 40k. That's what the playerbase all too often neglects about 40k's hidden positivity.

This is cope. The Imperium is what it is through a consistent pattern of enormous amounts of callousness, incompetence and repeated massive mistakes going back all the way to the Emperor himself in its earliest days. A legacy that created a self-sustaining and self-reinforcing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is compelled by its very nature to continously dig itself deeper, while being set up to violently reject and in fact exterminate any kind of attempt at an alternative. It is NOT what it is because there's no other option. It is what it is because its rulers have chosen it to be such and continue to chose it to be such, negative consequences (such as the fact that it is ultimately self-defeating and has set itself onto a course of slow yet inescapable destruction) be damned.

[Nightfall]

The only good guys in the lore are the Necrons. All they want is to regain the flesh they lost, and they would like invaders off their lawn as well, thank you very much.

Of course, their lawn is the entire galaxy - but they do have a legit reason.