[ SPOILER ] So if you false claims about heresy you get promoted ?

[Huntard]

So Titus was proven innocent but still had to serve 100 years in BLACK SHIELD in the death watch

and the other who lied and who did not even respect the codex by snitching directly to the inquisition instead of his chaplain, was PROMOTED ?!

this is crazy stuff, is this common in the warhammer 40k universe or did the devs of space marine 2 not play the first one ?

it would have been much more logical for Titus to see Leandros become a servitor

[NITRO]

Becoming a Chaplain isn't necessarily a promotion. Youre denied of participating in battles, none of your battle brothers like you, you have no glory, nothing but being a mouth piece for the codex. Besides, we don't know what happened to Leandros during the past 200 years.

[Prof_Nekko]

one of teh theories I saw going around is that the Ultramarines couldn't exactly punish Leandros for reporting Titus to the inquisition for potential heresy since the inquisition would likely launch a much more aggressive probe into the chapter for engaging in retaliation. Which is something that most Space Marine chapters don't really want to work with.

As for why he was made chaplin. It was more likely that it capitalizes on his obsession with purity while also putting him in a position where he will not be interacting with the inquisition, since a chaplin handles matters of heresy internally and will be required to consult with the Reclusiarch. Basically it minimalizes the damage Leandros could cause, channels his personality into a role that matches it, and puts a greater scrutiny over his decisions.

[NITRO]

Originally posted by Grove of Dreams:

Leandros being in the game has nothing to do with his religiosity (there's no evidence he was religious, and most space marines aren't), nor with petty office politics ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (which his whining 100% was). It has everything to do with someone lacking talent at Saber Interactive and being desperate to have a tie-in with the first game. Can't be the hot guardswoman, she probably died the next day. Can't be a named Ultramarine, they blew that ticket on Calgar (since when do chapter masters show up for relatively routine Astartes ♥♥♥♥ like this?). Thus, Leandros is the only one left. It's stupid and a total misread of the audience.

That's such a salty way of reading the situation. "Someone being desperate to have a tie-in to the first game" uh, excuse me, we are literally playing as the protagonist of the first game and Leandros was really the only surviving character from it and Space Marines can easily live for hundreds of years, especially one in a non battle related position like Chaplain??? Besides pretty much the whole audience wanted to know what happened to that POS.

[Netaris]

Originally posted by Leandros Adeptus Snitchus:

so any dumb child barely out of his mother's womb can accuse his superior without the slightest consequence

Sounds like heresy to me. Preventing his brothers from purging xenos efficiently in the name of our God-Emperor is a sin. Lets purge this filthy traitor.

[Echo2Omega]

Spoiler.

You sever the emperor.

The emperors word is law.

Even if the word of the emperor comes from one of the emperors appointed servants.

Leandros is an appointed servant of the emperor.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Echo2Omega:

Spoiler.

You sever the emperor.

The emperors word is law.

Even if the word of the emperor comes from one of the emperors appointed servants.

Leandros is an appointed servant of the emperor.

You SEVER the Emperor? HERETIC! *Repeated bolter shots*

[Grove of Dreams]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Serving in the Black Watch is an honor and being a Black Shield a personal choice. Your chapter cannot make you go Black Shield.

In order to go Black Shield you need the permission of the Watch Commander of the Deathguard and you do so, because you do not wish to be associated with your Chapter in specific and the brotherhood of the Astartes in general.

First, it's the DEATHWATCH. Second, being a Blackshield has nothing to do with the Deathwatch and actually dates back to the Horus Heresy. Put simply, all it really means is there's some reason you will not -- or can not -- associate with your chapter. This could be because you are a lone survivor... or the chapter went rogue... or your group went rogue... or you failed catastrophically. Some chapters even use it effectively as exile.

The issue is that all loyalist chapters have pretty strong ties with the Deathwatch (some more than others), and ALL are proud to see their heraldry displayed amongst them. For an astartes to show up and refuse to give their origin can only mean bad things. The Watch Commander is then free to either accept or refuse them. Being accepted means they might find some honor again, or at least serve their purpose. Being refused means you are now lost, free to wander the stars, self delete, go rogue / chaotic, or become the dude-bro in some Rogue Trader's entourage.

Originally posted by Ishan451:

200 years are a long time to earn accolates. For all we know Leandros got punished and maybe their punishment was to be closely overseen by a Chaplain. If said Chaplain felt they showed particular zeal for the teachings of the Astartes and that is what Leandros did, it would not be surprising to see Leandros raising to the position.

Given the number of astartes known to have been still serving at 1200+ years, two centuries isn't nearly as long as you think it is. What's more, this is all speculation on your part regarding Leandros' punishment including ecclesiarchal reprimand.

Originally posted by Ishan451:

t is not uncommon. Chaplains are the most fanatical of the Astartes. It is kinda a requirement to become one to be a little coo coo for the coco pops, in order to get the position.

Codex Astartes != Cult of the Emperor. That's like saying "Well, you know, he always did try to follow the letter of the law. It's no wonder he became a fundamentalist brimstone preacher"

Originally posted by Ishan451:

[...]leave the Ultramarines, and not wishing to associate with other Astartes in general, after the perceived betrayal.

...you're aware the Titus lore is out there, right? Neither TItus believed he had betrayed the Ultramarines, nor did they believe he had betrayed them. The entire point was that he basically disappeared after the Inquisitor took him, and he was found basically by accident. He accepted the blackshield because he ASSUMED he had failed his chapter (else, why hadn't they come for him?). I mean hell, man, even Calgar explains this IN GAME.

Originally posted by Ishan451:

As we do not have the full text it is absolute speculation if there isn't something in the Astartes that makes it Leandros duty to inform the Inquisition. Especially, since the Inquisition was involved in the matter in the first place.

Except that we absolutely do have reason to think there's no such instruction. First, there is no evidence that the Codex Astartes was modified, updated, or altered in any way from its creation by Guilliman up to the Indomitus Era. As such, this text was created BEFORE the Ecclesiarchy, BEFORE the Inquisition, BEFORE the Ordos, and by a Primarch WHO UPHELD THE IMPERIAL TRUTH AND KNEW THROUGH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THE EMPEROR WAS FLESH AND BLOOD. There are NO grounds to believe the Codex would have any kind of religious content. Any powers the Ecclesiarchy may have come long, long after the Codex's creation. Again, Codex Astartes != Cult of the Emperor

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Grove of Dreams:

First, there is no evidence that the Codex Astartes was modified, updated, or altered in any way from its creation by Guilliman up to the Indomitus Era.

The codex was modified after the battle of Macgragge. That said it was in relations to tyranids and not religion :P

[Netaris]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

You SEVER the Emperor? HERETIC! *Repeated bolter shots*

That's not enough brother ! Here, take this melta charge to purify the entire area !

[Kain]

Originally posted by Leandros Adeptus Snitchus:

Originally posted by C4NNED:

Leandros didnt really lie about Titus he just came to the usual assumptions and made the accusations based on the evidence he had at that time. Which people in that universe would come to as well when you get face blasted by the raw power of the warp.

Leandros whine every single time about Titus not following the codex word by word

but Leandros completely violates the codex by not talking about it to his chaplain

Titus who already had 200 years of service at that time is disgraced by a young wanker who doesn't even have 100 years of service

and still being a real ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 200 years later...

it makes absolutely no sense

Leandros is personally angry with Titus from the first seconds of Space Marine 1 just for using the jetpack to destroy an Ork ship that was beating the balls of the Imperial guards on land

so any dumb child barely out of his mother's womb can accuse his superior without the slightest consequence

Violating the Codex is a small breach compared to a possibly corrupt Ultramarine Captain which is immune to raw chaos energy.

[Grove of Dreams]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Grove of Dreams:

First, there is no evidence that the Codex Astartes was modified, updated, or altered in any way from its creation by Guilliman up to the Indomitus Era.

The codex was modified after the battle of Macgragge. That said it was in relations to tyranids and not religion :P

So twice, 10,000 years after it was written... then again 200 years later when its author came back to life in the Indomitus Era. Both times not about religion.

I must say, though -- I was unaware of anything that gave any Ultramarine the right / authority to rewrite the codex.

[donder172]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by Leandros Adeptus Snitchus:

Leandros whine every single time about Titus not following the codex word by word

but Leandros completely violates the codex by not talking about it to his chaplain

Titus who already had 200 years of service at that time is disgraced by a young wanker who doesn't even have 100 years of service

and still being a real ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 200 years later...

it makes absolutely no sense

Leandros is personally angry with Titus from the first seconds of Space Marine 1 just for using the jetpack to destroy an Ork ship that was beating the balls of the Imperial guards on land

so any dumb child barely out of his mother's womb can accuse his superior without the slightest consequence

Violating the Codex is a small breach compared to a possibly corrupt Ultramarine Captain which is immune to raw chaos energy.

Not this time, however. This brought unwanted attention to the Ultramarines. If this Inquisitor wanted, it could've cost the Ultramarines the entire Second Company. Or even be branded Excommunicate Traitoris.

And it's not just a breach of the Codex Astartes, it's a breach of chain of command.

[Doomvora]

Originally posted by Leandros Adeptus Snitchus:

So Titus was proven innocent but still had to serve 100 years in BLACK SHIELD in the death watch

and the other who lied and who did not even respect the codex by snitching directly to the inquisition instead of his chaplain, was PROMOTED ?!

this is crazy stuff, is this common in the warhammer 40k universe or did the devs of space marine 2 not play the first one ?

it would have been much more logical for Titus to see Leandros become a servitor

Something something blackshield something something expunged

[EmperorVolo]

Originally posted by donder172:

Originally posted by Kain:

Violating the Codex is a small breach compared to a possibly corrupt Ultramarine Captain which is immune to raw chaos energy.

Not this time, however. This brought unwanted attention to the Ultramarines. If this Inquisitor wanted, it could've cost the Ultramarines the entire Second Company. Or even be branded Excommunicate Traitoris.

And it's not just a breach of the Codex Astartes, it's a breach of chain of command.

If every Chapter that came across Chaos was inspected to such a level there would be no Space Marines. NM that there are still governing bodies over Inquisitors who get to zealous. Being excessive brings in the Officio Assassinorum to retire Inquisitors that go too far.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Grove of Dreams:

I must say, though -- I was unaware of anything that gave any Ultramarine the right / authority to rewrite the codex.

It was after the Tyranids invaded the realm of Ultramar and killed the whole first company (In terminator armor) and severally wounded two other companies and almost killed the chapter master. Not to mention the damage done to the PDF equivalent (Ultramarine trained so likely elite guard level) and the worlds involved.

I think they might have seen some alterations to their tactics as a necessity for this one threat. Especially since Tyranids weren't a threat when Guilliman wrote the codex.

No idea if its been altered any more times. This one update/alteration/whatever is the only one i know of.

As to who gave them the "right". Guilliman himself told them to not follow the codex as a holy writ or something, a lesson they seems to forget most of the time but headed in this one case.