I-Frames on gun-strikes:

[Kozak]

Source: Dev first Q&A: Gun-strikes are a risk/reward action, and it is very easy to spam. We specifically did not put an i-frame on it for balancing reasons, and we are not looking to change this intention.

Translation: For a small risk of getting one shot on higher difficulties you will be rewarded with 1 armor segment. Out of touch with reality.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Publicado originalmente por Bills💊Pills:

Worried about "balancing" in a power fantasy from another universe. Tbh im starting to think these guys have no place making a game like this.

Honestly, I kind of a agree.

The game was marketed as a power fantasy. In one interview, a dev even went so far as to call us "invincible."

What we got was a Souls in 40k skin.

invincible compared to regular humans, described from the point of view of a regular human, hence you can collide with traitor guards to make them explode

halo is very inspired by 40k, see halo for example of what augmented human in tin can is like
"they're tough, but they ain't invincible" - some guy who knew what the ladies like

You are in fact invincible when you trigger and properly chain executions.
The invincibility you get from correct application of skill and steel in mankind's uphill struggle is the power fantasy for this game, not brainlessly stroll through entire horde of enemy - that cheapens the win(which in the grand scheme of things does not matter).

[Hexagoros]

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Honestly, I kind of a agree.

The game was marketed as a power fantasy. In one interview, a dev even went so far as to call us "invincible."

What we got was a Souls in 40k skin.

invincible compared to regular humans, described from the point of view of a regular human, hence you can collide with traitor guards to make them explode

halo is very inspired by 40k, see halo for example of what augmented human in tin can is like
"they're tough, but they ain't invincible" - some guy who knew what the ladies like

You are in fact invincible when you trigger and properly chain executions.
The invincibility you get from correct application of skill and steel in mankind's uphill struggle is the power fantasy for this game, not brainlessly stroll through entire horde of enemy - that cheapens the win(which in the grand scheme of things does not matter).

Bullet sponge enemies are about the most brainless way to make enemies difficult - and the devs went all in on bullet sponge enemies.

Also, there is nothing new, unique, or special about forcing "skillful play" through making the player character have the durability of a wet paper bag. We've all "been there done that" a million times by now. This was "not" marketed as a Souls-like where you die in two hits. If I wanted another go at Souls-gameplay, I'd replay Elden Ring (which honestly I enjoyed a lot more than this game).

And I really don't care about your take on the lore - sorry, not sorry. There is nothing you can say that will make me believe a crap-tier Gaunt can survive 3 bolt rounds to the body. There's nothing you can say that will make me believe a Tyranid Warrior can survive a FULL MAG of bolt rounds TO THE HEAD.

Gameplay-wise, enemies die faster in Darktide, and the player-characters can take more of a punch in Darktide. And yet GW gave as much approval to Darktide as it did to Space Marine 2. And I'd wager that Plague Zombies and Chaos Ogryns are way more of a threat to Darktide's rejects than Gaunts and Warriors are to Space Marines.

Just a guess.

Beyond that, gameplay-wise, there is nothing "invincible" feeling about these player characters (the Space Marines). The enemies take way too much damage, which makes the Space Marines and their weapons feel weak. The Marines die way too quickly, which makes the marines feel brittle.

[CHAO$$$]

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Gameplay-wise, enemies die faster in Darktide, and the player-characters can take more of a punch in Darktide. And yet GW gave as much approval to Darktide as it did to Space Marine 2. And I'd wager that Plague Zombies and Chaos Ogryns are way more of a threat to Darktide's rejects than Gaunts and Warriors are to Space Marines.

^this guy is an apologist for cheating on the darktide forum
just for context

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

invincible compared to regular humans, described from the point of view of a regular human, hence you can collide with traitor guards to make them explode

halo is very inspired by 40k, see halo for example of what augmented human in tin can is like
"they're tough, but they ain't invincible" - some guy who knew what the ladies like

You are in fact invincible when you trigger and properly chain executions.
The invincibility you get from correct application of skill and steel in mankind's uphill struggle is the power fantasy for this game, not brainlessly stroll through entire horde of enemy - that cheapens the win(which in the grand scheme of things does not matter).

Bullet sponge enemies are about the most brainless way to make enemies difficult - and the devs went all in on bullet sponge enemies.

Also, there is nothing new, unique, or special about forcing "skillful play" through making the player character have the durability of a wet paper bag. We've all "been there done that" a million times by now. This was "not" marketed as a Souls-like where you die in two hits. If I wanted another go at Souls-gameplay, I'd replay Elden Ring (which honestly I enjoyed a lot more than this game).

And I really don't care about your take on the lore - sorry, not sorry. There is nothing you can say that will make me believe a crap-tier Gaunt can survive 3 bolt rounds to the body. There's nothing you can say that will make me believe a Tyranid Warrior can survive a FULL MAG of bolt rounds TO THE HEAD.

Gameplay-wise, enemies die faster in Darktide, and the player-characters can take more of a punch in Darktide. And yet GW gave as much approval to Darktide as it did to Space Marine 2. And I'd wager that Plague Zombies and Chaos Ogryns are way more of a threat to Darktide's rejects than Gaunts and Warriors are to Space Marines.

Just a guess.

Beyond that, gameplay-wise, there is nothing "invincible" feeling about these player characters (the Space Marines). The enemies take way too much damage, which makes the Space Marines and their weapons feel weak. The Marines die way too quickly, which makes the marines feel brittle.

You're just angry that you didn't understand the lore. Not sorry, not sorry.

This isn't a souls-like, nothing one or two-shot you beside your own melta bomb or something, unlike in darktide where an overhead can in fact oneshot some people. Then go play elden ring, nobody's forcing you to play this game on higher difficulties or at all.

There's no one forcing you to use undertiered weapon on higher difficulties.

Darktide absolutely make enemies more bullet spongy, in fact you can spend multiple magazines doing headshot on a crusher if you didn't have a decent armor penetrating weapon or rending perks. What you are doing is essentially complaining about auric level enemies being sponges while using the minimum power grey weapon you start the game with. Darktide rejects mostly face human-type enemies. Space Marines face tyranids and csm/chaos, not the same level of threat.

You forgot the part where space marines explode chaos human on collision and shrug off uncharged las.

[Hexagoros]

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Darktide rejects mostly face human-type enemies. Space Marines face tyranids and csm/chaos, not the same level of threat.

So a Tyranid Warrior poses more of a threat to a Space Marine than a Carapace Armored Chaos Ogryn does to a Guardsmen Sharpshooter?

Are you sure about that?

Also, Darktide is "literally" about facing Chaos, and not 'just' humans, we regularly fight demons, chaos spawn, and d-hosts.

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Darktide absolutely make enemies more bullet spongy, in fact you can spend multiple magazines doing headshot on a crusher if you didn't have a decent armor penetrating weapon or rending perks. What you are doing is essentially complaining about auric level enemies being sponges while using the minimum power grey weapon you start the game with.

So you're saying enemies are bullet sponges because Relic Weapons in Space Marine 2 are the equivalent of grey-tier weapons in Darktide?

That sounds like poor design.

[Damage Case]

Publicado originalmente por Harlequin:

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Honestly, I kind of a agree.

The game was marketed as a power fantasy. In one interview, a dev even went so far as to call us "invincible."

What we got was a Souls in 40k skin.

And not even a good Souls-like.

Honestly, when I see a gigantic Black Templar rolling around the map like Sonic the Hedgehog with a horde after him, I can't but think that Sigismund would never approve of certain mechanics this game has. It is only my opinion but, I have the impression that Saber failed big time to capture the essence of the Space Marines. And, this is due to various bad designed game mechanics. Just my thoughts...

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Publicado originalmente por Hexagoros:

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Darktide rejects mostly face human-type enemies. Space Marines face tyranids and csm/chaos, not the same level of threat.

So a Tyranid Warrior poses more of a threat to a Space Marine than a Carapace Armored Chaos Ogryn does to a Guardsmen Sharpshooter?

Are you sure about that?

Also, Darktide is "literally" about facing Chaos, and not 'just' humans, we regularly fight demons, chaos spawn, and d-hosts.

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Darktide absolutely make enemies more bullet spongy, in fact you can spend multiple magazines doing headshot on a crusher if you didn't have a decent armor penetrating weapon or rending perks. What you are doing is essentially complaining about auric level enemies being sponges while using the minimum power grey weapon you start the game with.

So you're saying enemies are bullet sponges because Relic Weapons in Space Marine 2 are the equivalent of grey-tier weapons in Darktide?

That sounds like poor design.

False equivalence.

"mostly"
You made an attempt at pointing out some of the least lore accurate part of darktide, congratulations.

So you're saying you have trouble killing enemies with relic weapons in trivial?
That sounds like skill issue.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Publicado originalmente por Damage Case:

Publicado originalmente por Harlequin:

And not even a good Souls-like.

Honestly, when I see a gigantic Black Templar rolling around the map like Sonic the Hedgehog with a horde after him, I can't but think that Sigismund would never approve of certain mechanics this game has. It is only my opinion but, I have the impression that Saber failed big time to capture the essence of the Space Marines. And, this is due to various bad designed game mechanics. Just my thoughts...

You don't need to roll around. Rolling's primary function is to enable the use of dash attack while also moving backward relatively quickly, usually when parry fails. A perfect dodge here and there is just icing on the cake.

I'm all for devs to limit the roll spam if it looks too silly but then you would just complain harder.

[Apothecary Michael]

I don’t like gunstrike at it’s current state. I play Assult with power hammer. Most of the time I am swarmed by little guys. Doing heavy Attacks to Stun them let me lose more than using light attacks, specifically with a few big ones in the group. The funny part with the Warriors for example is you get a gunstrike symbol and when you push the button, they attack you an cancel the whole strike.
Than as Assult you get multiple perks at low level who are forcing you to use gunstrike.
I don’t even want to use the gunstrike at all.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Publicado originalmente por Waffenbruder:

The funny part with the Warriors for example is you get a gunstrike symbol and when you push the button, they attack you an cancel the whole strike.

Just because you have a jetpack that doesn't mean you have to land right in middle of enemy horde.

[M4N]

Publicado originalmente por Waffenbruder:

I don’t like gunstrike at it’s current state. I play Assult with power hammer. Most of the time I am swarmed by little guys. Doing heavy Attacks to Stun them let me lose more than using light attacks, specifically with a few big ones in the group. The funny part with the Warriors for example is you get a gunstrike symbol and when you push the button, they attack you an cancel the whole strike.
Than as Assult you get multiple perks at low level who are forcing you to use gunstrike.
I don’t even want to use the gunstrike at all.

Current state is "intentional game design". SM2 is one of the worst coop PvE games i've ever played in terms of balance. And Saber are just delusional.

[Damage Case]

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Publicado originalmente por Damage Case:

Honestly, when I see a gigantic Black Templar rolling around the map like Sonic the Hedgehog with a horde after him, I can't but think that Sigismund would never approve of certain mechanics this game has. It is only my opinion but, I have the impression that Saber failed big time to capture the essence of the Space Marines. And, this is due to various bad designed game mechanics. Just my thoughts...

You don't need to roll around. Rolling's primary function is to enable the use of dash attack while also moving backward relatively quickly, usually when parry fails. A perfect dodge here and there is just icing on the cake.

I'm all for devs to limit the roll spam if it looks too silly but then you would just complain harder.

Ah, no? what you don't seem to catch (voluntarily or not) is that the whole game design suffers lots. This wasn't supposed to be a Souls-like game, even more, a bad one at that. Everyone is pointing out that it is unacceptable for your armour to go out in nanosecs because it gets eaten from the little bastards that keep jumping on you. Say what you want about parrying the horde (and I apply this move always-the game forces me to do so) but, in the end of the day, you'll find yourself always with depleted armour and health really low. Everyone finds unacceptable that bolters feel like they don't do any serious damage (and, don't try to talk about headshots-you can't headshot a whole horde coming against you. Also, try to headshot a warrior with a bolter carbine and see if it works. I'll tell you: it doesn't). Strangely enough, the devs said that bolters are working properly. So, in one hand, we have weapons that do not inflict any serious damage and, on the other hand, we have spongy enemies (even the little ones) that tear away your armour. No wonder then that melta weapons is the meta and everyone goes by using them. And, I will not even talk about the pinpoint accuracy of the little bastards that shoot you relentlessly from the other side of the map. The game has serious balancing issues and this is a fact. As I said before: paper-thin armour will not make you feel exactly like being Sigismund. It makes you feel like an idiot if ever.

[Apothecary Michael]

Publicado originalmente por Nobody watches your TTV:

Publicado originalmente por Waffenbruder:

The funny part with the Warriors for example is you get a gunstrike symbol and when you push the button, they attack you an cancel the whole strike.

Just because you have a jetpack that doesn't mean you have to land right in middle of enemy horde.

You should first learn to read and understand texts before you answer something out of context.
Gunstrikes can be done be every class. In the quoted part I complain about a tyranid warrior. I parry he gets gunstrike symbol. I push Button for gunstrike, gunstrike animation is cancelled because same warrior attacks me… Happens often enough, that I push the parry button now. And that works better to survive.
So please explain how did you connect the dots from that to jumping blindly in big groups of enemies?

[Bolodenka1902[Tönt]]

Publicado originalmente por Evoc:

Publicado originalmente por Kozak:

Source: Dev first Q&A: Gun-strikes are a risk/reward action, and it is very easy to spam. We specifically did not put an i-frame on it for balancing reasons, and we are not looking to change this intention.

Translation: For a small risk of getting one shot on higher difficulties you will be rewarded with 1 armor segment. Out of touch with reality.

there should be no I-frames on gunstrikes, the game would become a cakewalk on ruthless difficulty. I can spam gunstrikes non stop if i want and would be invincible. At first I was on board with i-frames, then I realized they were right, its too easy to spam. Besides, I very rarely lose my armor right away after gunstrikes, learn how and when to use them. Of course if you just sit there mashing buttons hitting every gun strike you can and will be punished. Just because you get a gunstrike, doesnt mean you should take it. Sounds like a skill issue.
(I have 3 classes maxed, only play ruthless difficulty, and have never died in a mission before. Besides the first few hours ive played.)

This is likely a lie, you'll almost always lose the armor *during* the gunstrike unless you're 1v1.

[FemBoy_420]

Gunstrikes at higher difficulties are 50/50 slightly helpful to straight up killing you. The risk/reward is no where near comparable and the devs response pretty much shows they have no clue how to play at higher difficulties. Very concerning for the future.