Nerf Vanguard

[Ragmund]

What it says. It's just broken. I dunno, nerf his jump of dmg or whatever. It is way too impactfull in comarison to other classes. A close second would be the scout, but he's more or less okay. Tacticals, buwarks & assaults are totally fine.

Also, the devastator is a mess. An amazing class in PvE and total waste versus players. I understand their tactical role in theory, but the maps are too small, ttk too low, dynamics too high for them to be an actual asset to the team. More shield? More accuracy? Something along those lines probably.

I'm myself playing as tactical, so it's not personal issue, just an observation. MvP is almost always a vanguard, with heavy dudes the underdogs.

What do you guys think? Is it just me or have you noticed something similar? Or is it just my experience?

[Jimmy MacReady]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

The only valid point I saw here is the one that my vision might be subjective due to vanguard being a hard-counter for the tactical I mainly play. That said, its not that valid because no other class in the game has a 'hard-counter' that can't be fought 1v1 regardless of player skills and combat situation. No other class has a skill with a hitscan-based control abilities that last for eternity. And no class should have something like that in a game with such a low time-to-kill ratio.

Hopefully, other players would also bring this to the devs' attention and it will be looked into.

Heavys Iron Halo makes them invincible and forces close quarters to come in and then get melted by a melta.

Though you did have the balls to admit that your take is flawed because you believe vanguards a hard counter for tac which I vehemently disagree with. Kudos to you at least for admitting it.

Tactical can switch weapons to a melta and take out a vanguard easy. Couple that with the auspex and you can track down that vanguard even if he uses the hook to go up hard to reach ambush places.

Though I don't think vanguards should be nerfed as that brings everything else higher in power by comparison. Just FYI I am a heavy main so theres no agenda here.

[🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Originally posted by 🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧:

Have you considered working as a team with your battle brothers

*mucho text*

if you have a problem with vanguard then wait till you see the assault

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by 🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧:

Originally posted by Ragmund:

*mucho text*

if you have a problem with vanguard then wait till you see the assault

Dude, I've played a couple dozens of matches and seen them all. I'm not 'pro mega klla' and I know it when I lose because I'm less skilled than my opponent. That said, every other class is a fair deal and a duel of skill. I have no problems with any other class kit. I've said it here a million times already, so I'd just assume you're trolling me right now.

[puRe]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

The only valid point I saw here is the one that my vision might be subjective due to vanguard being a hard-counter for the tactical I mainly play. That said, its not that valid because no other class in the game has a 'hard-counter' that can't be fought 1v1 regardless of player skills and combat situation.

Bulwark hard-counters the Heavy.

Originally posted by Ragmund:

No other class has a skill with a hitscan-based control abilities that last for eternity.

Neither does the Vanguard.

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Hopefully, other players would also bring this to the devs' attention and it will be looked into.

I think people with that much skill issues are the minority.

Have you tried playing the Vanguard to understand the class?

Originally posted by Ragmund:

For tenth time: the need to counter one character with muliple characters is bad balance. Tell me honestly: you're playing a vanguard yourself? :D

For the tenth time: The Vanguard is the hard-counter against solos that run around like headless chicken. That's his purpose and that is perfectly fine.

I do play Vanguard, besides Sniper and Bulwark.
Every other class is just at rank 2 for now.

[R̸̫̻͚̾̕M̸̼̙͔͋̕̚T̵]

Just play something else and don't complain I have no problem against the Vanguard Nerfs = Game of Death.

[Jimmy MacReady]

Originally posted by puRe:

Bulwark hard-counters the Heavy.

Can confirm as heavy main, only way as heavy to bait bulwark out of guard is grenade and/or flanking.

[pi73r]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Originally posted by 🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧:

Have you considered working as a team with your battle brothers

The overall gameflow and my personal win rate or whatnot is not the point of this thread. Somehow no one actually discusses the problem of the overpowered class mechanics, talking about how can one avoid them. Which is weird, because people on Reddit, for example, don't have any problem with seening the imbalance issue. While here on steam everyone is oh-so-powerful cyber champion showing how HE has no problems, hence no one's allowed discuss them under a threat of death sentense via public shaming.

Grow up, guys. Seriously.

The only valid point I saw here is the one that my vision might be subjective due to vanguard being a hard-counter for the tactical I mainly play. That said, its not that valid because no other class in the game has a 'hard-counter' that can't be fought 1v1 regardless of player skills and combat situation. No other class has a skill with a hitscan-based control abilities that last for eternity. And no class should have something like that in a game with such a low time-to-kill ratio.

Hopefully, other players would also bring this to the devs' attention and it will be looked into.

P.S. Yes, I play with my team. And yes, all said above is NOT about teamfights. Which does NOT make the problem of balance go away.

Lol i and others have proven why he's not that OP and you just dismissed it. Talking about growing up xD

[Jimmy MacReady]

Originally posted by pi73r:

Lol i and others have proven why he's not that OP and you just dismissed it. Talking about growing up xD

He ignores actual advice/feedback on countering vanguard and jumps on gaslighting/insulting people because its easy to. OP has never actually played any other class to substantiate his viewpoint.

Its basically "I play tactical please nerf vanguard because hard counter" when vanguard isn't even a hard counter.

[pi73r]

Btw. If you wondered what's the actual tier list (assuming it's a team game and everyone playing to win) would be (based on vanilla weps, I haven't played too long) :
S tier: Bulwark
A tier: Tac, Heavy/Vanguard, Scout
B tier: Assault

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by Hydran Agent:

Originally posted by pi73r:

Lol i and others have proven why he's not that OP and you just dismissed it. Talking about growing up xD

He ignores actual advice/feedback on countering vanguard and jumps on gaslighting/insulting people because its easy to. OP has never actually played any other class to substantiate his viewpoint.

Its basically "I play tactical please nerf vanguard because hard counter" when vanguard isn't even a hard counter.

Whatever. Have fun, kids. This here is obviously a wrong place to discuss anything game-related. Please, feel free to return to the 'should warhammer be more gay or not' threads, don't let me disturb you.

[vXViper]

I have not played vanguard ever in the game yet. But you sir is why we can't have nice things ^^ just complaining.. talk about we buffing assault insteed so I can own even more then I currently do ^^

[Jimmy MacReady]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Whatever. Have fun, kids. This here is obviously a wrong place to discuss anything game-related. Please, feel free to return to the 'should warhammer be more gay or not' threads, don't let me disturb you.

Ayo theres been multiple times that its been brought up about your points about vanguard. If you prefer to be confrontational/gaslighting and choose not to take information on a thread you set up yourself asking for opinions.

Answer this then, have you played any other class?

[pi73r]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Originally posted by Hydran Agent:

He ignores actual advice/feedback on countering vanguard and jumps on gaslighting/insulting people because its easy to. OP has never actually played any other class to substantiate his viewpoint.

Its basically "I play tactical please nerf vanguard because hard counter" when vanguard isn't even a hard counter.

Whatever. Have fun, kids. This here is obviously a wrong place to discuss anything game-related. Please, feel free to return to the 'should warhammer be more gay or not' threads, don't let me disturb you.

Admitting defeat so easily? That's not how how Space Marines go.

[FlynnTheFearless]

Originally posted by Jooby:

Originally posted by valium:

Are you talking about pvp? Because Vanguard is a tier below Heavy and Tactical in pve.

Pretty certain its for PVP. I don't see any reason to nerf Vanguard in PVE at all

He would'nt call out PvE in a rant about PvP. Not to mention he's listing classes that don't exist in PvE. Least nothing I've heard of.

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by pi73r:

Originally posted by Ragmund:

Whatever. Have fun, kids. This here is obviously a wrong place to discuss anything game-related. Please, feel free to return to the 'should warhammer be more gay or not' threads, don't let me disturb you.

Admitting defeat so easily? That's not how how Space Marines go.

Should I just play along the collective trolling? Thanks, I'll pass. None of my arguments was answered, they were just discarded with 'nah, skill issue'. I just don't see any point in going in circles. As I've said, a quick search has shown that I'm not the only one thinking there's a problem with Vanguard kit. Hopefully, this will be adressed. What's more there is to discuss here?

Codex Astartes does not approve feeding the trolls. You guys have done well. You have overwhelmed me with numbers. But know this, my dudes: the stain of trolling never completely fades. I'll be watching you, should I be proven right by devs sharing my views on the balance, I'll show no mercy.