Nerf Vanguard

[Ragmund]

What it says. It's just broken. I dunno, nerf his jump of dmg or whatever. It is way too impactfull in comarison to other classes. A close second would be the scout, but he's more or less okay. Tacticals, buwarks & assaults are totally fine.

Also, the devastator is a mess. An amazing class in PvE and total waste versus players. I understand their tactical role in theory, but the maps are too small, ttk too low, dynamics too high for them to be an actual asset to the team. More shield? More accuracy? Something along those lines probably.

I'm myself playing as tactical, so it's not personal issue, just an observation. MvP is almost always a vanguard, with heavy dudes the underdogs.

What do you guys think? Is it just me or have you noticed something similar? Or is it just my experience?

[valium]

Are you talking about pvp? Because Vanguard is a tier below Heavy and Tactical in pve.

[Jooby]

The stun on Vanguard just lasts too long. You get stunned when the grapple hits you then once again when they actually connect. By yourself in a 1on1, you'll rarely even get close to winning the duel unless they royally ♥♥♥♥ it, and its something that requires absolutely no skill for them to pull off.
If they at least had a hard counter, like for example Bulwark not getting stunned by the grapple (they still wouldn't be able to do any damage without dropping shield to shoot/melee), I don't think the issue would be that bad, cause it would instead promote team play.

[Jooby]

Originally posted by valium:

Are you talking about pvp? Because Vanguard is a tier below Heavy and Tactical in pve.

Pretty certain its for PVP. I don't see any reason to nerf Vanguard in PVE at all

[HUNGER]

You'll have to nerf the Bulwark shield, and Sniper Cloak + SMG grenade combos.

Just get better. Stick with your team which is what the PvP design encourages.

We don't want nerfs. Nerfs kill games gg get good

[Yagger]

don't go out alone

[HUNGER]

Originally posted by Jooby:

The stun on Vanguard just lasts too long. You get stunned when the grapple hits you then once again when they actually connect. By yourself in a 1on1, you'll rarely even get close to winning the duel unless they royally ♥♥♥♥ it, and its something that requires absolutely no skill for them to pull off.
If they at least had a hard counter, like for example Bulwark not getting stunned by the grapple (they still wouldn't be able to do any damage without dropping shield to shoot/melee), I don't think the issue would be that bad, cause it would instead promote team play.

The vanguard is a bullet sponge that can pack a punch with two successful stun attacks. A good sniper counters the vanguard in the field. Bulwark counter the Vanguard as well. Vanguard is ineffective against a team that is unified. No nerfs. Learn to play better or find solid team mates if you're looking for a more competitive experience

[HUNGER]

Originally posted by Yagger:

don't go out alone

This exactly

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by valium:

Are you talking about pvp? Because Vanguard is a tier below Heavy and Tactical in pve.

Yes. Its all about PvP.

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by Yagger:

don't go out alone

Sometimes it happens. Also, that's not exactly a solution - if you need a couple of dudes to fight one dude.

[pi73r]

Originally posted by Voyagers Revenge:

Originally posted by Jooby:

The stun on Vanguard just lasts too long. You get stunned when the grapple hits you then once again when they actually connect. By yourself in a 1on1, you'll rarely even get close to winning the duel unless they royally ♥♥♥♥ it, and its something that requires absolutely no skill for them to pull off.
If they at least had a hard counter, like for example Bulwark not getting stunned by the grapple (they still wouldn't be able to do any damage without dropping shield to shoot/melee), I don't think the issue would be that bad, cause it would instead promote team play.

The vanguard is a bullet sponge that can pack a punch with two successful stun attacks. A good sniper counters the vanguard in the field. Bulwark counter the Vanguard as well. Vanguard is ineffective against a team that is unified. No nerfs. Learn to play better or find solid team mates if you're looking for a more competitive experience

what do you mean a bullet sponge? Pretty sure he's the squishiest.

[silverSif]

Vanguard is a glasscannon. No need to nerf. Be thankful he doesn't have Melta Rifle in PvP.

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by Voyagers Revenge:

You'll have to nerf the Bulwark shield, and Sniper Cloak + SMG grenade combos.

Just get better. Stick with your team which is what the PvP design encourages.

We don't want nerfs. Nerfs kill games gg get good

Ah, yes, 'git betah' response in a game balance thread. Classic. Thank you, what should've I done without this advice. Obviously, the fact that I see what class obliterates my teammates has everything to do with my skill issue.

[Jooby]

Originally posted by Voyagers Revenge:

The vanguard is a bullet sponge that can pack a punch with two successful stun attacks. A good sniper counters the vanguard in the field. Bulwark counter the Vanguard as well. Vanguard is ineffective against a team that is unified. No nerfs. Learn to play better or find solid team mates if you're looking for a more competitive experience

I respect what youre saying but half the time your team will be full of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who go run off in different directions. When Im playing with my mates, we always stick together and will win most matches because of it. Otherwise, its really dependant on the type of players you end up with and team composition.

Bulwark also isnt a counter to vanguard. They get 3 charges of the grapple which will pull Bulwark out of their shield, and they can get 2 hits in before the stun wears off (Source: I main Bulwark).

Theres nothing wrong with nerfs as long as they make sense. People who genuinely believe nerfs ruin games are usually the ones abusing whatevers broken at the time.

[puRe]

Originally posted by Ragmund:

What do you guys think? Is it just me or have you noticed something similar? Or is it just my experience?

It's just you and a handful of other people who made similar posts. It often feels like people are being salty because they met a good Vanguard player.

The Vanguard is fine and he only does what he's supposed to do, namely use his grapnel launcher to attack where nobody expects you and disrupt and take out solo players that are not with their team.

He's squishy and has a limited weapon selection. He even lost his Melta in PvP.
If he misses his grapnel and hits a wall behind, because you dodged it, he's dead before he reaches you.
If he grapnels while you're not alone, he's dead before he reaches you.
If you're solo and he catches you off guard, you deserve to be at a disadvantage, because that's his purpose.
Think of him as the assassin. Hit and run, strike from the shadows and zip out again before people know what's going on.

So stay with your team and keep your eyes open, that way the Vanguard is an easy target.

[Ragmund]

Originally posted by silverSif:

Vanguard is a glasscannon. No need to nerf. Be thankful he doesn't have Melta Rifle in PvP.

Would be a valid point should this game have a bigger ttk. With the difference between tactiacal and vanguard being one of two bullets they can take his 'squishiness' does not really show. While the ability to disable an enemy for a couple of seconds, on the contrary, shows very much.