Vanguard with Melta Rifle is the best. Change my mind.

[Z405]

In my experience, the Vanguard armed with a Melta Rifle is simply unmatched. I’ve consistently managed to solo Ruthless difficulty with ease using this setup, paired with a fencing Chainsword/Combat Knife, and the Duellist and Honed Reactions perks. And when I say solo, I mean truly solo—those AI bots on private hardly offer any real support, so it often feels like I’m playing entirely on my own.

With this build, the Vanguard can tear through enemies effortlessly, like a hot knife through butter. There’s no other class that allows me to achieve the same level of efficiency. While the Heavy may boast a Multi-Melta, it lacks both fencing weapons and the perks that make the Vanguard’s parry capabilities so dependable. The Tactical class may also have access to the Melta Rifle, but again, it’s missing those essential fencing perks, and neither of them offers the Vanguard's grappling hook, which is invaluable for repositioning. On the other hand, the Assault Marine’s Jump Pack is fun, but its ranged weapons leave much to be desired, and the Dash should have replaced the dodge by default.

This is why I firmly believe that the Vanguard with the Melta Rifle, a fencing Chainsword/Combat Knife, and the Duellist and Honed Reactions perks stands miles above the rest. I’m not saying this to brag—many of you likely already know this. Instead, I’m pointing out that, in comparison, the other classes feel vastly underpowered. The difference is stark. It almost feels as though the developers have missed the mark on balancing the combat experience. /surprisedpikachuface

How would you boost the other classes to make them feel on the same level as this Vanguard?

[Dragon]

Idk man. Plasma Incinerator heavy can shoot at the ground while walking forward and pretty much solo the game.

All in all, Melta is the problem not a class by any means. Vanguard has some great perks - all of the classes have great perks though.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Howell-Barrex Soldier Ja'kala:

Grenade launcher Tactical is stronger mostly because the Grenade launcher does way to much damage.

Originally posted by Dragon:

Idk man. Plasma Incinerator heavy can shoot at the ground while walking forward and pretty much solo the game.

All in all, Melta is the problem not a class by any means. Vanguard has some great perks - all of the classes have great perks though.

It appears that you're both focusing on a single weapon, which doesn't fully account for the broader tactical elements such as fencing and repositioning. Neither the Melta Rifle, Grenade Launcher, nor Heavy Plasma Incinerator will instantly eliminate Majoris or higher-tier enemies on Ruthless. As a result, you'll need to rely heavily on your parrying and repositioning abilities, which unfortunately do not match the same level of efficiency as those of the Vanguard.

[Ziel]

Vanguard is super strong that's true. Melta has the power of cleaving and stoping ennemies, dagger hook combo allow to kill majoris at a quick rate and hook alone offers a good mobility into the swarm. Plus all the perk you've mentionned offer a high survivabilty.

Vanguard has few downsight, he lacks of armor, two are not enough when you miss a dodge on lictor or equivalent. He's also dependent from execution to constantly refresh hook cooldown and regenerating life.

When you're used to parry a fencing weapon is more than enough.
Assault has a very high survivabilty too thanks to his capacity to constantly regenarate armor and overall better melee damage. Their mobility is comparable, probably a bit better for the assault.

On the other hand, tactical has a way better long range damage with his grenade launcher/ auspex combo. Overall he's the only one who deal easily with minors to terminus while both vanguard and assault will suffer against the latter.

So vanguard is definitely is a very strong overall to solo, but is still think that tactical is above, assault is debatable.

[Sifer2]

Maybe you can use the hook better than me. More often than not I find it just gets you into trouble, and once swarmed it will probably just lock on the wrong thing anyway. Tactical ends up feeling superior with Grenade Launcher or Melta, and the Auspex does huge damage.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by Howell-Barrex Soldier Ja'kala:

Grenade launcher Tactical is stronger mostly because the Grenade launcher does way to much damage.

Originally posted by Dragon:

Idk man. Plasma Incinerator heavy can shoot at the ground while walking forward and pretty much solo the game.

All in all, Melta is the problem not a class by any means. Vanguard has some great perks - all of the classes have great perks though.

It appears that you're both focusing on a single weapon, which doesn't fully account for the broader tactical elements such as fencing and repositioning. Neither the Melta Rifle, Grenade Launcher, nor Heavy Plasma Incinerator will instantly eliminate Majoris or higher-tier enemies on Ruthless. As a result, you'll need to rely heavily on your parrying and repositioning abilities, which unfortunately do not match the same level of efficiency as those of the Vanguard.

Actually yes, with the right perk setup, you can delete an entire group of Majoris enemies with 1 charged plasma shot with the relic Plasma Incinerator. Well, 1 is a misnomer, 1 will put them into execution state, another will kill them.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Ziel:

Vanguard has few downsides, his lack of armor, two are not enough when you miss a dodge on Lictor or equivalent. He's also dependent from execution to constantly refresh hook cool-down and regenerating life.

When you're used to parry a fencing weapon is more than enough. Assault has a very high survive-abilty too thanks to his capacity to constantly regenerate armor and overall better melee damage. Their mobility is comparable, probably a bit better for the assault.

On the other hand, Tactical has a way better long range damage with his Grenade Launcher / Auspex combo. Overall he's the only one who deal easily with Minoris to Terminus while both Vanguard and Assault will suffer against the latter.

So Vanguard is definitely is a very strong overall to solo, but is still think that Tactical is above, Assault is debatable.

Thus far, I can't say I've missed the lack of 1 pip of armor to be honest, especially not when you're in the thick of it, Melta blasting, Parrying and Executing enemies. Plus, missing a Parry, due to Duelist and Honed Reactions become almost nigh impossible.

Not gonna lie tho, never tried the Grenade Launcher. It felt super weak when I used it for the first time, so I couldn't be bothered to level up that weapon. Might give it a try.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Sifer2:

Maybe you can use the hook better than me. More often than not I find it just gets you into trouble, and once swarmed it will probably just lock on the wrong thing anyway. Tactical ends up feeling superior with Grenade Launcher or Melta, and the Auspex does huge damage.

In crowded overwhelmed situations, it does get tricky yes. Under such circumstances I just spray and pray with the Melta to create Execution options, which I use to look around while the animation plays out, to find a target I can hook towards to for a better position.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Dragon:

Actually yes, with the right perk setup, you can delete an entire group of Majoris enemies with 1 charged plasma shot with the relic Plasma Incinerator. Well, 1 is a misnomer, 1 will put them into execution state, another will kill them.

Interesting. I've yet to level up the Heavy Plasma Incinerator to max. I found the Heavy Bolter aesthetically more appealing and when trying the Plasma on the Heavy, I wasn't really sold on it. Might giving it a try then.

[Orfin]

Every class is pretty OP on 20+ level, even assault is good when you get armor regen, +100 % jump strike damage and -10% jump pack CD on kill.
Fencing perks are not required, just fencing weapon is more then enough.
It's just meltas are good straight from grey quality, so may be nerf them or move essential perks closer to level 1

[Z405]

Originally posted by Orfin:

Every class is pretty OP on 20+ level, even assault is good when you get armor regen, +100 % jump strike damage and -10% jump pack CD on kill.
Fencing perks are not required, just fencing weapon is more then enough.
It's just meltas are good straight from grey quality, so may be nerf them or move essential perks closer to level 1

You're not wrong here. Melta Rifle made life a lot better from the start. Plus the Combat Knife gets Fencing at weapon level 2, as well as the Duelist perk which is at class level 3. For a fresh player, these are must haves imho to learn the ropes.

[Z405]

Originally posted by Howell-Barrex Soldier Ja'kala:

The Grenade Launcher can kill 3+ majoris with 2 Grenades it can fire those 2 grenades incredibly fast and it has a capacity of 11 grenades and combines with the tactical perk to refund all missing grenades every 30 seconds, as such it can kill ~15ish majoris every 30 seconds.

Well that's... news.

Sounds interesting!

[valium]

Vanguard with the melta is a great addition to any team due to their ability to essentially stun lock entire waves. It does have a downside, ammo economy. Tactical/Heavy/Sniper can get their ammo back easily enough, Vanguard has to be more conservative with their ammo.

[McDinglefart]

Heavy with heavy plasma incendiator followed by tactical and then sniper are strongest classes. Anything else is a B tier. When I see other classes join me in mission 2, I know it'll be a struggle.
When I see tactical in my heavy's party or even better, both, tactical and sniper, I know it'll be easy mode.
Anything else... Vanguard followed by an Assault are useless kind of trash tier.

Heavy is best because while he lacks ability to clutch, he instead makes sure the situation is never that bad. 5 majoris in a group. 2 shots = boom. Most of them are in dying mode. And heavy as great against both tyranids and chaos. Jack of all trades, master of all. Heavy plasma incendiator and plasma pistol are strongest weapons in the game and heavy can use both. Heavy's double stomping ability is best melee ability in the game. It is a guaranteed gunstrike and armor recovery. Heavy just has everything.

Tactical has auspex which makes runs/boss fights easier and can hold his own against group of majoris and minoris with his parry auspec perk. Tactical melta is strong, but lacks boss dmg because of range/ammo and melta doing meh damage. Plasma incendiary is ok with tactical. Only option bolter gun for secondary is kind of meh. Chainsword is ok. Tactical struggles against chaos. I've clutched many times against minoris army and like 5-8 majoris focused on me while my party is dead, holding my ground until party recovery many times.
But melee is slow. Tactical has ups and downs, that's why it is a second strongest class because heavy is just good at everything except being a clutch/holding his own against army of swarm, but heavy's role is to prevent situations like that from happening by mass murdering everything on screen. I had several runs with my tactical where I clutched runs with it through massive waves of enemies and thought "well... that wouldn't had happened if I was playing heavy".

Sniper is just good addition to quickly killing bosses and such.

Bulwark is ok I guess. It sucks to have it on mission 2 for boss as it is only good for melee and most of them fail to do any good dps and quickly die in melee. But I tolerate them as distraction for my heavy allowing it to support team with superior artilerry from the back.

Vanguard and Assault both are only useful for interrupting majoris calls for backup, but other than that, worst classes. Never noticed anything special about them and if you have both in your party, runs will be harder than usual, especially boss killing in decapitation mission 2.

[McDinglefart]

Originally posted by Z405:

Originally posted by Dragon:

Actually yes, with the right perk setup, you can delete an entire group of Majoris enemies with 1 charged plasma shot with the relic Plasma Incinerator. Well, 1 is a misnomer, 1 will put them into execution state, another will kill them.

Interesting. I've yet to level up the Heavy Plasma Incinerator to max. I found the Heavy Bolter aesthetically more appealing and when trying the Plasma on the Heavy, I wasn't really sold on it. Might giving it a try then.

I have max heavy with all weapons at max.
Heavy bolter is ok, multi melta is strong, but heavy plasma incendiator is just best. Good range and can kill group of majoris in 2-3 charged shots.

If you're talking about plasma incendiator for tactical, it's fine. Does good single range dmg. I prefer it over melta. Using melta on tactical makes visibility bad and parrying harder, but I always get most kills/range dmg most if the time with it.
But with melta you're kind of useless VS extremis/bosses etc. and that matters a lot.
I can melee majoris/minoris armies with melee, even if it takes longer.

Plasma incendiator is nice to soften majoris before parry and gunstrike.

[ZEXTION [TH]]

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