injustice to Space Marine 1 and Firstborn

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

prologue

the prologue was a blatant jab at Firstborn (and thru which also Space Marine 1), pushing the message that it takes a single tyranid warrior to kill a Firstborn, and that an outstanding Firstborn like Titus (who bested such a powerful traitor Firstborn as Nemeroth despite being worn down by his rubric marines) can be defeated by some carnifex just because he fought a couple of hormagaunts and tyranid warriors beforehand.

these jabs were thrown to show how Primaris lack such inadequacies Firstborn have... inadequacies which were clearly not present in Space Marine 1, and were made up in Space Marine 2. i understand that GW has a need to push Primaris on top of Firstborn, but making up Firstborn inadequacies that didn't exist just to achieve it feels disrespectful, inappropriate, and unnecessary. why not highball Primaris abilities and leave Firstborn as they were instead of downplaying them?

jabbing at Firstborn to promote Primaris

not giving Primaris such a crucial survivability tool as swordsman's zeal perk Firstborn have in Space Marine 1 doesn't exactly feel like highballing Primaris, but rather another tool of retconning Firstborn into being horrible. not to mention how the player is forced to play with Primaris bots (if not having 3 players) which are absolutely useless despite being "so superior to Firstborn", which further pushes Firstborn downplaying narrative. somehow the great superior Primaris have to spend so much time to kill a hormagaunt (because of how adequately weak their anemic strikes are), and somehow guardsmen (literally NORMAL humans) constantly win in close combat with them with their "dive back and shoot" animation, further jabbing at Firstborn thru Primaris performance. the game's campaign also pushes the message that Primaris instantly die from an explosion that's too weak to tear them apart or even lift them off the ground. you can even notice dead Primaris marine (or once even 2) without a single tyranid corpse laying around. it's like the game says "sure, Primaris are quite weak... but at least they are stronger than FIRSTBORN HAHAHA AM I RIGHT?".

what feels like yet another jab at Firstborn is how Thousand Sons (chaos marines) are so immensely weak in comparison to tyranids and daemons. it seems like Saber Interactive is pushing the message that 3 Primaris marines can take on dozens of Firstborn... especially considering how weak Thousand Sons sorcerers are to them, which supposed to be the most powerful of all sorcerers.


(it's all part of a broader point i made in a thread here)


praise the Emperor

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

The_Dipl0mat님이 먼저 게시:

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

of course you portray yourself as "aware" for your collective, while desperately attempting to misportray referring to your intentional misinterpretation as incorrect as "referring to quote as incorrect".

"...the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again"

yes, and obviously it's just an ogryn, not possibly capable of caving a terminator helmet beyond a slight dent, unless you intentionally misportray the amount of caving to a degree that's impossible for ogryn's hits to achieve

[The Devil]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

The_Dipl0mat님이 먼저 게시:

"...the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again"

yes, and obviously it's just an ogryn, not possibly capable of caving a terminator helmet beyond a slight dent, unless you intentionally misportray the amount of caving to a degree that's impossible for ogryn's hits to achieve

No offence to your great intellect oh wise being, but for something to cave in it must collapse.

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

The Devil님이 먼저 게시:

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

yes, and obviously it's just an ogryn, not possibly capable of caving a terminator helmet beyond a slight dent, unless you intentionally misportray the amount of caving to a degree that's impossible for ogryn's hits to achieve

No offence to your great intellect oh wise being, but for something to cave in it must collapse.

yes, that's how cavings/dents are made in the materials. they internally collapse or internally compress. is there something incomprehensible to you?

[The Devil]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

The Devil님이 먼저 게시:

No offence to your great intellect oh wise being, but for something to cave in it must collapse.

yes, that's how dents are made. is there something incomprehensible to you?

If something is dented by pressure it means it has been overcome and a continuation of the same force will most likely result in further compaction. Though I've also never seen someone use caved in to describe a dent. I have seen the use of "started to cave" to describe a dent though.

[ihatevnecks]

This weirdo's definition of a cave in would be a bit of dust falling to the ground.

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

ihatevnecks님이 먼저 게시:

This weirdo's definition of a cave in would be a bit of dust falling to the ground.

and this mediocracy's definition of a cave in would be a specific distance of indentation, rather than an amount defined by the context... only as long as it suits the anti-astartes propaganda of course

[King Arthur]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

ihatevnecks님이 먼저 게시:

This weirdo's definition of a cave in would be a bit of dust falling to the ground.

and this mediocracy's definition of a cave in would be a specific distance of indentation, rather than an amount defined by the context

The context was literally it being crushed, you tourist dolt

[The Devil]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

ihatevnecks님이 먼저 게시:

This weirdo's definition of a cave in would be a bit of dust falling to the ground.

and this mediocracy's definition of a cave in would be a specific distance of indentation, rather than an amount defined by the context... only as long as it suits the anti-astartes propaganda of course

I think you meant mediocre, also cave in is usually a synonym for total collapse so no specific distance needed.

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

King Arthur님이 먼저 게시:

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

and this mediocracy's definition of a cave in would be a specific distance of indentation, rather than an amount defined by the context

The context was literally it being crushed, you tourist dolt

the context of something incapable of crushing it (ogryn hitting a terminator helmet) must mean that something impossible is happening (ogryn crushing it)? i was clearly giving way too much credit to your intellectual level even if it's just an act for audience

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

The Devil님이 먼저 게시:

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

and this mediocracy's definition of a cave in would be a specific distance of indentation, rather than an amount defined by the context... only as long as it suits the anti-astartes propaganda of course

I think you meant mediocre, also cave in is usually a synonym for total collapse so no specific distance needed.

i meant mediocracy, an opposite of a weirdo. totality is not a part of a definition, but rather a tool of forcefully making the word suit the propaganda of this collective.

[The Devil]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

King Arthur님이 먼저 게시:

The context was literally it being crushed, you tourist dolt

the context of something incapable of crushing it (ogryn hitting a terminator helmet) must mean that something impossible is happening? i was clearly giving way too much credit to your intellectual level even if it's just an act for audience

So you are questioning the authors authority in the series or the canon status of the book?

[ihatevnecks]

He would absolutely break down in tears actually seeing the tabletop stats.

An ogryn with a knife? Strength 8 attack, 6 toughness, 5+ save, 6 wounds. An assault marine would need a thunder hammer or power fist to reach Strength 8, and they're still only a 4T, 3+Sv, and 2W. The ogryn, with a knife, hits harder than a space marine using anything less than a thunder hammer/power fist, has a better chance of soaking that same damage, and taking more of it.

Now lets take his earlier "astartes shred tanks in melee statement." A leman russ battle tank has an 11T, 2+Sv, and 13W. This means the assault marine mentioned above would need to roll a 5+ on their D6 just to deal a single wound.

Again: the ogryn is doing as much damage to the tank with a knife as an assault marine with a thunder hammer.

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

The Devil님이 먼저 게시:

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

the context of something incapable of crushing it (ogryn hitting a terminator helmet) must mean that something impossible is happening? i was clearly giving way too much credit to your intellectual level even if it's just an act for audience

So you are questioning the authors authority in the series or the canon status of the book?

i literally yield to his authority by interpreting thing properly, according to context he himself put in the book. would you call interpretating "caved in the mountain by hitting it with pickaxe" as making a caving insignificant relatively to the mountain's size as "questioning author's authority"? no. doing the opposite would be questioning it by ignoring the whole context. a misinterpretation.

[BROTHER PHOBOS]

ihatevnecks님이 먼저 게시:

He would absolutely break down in tears actually seeing the tabletop stats.

An ogryn with a knife? Strength 8 attack, 6 toughness, 5+ save, 6 wounds. An assault marine would need a thunder hammer or power fist to reach Strength 8, and they're still only a 4T, 3+Sv, and 2W. The ogryn, with a knife, hits harder than a space marine using anything less than a thunder hammer/power fist, and has a better chance of soaking that same damage, and taking more of it.

Now lets take his earlier "astartes shred tanks in melee statement." A leman russ battle tank has an 11T, 2+Sv, and 13W. This means the assault marine mentioned above would need to roll a 5+ on their D6 just to deal a single wound.

Again: the ogryn is doing as much damage to the tank with a knife as an assault marine with a thunder hammer.

which proves how much of a lore discreditation source tabletop is, you activist who has to project their obscene distress onto better than themselves

[ihatevnecks]

Brother Phobos님이 먼저 게시:

which proves how much of a lore discreditation source tabletop is, you activist who has to project their obscene distress onto better than themselves

Translation: "which just proves how much the tabletop source discredits everything I've claimed as some freak online roleplayer."

Tabletop came first. Tabletop informs the lore, and even more importantly, the lore exists for one primary purpose: to fuel sales of the tabletop.

That is the business Games Workshop are in. They are a tabletop wargaming company. That always has been, and likely always will be, their core concern. Everything else is supplemental to that.