Will You Even Feel Like A Strong Primaris Space Marine? I Fear You Will Die Too Quickly In PVP

[MagnusFarseeR]

I would say Primaris Marines should be at least 1.5x stronger in terms of Armor/how much punishment they can take than regular space marines.

Judging from videos, it looks like you die too quickly.

I would say the standard issue bolt rifle is around as strong as the Halo CE Magnum from Halo 5, a game you can only play on Xbox One/Xbox One X/Xbox Series X.

https://youtu.be/TkwBxcDwVoo?t=286

I am pretty sure it takes 3 individual rounds (shots) from this weapon to down a Spartan. Obviously space marines are stronger than UNSC Spartans in terms of how much punishment they can take and Primaris Space Marines should be even stronger.

A regular Space Marine it should take at least 6 shots and a Primaris Marine 9 shots. I have Space Marine 1 but I hardly played it due to playing other games so often so I don't remember how the multiplayer is.

I fear this game isn't gonna have any noticeable difference between damage in PVP compared to Space Marine 1, you will still be downed/die from the same number of standard bolter shots in the first space marine game.

[Eidrog]

The game should be balanced so that it's fun.
I'm sure the power fantasy of being a primaris marine, while maybe not 100% accurate to the lore, is going to be great. : )

[Silhouette]

Bolt Rifles are literally rapid fire grenade launchers. XD

They're WAY more powerful than that Halo magnum. ;)

The "power-creep" in Warhammer 40k is non-sensical. lol

[MagnusFarseeR]

Originally posted by Silhouette:

Bolt Rifles are literally rapid fire grenade launchers. XD

They're WAY more powerful than that Halo magnum. ;)

The "power-creep" in Warhammer 40k is non-sensical. lol

Standard Bolt Rifles in terms of fire power are not more powerful than the Halo CE Magnum in Halo 5. The Halo CE Magnum in Halo 1 (I think) and Halo 5 are large pistols , they are basically equal to a Phobos pattern Bolt Pistol.

https://www.halopedia.org/M6D_magnum

A Bolt Rifle would just have a higher fire rate.

[BingusDingus]

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

Originally posted by Silhouette:

Bolt Rifles are literally rapid fire grenade launchers. XD

They're WAY more powerful than that Halo magnum. ;)

The "power-creep" in Warhammer 40k is non-sensical. lol

Standard Bolt Rifles in terms of fire power are not more powerful than the Halo CE Magnum in Halo 5. The Halo CE Magnum in Halo 1 (I think) and Halo 5 are large pistols , they are basically equal to a Phobos pattern Bolt Pistol.

https://www.halopedia.org/M6D_magnum

A Bolt Rifle would just have a higher fire rate.

Uh, dude, bolt rifles are literally portable cannons, they fire .75 cal projectiles.

[MrSoul]

They have exact same stats in table top. Days of primaris being an upsell to players are long gone.

[Doomvora]

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

I would say Primaris Marines should be at least 1.5x stronger in terms of Armor/how much punishment they can take than regular space marines.

Judging from videos, it looks like you die too quickly.

I would say the standard issue bolt rifle is around as strong as the Halo CE Magnum from Halo 5, a game you can only play on Xbox One/Xbox One X/Xbox Series X.

https://youtu.be/TkwBxcDwVoo?t=286

I am pretty sure it takes 3 individual rounds (shots) from this weapon to down a Spartan. Obviously space marines are stronger than UNSC Spartans in terms of how much punishment they can take and Primaris Space Marines should be even stronger.

I Regular Space Marine it should take at least 6 shots and a Primaris Marine 9 shots. I have Space Marine 1 but I hardly played it due to playing other games so often so I don't remember how the multiplayer is.

I fear this game isn't gonna have any noticeable difference between damage in PVP compared to Space Marine 1, you will still be downed/die from the same number of standard bolter shots in the first space marine game.

Nice bait.

[The_Dipl0mat]

OP, you're referencing the wrong magnum. It'd be the M6G, as its what was present in Halo: Combat Evolved. It served to dominate multiplayer and was essentially "the" pick back then due to it's busted nature. Your concern of PvP is null, as there is no balanced way to approach that in a PvP way. Thus it remains up to sound design and visual design to carry along the message of playing as a Primaris Marine. Primarily visual, as that's the primary aspect of a Primaris in differences from the firstborn

EDIT: Not to mention the M6G serves more along the lines of a regular humans bolter, which is notably weaker than an Astartes bolter. The comparison you've crafted is DOA

[MagnusFarseeR]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

OP, you're referencing the wrong magnum. It'd be the M6G, as its what was present in Halo: Combat Evolved. It served to dominate multiplayer and was essentially "the" pick back then due to it's busted nature. Your concern of PvP is null, as there is no balanced way to approach that in a PvP way. Thus it remains up to sound design and visual design to carry along the message of playing as a Primaris Marine. Primarily visual, as that's the primary aspect of a Primaris in differences from the firstborn

EDIT: Not to mention the M6G serves more along the lines of a regular humans bolter, which is notably weaker than an Astartes bolter. The comparison you've crafted is DOA

No I did not, the Pistol I linked is the same one in the Halo 5 Guardians Warzone game mode video.

You are also wrong about the bolt pistol being weaker than the standard Bolt Rifle, of course some bolt pistols might be less powerful depending on he ammunition type and velocity but the standard Bolt pistol is the same. It even says it in the lore.

"A Bolt Pistol magazine carries only 6 to 10 rounds of standard Bolter Ammunition, each weighing about 0.08 kilograms and with a diameter of . 75 calibre (19.05 millimetres). The pistol is able to fire either a single shot or a short, three-round burst with each pull of the trigger."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_pistol


"The Bolt Pistol is a smaller handheld version of the venerable Bolter"

[Oku]

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

Originally posted by Silhouette:

Bolt Rifles are literally rapid fire grenade launchers. XD

They're WAY more powerful than that Halo magnum. ;)

The "power-creep" in Warhammer 40k is non-sensical. lol

Standard Bolt Rifles in terms of fire power are not more powerful than the Halo CE Magnum in Halo 5. The Halo CE Magnum in Halo 1 (I think) and Halo 5 are large pistols , they are basically equal to a Phobos pattern Bolt Pistol.

https://www.halopedia.org/M6D_magnum

A Bolt Rifle would just have a higher fire rate.

A standard bolt rifle fires .75cal rocket-propelled mass-reactive armor-penetrating high-explosive rounds that delay their blast for a split second after impact so that the round is inside the target when it detonates with the force of a modern frag grenade, equipped with a diamantine penetrator tip that can pierce most known alloys like butter and a deuterium core with several times the density of lead to add massive kinetic energy to the continuously-accelerating projectile being propelled by its own on-board gyro rocket system.

The M6G fires a .50cal FMJ lead projectile loaded with plastic explosive out of a 6 inch barrel.

Master Chief is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cool and I love Halo but he's not even in the same universe as 40k when it comes to power scaling lol

[The_Dipl0mat]

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

OP, you're referencing the wrong magnum. It'd be the M6G, as its what was present in Halo: Combat Evolved. It served to dominate multiplayer and was essentially "the" pick back then due to it's busted nature. Your concern of PvP is null, as there is no balanced way to approach that in a PvP way. Thus it remains up to sound design and visual design to carry along the message of playing as a Primaris Marine. Primarily visual, as that's the primary aspect of a Primaris in differences from the firstborn

EDIT: Not to mention the M6G serves more along the lines of a regular humans bolter, which is notably weaker than an Astartes bolter. The comparison you've crafted is DOA

No I did not, the Pistol I linked is the same one in the Halo 5 Guardians Warzone game mode video.

You are also wrong about the bolt pistol being weaker than the standard Bolt Rifle, of course some bolt pistols might be less powerful depending on he ammunition type and velocity but the standard Bolt pistol is the same. It even says it in the lore.

"A Bolt Pistol magazine carries only 6 to 10 rounds of standard Bolter Ammunition, each weighing about 0.08 kilograms and with a diameter of . 75 calibre (19.05 millimetres). The pistol is able to fire either a single shot or a short, three-round burst with each pull of the trigger."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_pistol


"The Bolt Pistol is a smaller handheld version of the venerable Bolter"

The Halo 5 experience is borderline useless if you're attempting to use previous guns from the Halo series in it. And for the sake of your own comparison, the M6G present in Halo: Combat Evolved is more apt than the M6G you're peddling here. Especially considering its gameplay environment.

I never said anything about the bolt pistol being weaker than the bolt rifle. I said the M6G is more comparable to a bolt pistol used by an average human. Which is canonically weaker than any wielded by an Astartes. The reason being that if they used an Astartes bolter, they'd suffer severe damage just by firing it due to the intense recoil.

As such, the M6G is weaker than the bolt pistol that an Astartes makes use of. Another flaw is that there isn't any logical reason to make a difference between Firstborn and Primaris in a PvP scenario beyond cosmetic. As it'd create an unnecessary difference in power between the two and tilt the overall balance for no reason.

[zastcat]

as diplomat points out damage in pvp isn't exactly where you should be looking to "feel" like a primaris, pvp damage is about game balance not lore accuracy (heck even the campaign and operations damage are going to be more about balancing around difficulty levels than giving a 100% accurate portrayal of the weapons according to the lore)

also it's not exactly the best of ideas to just make a 1:1 assumption of weapons between franchises, especially not a franchise where portrayals are as variable as 40k, keep in mind that the "weak" lasgun has been portrayed doing things like blasting off limbs in a single hit (and not even a longlas or a hotshot lasgun) or acting more like a heavy machine gun than an assault rifle equivalent, in addition there's the fact that the material science between both settings is different and without actually understanding all the properties, advantages, and disadvantages of the materials involved a true comparison can't be made without large flashing "this is an assumption" sign on just about every part even before getting into the fact that the closer comparison if we ignored that would be a human sized bolt pistol rather than an astartes bolt pistol or that the standard ammunition for both weapons functions very differently

then consider that your pistol comparison for halo is based on a balance choice that literally became a meme and that they proceeded to walk back with later entries, to bring that back to the lore issue, you're trying to science out "how many shots should it take to kill a primaris before they still feel as tough as you think they should be" using game balance from a different game mixed with generalized ideas of relative toughness

to be fair there are absolutely communities out there that will math this stuff out, but they tend to put very big restrictions on what information is actually valid to use for it and just "these are the same caliber according to lexicanum and halopedia" would probably start a screaming match in those

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

No I did not, the Pistol I linked is the same one in the Halo 5 Guardians Warzone game mode video.

You are also wrong about the bolt pistol being weaker than the standard Bolt Rifle, of course some bolt pistols might be less powerful depending on he ammunition type and velocity but the standard Bolt pistol is the same. It even says it in the lore.

"A Bolt Pistol magazine carries only 6 to 10 rounds of standard Bolter Ammunition, each weighing about 0.08 kilograms and with a diameter of . 75 calibre (19.05 millimetres). The pistol is able to fire either a single shot or a short, three-round burst with each pull of the trigger."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_pistol


"The Bolt Pistol is a smaller handheld version of the venerable Bolter"

The Halo 5 experience is borderline useless if you're attempting to use previous guns from the Halo series in it. And for the sake of your own comparison, the M6G present in Halo: Combat Evolved is more apt than the M6G you're peddling here. Especially considering its gameplay environment.

I never said anything about the bolt pistol being weaker than the bolt rifle. I said the M6G is more comparable to a bolt pistol used by an average human. Which is canonically weaker than any wielded by an Astartes. The reason being that if they used an Astartes bolter, they'd suffer severe damage just by firing it due to the intense recoil.

As such, the M6G is weaker than the bolt pistol that an Astartes makes use of. Another flaw is that there isn't any logical reason to make a difference between Firstborn and Primaris in a PvP scenario beyond cosmetic. As it'd create an unnecessary difference in power between the two and tilt the overall balance for no reason.

Not to mention Chaos Marines are often running on Warp Juice and are just physically stronger and meaner than Firstborn Marines in general, at least on a 1-to-1, both-combatants-are-unnamed-chaff basis. If anything I would expect Primaris Marines versus Chaos Marines to be more evenly matched.

[GingerAvenger]

NERDS! lol

[Black Magic]

Originally posted by MagnusFarseeR:

I would say Primaris Marines should be at least 1.5x stronger in terms of Armor/how much punishment they can take than regular space marines.

Judging from videos, it looks like you die too quickly.

I would say the standard issue bolt rifle is around as strong as the Halo CE Magnum from Halo 5, a game you can only play on Xbox One/Xbox One X/Xbox Series X.

https://youtu.be/TkwBxcDwVoo?t=286

I am pretty sure it takes 3 individual rounds (shots) from this weapon to down a Spartan. Obviously space marines are stronger than UNSC Spartans in terms of how much punishment they can take and Primaris Space Marines should be even stronger.

A regular Space Marine it should take at least 6 shots and a Primaris Marine 9 shots. I have Space Marine 1 but I hardly played it due to playing other games so often so I don't remember how the multiplayer is.

I fear this game isn't gonna have any noticeable difference between damage in PVP compared to Space Marine 1, you will still be downed/die from the same number of standard bolter shots in the first space marine game.

Nope.

Even in lore, Astartes, regardless of Primaris status, die like fodder against opponents of equal zeal and parity.

Chaos Marines are not regular Astartes. Or rather, the ones you get to play in the PvP hail from the most Chaos-warped legions.

[SpiffyMussel]

I think id rather have a power fantasy as a firstborn marine over a primaris marine any day.
The firstborn marines don't look as generic and sterile as a primaris marines. For a game that lauds itself in having tons of customization options you cant use any armor pieces firstborn marines used due to size differences. I was more looking forward to the chaos marine customization more due to my dis interest in the primaris space marines, but we all know how much customization there will be there. Anyway, chaos marines and primaris marines will most likely be on equal footing for balancing reasons. It would be unfair if anyone on the primaris team could take and dish out more damage with no benefits to the chaos side. I don't think you could simulate a chaos marines 10,000 years of combat experience that would give them an edge in the game against there primaris foes.