Vanguard without Melta is... meh...

[gnotheo]

I know, maybe discounting melta is disingenuous. But melta is just too boring after a while.

Other two primary weapon for vanguard are trash. People hyped me up for three burst round rifle, but they are quite bad. The other occulus is widely considered as the worst gun in current game so...

Assault Marines get a lot of ridicule for how their perks don't work with each other. Vanguard's perks are two times worse.

Only perks sort of work together are grappling execution, but that sucks. One, I don't like to steal execution from teammates, so I rarely ever use grappling to take execution from distance. So proper way to use it is to shoot at elites from distance then take execution? That just doesn't seem necessary since you can just shoot it to death, or just let other teammate to take the kill to gain armor when you likely didn't really have to take hits from distance.

Another way I can think of is to take all tanky variants? But taking hits with 2 armor "light" class seems sub optimal. Assault can do this much better with 3 armors and armor boosting perks. Using precious health to be more aggressive just doesn't seem like a good trade.

If I was to build tanky vanguard, then I would have to build it for AoE chainsaw to properly take advantage of it. But again, that is such counter intuitive to what the class is going for, and Assault just does it much better with thunder hammer.

Grappling hook is fun, yeah. But again, Assault can pretty much do the same thing with much more damage up front.

I guess I am just giving flowers to assault as much as criticizing vanguard. Only reason why Vanguard is considered better is melta and melta alone. Take that away, and Assault is better in every regards.

[Kristian]

Originally posted by gnotheo:

I know, maybe discounting melta is disingenuous. But melta is just too boring after a while.

Other two primary weapon for vanguard are trash. People hyped me up for three burst round rifle, but they are quite bad. The other occulus is widely considered as the worst gun in current game so...

I find the 3-round burst good for picking off smaller ranged enemies. Its decent when you need to help taking down zoantropes and the neurothrope. For warriors, its better to go into melee. And yeah, the 3rd primary weapon is SO bad

[Magni]

Instigator is great at picking off all the ranged chaff before you grapple in to assassinate elites. Vanguard perks are fantastic for playing that way, what with the great sustain in melee (increased parry windows, healing from killing Majoris etc.) paired with good buffs to the grapple and some nice team benefits, and the combat knife being arguably the best melee weapon in the game for dueling elites.

Also, as a high-level Vanguard you're the guy who should get a larger portion of executions, because you're the guy that straight up heals from Majoris+ melee kills and as such you getting executes means everyone else can get more of the stimms.

[Sycarius]

vanguard if very good, you'Re suppose to go melee with a fencing weapon. with the right skills you are almost unkillable in melee, +50% dodge and +50% perfect parry window, execution on majoris heals you for 10%. its the best melee damage dealer in the game.

[Giηルキ]

Originally posted by Sycarius:

vanguard if very good, you'Re suppose to go melee with a fencing weapon. with the right skills you are almost unkillable in melee, +50% dodge and +50% perfect parry window, execution on majoris heals you for 10%. its the best melee damage dealer in the game.

Also Carbine kinda shreds majoris post-grapple, making it easy to stun > burst > execute.

[Kao]

If vanguard only had life regen on exec and +50% PP window perks, I would still main it.
Instigator is fine, occulus is indeed dogwater.

[Kira]

I really like vanguard. It is mostly CQC, but very mobile. I think that the knife and the chainsword are both fantastic weapons. I only use the knife on vanguard though since I'm pigeon-holed into chainsword when I go tactical.

The balance relic knife has major speed and the "+50 AOE left and right skullcrusher" allows the knife attacks to hit a lot of minoris enemies very quickly. That takes care of the need for melta AOE. Spamming light attacks at majoris is really fast and high dps, yet still allows you to dodge when a red attack comes out.

With the instigator for longer range, you can cover a lot of areas effectively. Oculus is only for the memes.

[Slavbringer57]

Honestly, I just wish he could get Marksman Carbine, it feels like it'd compliment the assassin-adjacent aspect perfectly.

I never bothered taking melta, as being in a lobby with a melta spammer makes the game boring for me, or makes it harder if it's someone crutching with it.

Instigator is okay enough, but I have a personal distaste for burst-fire weapons. But I'm in gold tier instigators, and warriors don't even start flashing orange/yellow after a full mag (with about half hitting the head).

His grapple executions also need a tune up, lock it in far earlier than it does now. On the rare occurence I get a chance to use it, the target dies before I arrive, let alone lock in the animation.

[L O]

I hardly ever play my Vanguard with Melta, carbine and a very in your face kinda of play style. the Melta has its uses, but it becomes so boring using it all the time and seeing others playing with it all of the time.

[Gundalf]

Vanguard has the problem that most of its perks are useless. Melta Tactical outcompetes Melta Vanguard too such degree it is not even funny and without melta vanguard is the worst class. This video explains pretty well why vanguards perks are bad.

https://youtu.be/QVYWJ_ap9qU?si=kz3N44kKzSpxZU7r

[ganjou241]

Originally posted by Gundalf:

Vanguard has the problem that most of its perks are useless. Melta Tactical outcompetes Melta too such degree it is not even funny and without melta vanguard is the worst class. This video explains pretty well why vanguards perks are bad.

https://youtu.be/QVYWJ_ap9qU?si=kz3N44kKzSpxZU7r

The guy in the video is bad. 10% melee buff to majoris is huge breakpoint lmfao, 50% parry window is for using balanced weapons, cooldown on executions works on minoris (even their jump attacks) and getting multiple majoris down to incap takes fewer braincells than he has IQ. 10% range damage resist on dive kick with a heavy with an appropriate aura in your team is like 40% range damage resist 50% with a resist bulwark banner, stack that with ranged damage resist on the chain sword and you will laugh off sniper shots.

Really low IQ guy. (EDIT: LMAO the guy paused comments! Next time do math instead of games LMFAO)

[L O]

Originally posted by Gundalf:

Vanguard has the problem that most of its perks are useless. Melta Tactical outcompetes Melta too such degree it is not even funny and without melta vanguard is the worst class. This video explains pretty well why vanguards perks are bad.

https://youtu.be/QVYWJ_ap9qU?si=kz3N44kKzSpxZU7r

On the flip side watch this and no no Melta.

https://youtu.be/spZYCxZGj54?si=OjbEPAgp4nLu3JCM

[Xeonzs]

Meltas are just lame, too easy and boring after a while I agree, but the other 2 carbines aren't that bad once you level'd them up, the rapid fire one is great for horde clear due to it's extra target penetration perk and the burst one is great for headshot damage.
Besides most of the time you should be in melee, so they only exist to fill the gap.
One of the most powerful classes in the game imho.

[Metalsiren IXI]

Originally posted by Gundalf:

Vanguard has the problem that most of its perks are useless. Melta Tactical outcompetes Melta too such degree it is not even funny and without melta vanguard is the worst class. This video explains pretty well why vanguards perks are bad.

https://youtu.be/QVYWJ_ap9qU?si=kz3N44kKzSpxZU7r

Vanguard still a beast in melee and can refill its own HP though.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Originally posted by Gundalf:

Vanguard has the problem that most of its perks are useless. Melta Tactical outcompetes Melta too such degree it is not even funny and without melta vanguard is the worst class. This video explains pretty well why vanguards perks
are bad.

https://youtu.be/QVYWJ_ap9qU?si=kz3N44kKzSpxZU7r

Strange as I would not class myself as some amazing gamer, so when I speak about this it is not some God tier gamer telling everyone to "get gud".

I am probably average,

I started with Heavy, then Tactical and then Vanguard. The Vanguard is the best class in game, I feel powerful when using it.
I still prefer the heavy because I love the bolter but Vanguard is top tier best class I have played so far and the perks are mostly amazing and really help the class. It feels like the most impactful perk tree.

Honestly not sure what this guy is talking about.

[Medicles]

Vanguard can heal himself through Majoris executions. That perk alone is worth more than 90% of all perks in the game.